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Does the libertarian movement embody the worst of human traits?

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UppityProle

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Let's take a look at some of the most salient qualities of the libertarian movement:

(1) Selfishness. This is a virtue. A dog-eat-dog, every-man-for-himself, capitalistic free-for-all is the best of all possible societies.

(2) Greed. You can never have enough money. Even if you're a billionaire you shouldn't be taxed. Everyone "deserves" his wealth, even if it derives from tricking people with "sales strategies" or exploiting needless complexity in the so-called "financial services".

(3) Shallowness. The most deliberate and cynical exploitation of human fickleness is to be extolled. Our heroes should be "self-made men" who trick others out of money. Having a slightly niftier smartphone is the most important thing in the universe.

(4) Ego. I am completely self-made. Environment and chance didn't play a role. Anybody less successful than me is less hard-working, less ready to "bleed", and all-around less deserving of success than I am.

(5) **** the poor and working poor. Bunch of scroungers and/or perennial "victims of circumstance". More like victims of potato chips, heh. Did I mention that I deserve everything good that's ever happened to me and chance and environment never played a role?
 
frankly, you have an undeveloped sense of what Libertarianism is....you are simply talking out of your ass here.
 
Libertarianism is based upon the concept of human liberty. I guess we know where you stand on that issue.
 
Fletch said:
Libertarianism is based upon the concept of human liberty. I guess we know where you stand on that issue.
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Yeah, o contemptible freedom. O foul personal choice. Some people hate it, I guess. Or, more to the point, hate it when others make different choices from what they'd like.
 
What a well thought out post, surely you've done an extensive amount of research to come to such conclusions.
 
I do have to say I find it ironic that someone who calls himself "UppityProle" goes on about "greed" and "selfishness," considering he most likely thinks he's entitled to things which belong to someone else. You know, those people he calls "selfish."
 
I think Libertarians have a fundmentally flawed view of the world, but I wouldn't say they embody the worst of what humanity has to offer.

For that I look to Patriots fans.
 
Sadistic violence directed towards innocents is worse than libertarianism. But just by a little given it is more immediate.
 
UppityProle said:
Let's take a look at some of the most salient qualities of the libertarian movement:

(1) Selfishness. This is a virtue. A dog-eat-dog, every-man-for-himself, capitalistic free-for-all is the best of all possible societies.

(2) Greed. You can never have enough money. Even if you're a billionaire you shouldn't be taxed. Everyone "deserves" his wealth, even if it derives from tricking people with "sales strategies" or exploiting needless complexity in the so-called "financial services".

(3) Shallowness. The most deliberate and cynical exploitation of human fickleness is to be extolled. Our heroes should be "self-made men" who trick others out of money. Having a slightly niftier smartphone is the most important thing in the universe.

(4) Ego. I am completely self-made. Environment and chance didn't play a role. Anybody less successful than me is less hard-working, less ready to "bleed", and all-around less deserving of success than I am.

(5) **** the poor and working poor. Bunch of scroungers and/or perennial "victims of circumstance". More like victims of potato chips, heh. Did I mention that I deserve everything good that's ever happened to me and chance and environment never played a role?
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Well, since you don't seem to have a clue about libertarian philosophy, and based on your assholish affirmative statements, don't seem interested in honest or open-minded discourse, this could be a pretty meaningless and futile thread. Have fun and flame away. ;)
 
Libertarianism generally refers to the group of political philosophies which emphasize freedom, individual liberty, and voluntary association. Libertarians generally advocate a society with little or no government power.


I read that as Rich People's Anarchist!


Libertarian schools of thought differ over the degree to which the state should be reduced. Anarchistic schools advocate complete elimination of the state. Minarchist schools advocate a state which is limited to protecting its citizens from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud. Some schools accept public assistance for the poor.[5] Additionally, some schools are supportive of private property rights in the ownership of unappropriated land and natural resources while others reject such private ownership and often support common ownership instead.[6][7][8] Another distinction can be made among libertarians who support private ownership and those that support common ownership of the means of production; the former generally supporting a capitalist economy, the latter a socialist economic system. Contractarian libertarianism holds that any legitimate authority of government derives not from the consent of the governed, but from contract or mutual agreement, though this can be seen as reducible to consequentialism or deontologism depending on what grounds contracts are justified.[9][10][11] Some Libertarian socialists reject deontological and consequential approaches and use historical materialism to justify direct action in pursuit of liberty.[12]

It is only in the United States that the term libertarian is commonly associated with those who have conservative positions on economic issues and liberal positions on social issues, going by the common meanings of "conservative" and "liberal" in the United States.[14]
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Sadly regardless what is the text book definition of the Libertarian...most are republicans who are too embarrassed to admit it.. And if you go by [14] they have more ideology in common with Today's democrats than conservatives and Republicans, which only mean even libertarians certainly many on this forum even don't really have slightest idea what libertarian is all about!

Diving Mullah
 
Diving Mullah said:
if you go by [14] they have more ideology in common with Today's democrats than conservatives and Republicans, which only mean even libertarians certainly many on this forum even don't really have slightest idea what libertarian is all about!

Diving Mullah
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14 is slightly over simplified. Libertarians tend to be liberal on most, but not all social issues. Gun rights are the exception to the rule. This gives libertarians more in common with conservatives than liberals by a small margin.
 
