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How to Defeat a Liberal in a Debate

JP Hochbaum said:
Let me know when the two are separate and your question will have merit.
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Let me know if your perspective matters. Because if you don't believe that your own perspective matters...then who am I to second guess you?
 
Xerographica said:
Is there an economic equation for how many times you'll reply to this thread? Is the benefit of engaging in debate entirely economic in nature? What motivates you to engage me in discussion? Is somebody paying you?
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No, and I fail to see how this has anything to do with the discussion. Just because I choose to debate here does not mean that this is the most efficient use of my time.

How in the world do people know to make donations to non-profit organizations?
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Well, non-profit organizations provide many public goods, such as their own social and healthcare services. People know to make donations because there are donation drives and public campaigns to push for donations.

Again...why does your perspective matter in the for-profit sector and the non-profit sector....but not in the public sector?
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I explained this to you already. I did not say it does not matter. After all, people's perspectives are represented through their elected representatives in the legislature. But your argument that people know how to efficiently allocate their resources through direct payments to government bureaucracies is flawed.
 
Xerographica said:
Let me know if your perspective matters. Because if you don't believe that your own perspective matters...then who am I to second guess you?
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If my perspective were to matter, and it does, according to the amount of people I could influence with it, you would still be able to second guess me.
 
Xerographica said:
Let me know if your perspective matters. Because if you don't believe that your own perspective matters...then who am I to second guess you?
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If I were a socialist, doesn't my perspective not matter at all under pragmatarianism? What if I were an authoritarian or fascist?
 
StillBallin75 said:
No, and I fail to see how this has anything to do with the discussion. Just because I choose to debate here does not mean that this is the most efficient use of my time.
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So...if you don't know whether this is the best use of your time (aka a limited resource)...does this mean that I can tell you what you should do with your time? After all...I know you a lot better than congress does. Which, admittedly, isn't saying much...given that congress doesn't even know you exist.
 
StillBallin75 said:
If I were a socialist, doesn't my perspective not matter at all under pragmatarianism? What if I were an authoritarian or fascist?
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What's the difference between somebody's perspective mattering and not mattering?
 
Xerographica said:
So...if you don't know whether this is the best use of your time (aka a limited resource)...does this mean that I can tell you what you should do with your time? After all...I know you a lot better than congress does. Which, admittedly, isn't saying much...given that congress doesn't even know you exist.
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Do you understand the meaning of a social contract?
 
StillBallin75 said:
We can't. Or perhaps we can, but only in hindsight.
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So congress doesn't know the actual value of NASA? So how does congress know how much taxes it should allocate to NASA? Do they consult a magic 8 ball?
 
Xerographica said:
What's the difference between somebody's perspective mattering and not mattering?
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Well, clearly, if I were a socialist, my beliefs and opinions wouldn't count for jack **** in a pragmatarian system, as it is not socialist.
 
Xerographica said:
There are two ways that you can try to defeat a liberal in a debate. The ineffective method (deontological / moral) and the effective method (consequentialist / economic).
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Right, and as in the 1,078,955,287,874 times before, it never works because (contrary to what your Messiahs limbaugh and hannity tell you) liberalism is precisely about limited government. . .

Classical liberalism is the philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, constitutionalism, rule of law, due process, and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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So if any konservative tries to make a case against liberalism arguing in favor of the virtues of limited government and a free market, we'll just counterattack by saying we fully agree with those things and cite how konservatives favor big government $trillions in deficit-funded military imbroglios (i. e. Iraq War) that have no relevance to national defense and $billions in deficit funded welfare to oil and grain companies, as well as anti-feedom big-brother style measures like warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention without trial, and laws/amendments regulating sexuality. . .

. . .and then watch as the konservative is forced to re-insert his cranium into the FauxNews feed.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
Do you understand the meaning of a social contract?
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First you answer my question and then I'll answer yours. If you don't know what is or isn't the best use of your time...then can I tell you how to use your time?
 
Xerographica said:
So congress doesn't know the actual value of NASA? So how does congress know how much taxes it should allocate to NASA? Do they consult a magic 8 ball?
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They consult the bureaucracy itself and the NASA makes it clear what missions it wishes to pursue and how much funds it needs. It is then Congress's decision to decide whether or not to allow NASA to pursue all those objectives and allocate those funds, because generally the legislators in committee are experts on those programs more so than the average taxpayer.
 