All my charges hit the nail on the head. We've seen every single one of the traits I list in the recent thread, "6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying". Sometimes the truth hurts, and this is one of those occasions. The libertarian movement is poison and embodies the worst of human traits.
 
Harshaw said:
Yeah, o contemptible freedom. O foul personal choice. Some people hate it, I guess. Or, more to the point, hate it when others make different choices from what they'd like.
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Which is patently a stupid and ignorant idea. The whole point of having laws is that human society can't work if we're free to do whatever we like. Certain freedoms, like freedom of speech, have proved crucial in advacing civilization. If it weren't for freedom of speech, presumably most of Europe would still be under the thumb of the Catholic Church. I'm just as passionate about these vital freedoms as any libertarian (and I started a thread a short while back on freedom of speech). Other freedoms, like freedom from taxation or freedom to own land or freedom to have a monopoly or freedom to bully your underlings, have not been established at all.
 
Diving Mullah said:
Sadly regardless what is the text book definition of the Libertarian...most are republicans who are too embarrassed to admit it.. And if you go by [14] they have more ideology in common with Today's democrats than conservatives and Republicans, which only mean even libertarians certainly many on this forum even don't really have slightest idea what libertarian is all about!
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Sorry, but I think it's a good bet that libertarians tend to know what the **** libertarianism is about. :roll:
 
mpg said:
14 is slightly over simplified. Libertarians tend to be liberal on most, but not all social issues. Gun rights are the exception to the rule. This gives libertarians more in common with conservatives than liberals by a small margin.
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Indeed, there isn't a lot of common ground between liberals and libertarians even on social issues. Roughly half of libertarians are pro-choice, and some of them are pro-gay marriage while others just want government out of marriage altogether. IMO, the left's overall paternalistic instinct makes any sort of liberal-libertarian alliance on anything but a couple issues impossible without one side or the other abandoning their principles.
 
UppityProle said:
Let's take a look at some of the most salient qualities of the libertarian movement:

(1) Selfishness. This is a virtue. A dog-eat-dog, every-man-for-himself, capitalistic free-for-all is the best of all possible societies.

(2) Greed. You can never have enough money. Even if you're a billionaire you shouldn't be taxed. Everyone "deserves" his wealth, even if it derives from tricking people with "sales strategies" or exploiting needless complexity in the so-called "financial services".

(3) Shallowness. The most deliberate and cynical exploitation of human fickleness is to be extolled. Our heroes should be "self-made men" who trick others out of money. Having a slightly niftier smartphone is the most important thing in the universe.

(4) Ego. I am completely self-made. Environment and chance didn't play a role. Anybody less successful than me is less hard-working, less ready to "bleed", and all-around less deserving of success than I am.

(5) **** the poor and working poor. Bunch of scroungers and/or perennial "victims of circumstance". More like victims of potato chips, heh. Did I mention that I deserve everything good that's ever happened to me and chance and environment never played a role?
Click to expand...

Libertarianism has two fundamental rules: 1) don't initiate, or accept, force, and 2) keep your word. With which of these ethical principles do you have a problem?
 
haymarket said:
Sadistic violence directed towards innocents is worse than libertarianism. But just by a little given it is more immediate.
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So you compare people who don't initiate or accept force and who keep their word to those who commit sadistic violence towards innocents? Apples and cinderblocks, my friend.
 
Centinel said:
So you compare people who don't initiate or accept force and who keep their word to those who commit sadistic violence towards innocents? Apples and cinderblocks, my friend.
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I said libertarians were not as bad as sadists who willfully hurt innocents. We are on the same side on this question.
 
Centinel said:
Libertarianism has two fundamental rules: 1) don't initiate, or accept, force, and 2) keep your word. With which of these ethical principles do you have a problem?
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One cannot help but notice how you have established yourself as some sort of self appointed Papal Authority on the subject and have issued decrees spelling out proper libertarian dogma.

One can go to any number of sources and discover that there are at least a dozen variations on what a libertarian is and what they believe. Some are serious - some are humorous but with a valid point just the same.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/uscivillibertie1/p/libertarians.htm

http://leftycartoons.com/the-24-types-of-libertarian/

http://www.gotoquiz.com/what_kind_of_libertarian_are_you

http://www.dailypaul.com/177191/the-six-types-of-libertarianism-and-how-ron-paul-can-unite-them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

http://www.rawillumination.net/2011/08/eight-kinds-of-libertarians-by-robert.html
 
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To answer the OP, no. Libertarians are pro-liberty. The flaw of the party is that it nearly completely ignores the fact that threats to liberty can originate from both government and corporate entities.
 
IF that was what Libertarianism was about, I'd be all for it. Sadly that is not what Libertarianism is all about, so I have no use for it as an ideology or a political policy.
 
haymarket said:
I said libertarians were not as bad as sadists who willfully hurt innocents. We are on the same side on this question.
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Good. So we agree that refusing to initiate force and keeping one's word are noble and desirable modes of interpersonal behavior.
 
haymarket said:
One cannot help but notice how you have established yourself as some sort of self appointed Papal Authority on the subject and have issued decrees spelling out proper libertarian dogma.

One can go to any number of sources and discover that there are at least a dozen variations on what a libertarian is and what they believe. Some are serious - some are humorous but with a valid point just the same.
Click to expand...
The non-aggression axiom is a foundational principle upon which libertarian philosophy is built. It is the common thread among all libertarian thinkers. Feel free to produce evidence to the contrary.
 
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