Xerographica said:
There are two ways that you can try to defeat a liberal in a debate. The ineffective method (deontological / moral) and the effective method (consequentialist / economic).
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You're right. Morality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether a particular program is economically beneficial. That's why we should euthanize Alzheimers patients and those on life support. Imagine all the money society will save.
 
Xerographica said:
First you answer my question and then I'll answer yours. If you don't know what is or isn't the best use of your time...then can I tell you how to use your time?
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No, you can't. The difference, however, is that i have legislators in Congress who represent me and my interests, while you do not represent me in any way shape or form.
 
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Centinel said:
You're right. Morality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether a particular program is economically beneficial. That's why we should euthanize Alzheimers patients and those on life support. Imagine all the money society will save.
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If the US government stopped wasting $trillions on silly wars and mindless military machismo and welfare for oil, grain, and gas corporations--the stuff that gives GOPerpols an ejaculation,

we could buy every Alzheimers patient their own maid.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Well, clearly, if I were a socialist, my beliefs and opinions wouldn't count for jack **** in a pragmatarian system, as it is not socialist.
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So in a pragmatarian system...socialists wouldn't be able to directly allocate their taxes according to their beliefs and opinions? If that's what you're saying...then you're either really mistaken...or just outright lying. Which is it? In a pragmatarian system...people would be able to directly allocate their taxes. In other words...people's perspectives would matter. In a socialist system...people's perspectives did not matter...they could not choose how they spent their limited time/money...which is exactly why socialism failed.
 
Penderyn said:
Obviously no Republican could ever beat anyone in a debate. That is why they talk to themselves.
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Bachmann learned about the Constitution from talking to herself.
 
Xerographica said:
So in a pragmatarian system...socialists wouldn't be able to directly allocate their taxes according to their beliefs and opinions? If that's what you're saying...then you're either really mistaken...or just outright lying. Which is it? In a pragmatarian system...people would be able to directly allocate their taxes. In other words...people's perspectives would matter. In a socialist system...people's perspectives did not matter...they could not choose how they spent their limited time/money...which is exactly why socialism failed.
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Sure, because socialism is a vision for society as a whole, not simply the individual. Socialists could still allocate their own taxes, but in the interest of their own ideology? Not so much. Therefore I'd argue that under your system, a socialist is not properly represented.
 
StillBallin75 said:
They consult the bureaucracy itself and the NASA makes it clear what missions it wishes to pursue and how much funds it needs. It is then Congress's decision to decide whether or not to allow NASA to pursue all those objectives and allocate those funds, because generally the legislators in committee are experts on those programs more so than the average taxpayer.
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So your perspective matters in terms of how congress operates...but not in terms of what congress actually spends your money on? Your perspective matters in terms of how much money the Red Cross receives...but not in terms of how much funding FEMA receives?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Sure, because socialism is a vision for society as a whole, not simply the individual. Socialists could still allocate their own taxes, but in the interest of their own ideology? Not so much. Therefore I'd argue that under your system, a socialist is not properly represented.
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Socialism only works if the government that redistributes wealth answers to the people, and the US government doesn't do that.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Sure, because socialism is a vision for society as a whole, not simply the individual. Socialists could still allocate their own taxes, but in the interest of their own ideology? Not so much. Therefore I'd argue that under your system, a socialist is not properly represented.
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Can you please explain exactly why a socialist would not approve of pragma-socialism?
 
Centinel said:
You're right. Morality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether a particular program is economically beneficial. That's why we should euthanize Alzheimers patients and those on life support. Imagine all the money society will save.
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You're right...I said that morality doesn't matter. Oh wait. No I didn't. That's what you said I said. How about quoting me and trying again?
 
I killed my girlfriend the other day. She told me she was a rape victim. Since liberals believe killing babies of rape victims is the right thing to do, I feel I have righted a wrong for the collective.
 
Neal N. Bloeme said:
I killed my girlfriend the other day. She told me she was a rape victim. Since liberals believe killing babies of rape victims is the right thing to do, I feel I have righted a wrong for the collective.
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This post makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever.
 
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