Thread: A primer on liberty

Originally Posted by haymarket

I don't think that a corporation has to defeat the military. They will simply co-opt them to serve their needs and agenda.

And how do you suppose that would happen?

Originally Posted by haymarket

Based on what you said earlier today, precious little of the modern government would be left after you reduced it to military and police functions.

I don't think that a corporation has to defeat the military. They will simply co-opt them to serve their needs and agenda.

You seriously believe that the military of this country will defy the orders of the commander and chief and turn itself over to traitors? You're contempt for those who have taken an oath to protect and defend is telling.

Originally Posted by Centinel

You seriously believe that the military of this country will defy the orders of the commander and chief and turn itself over to traitors? You're contempt for those who have taken an oath to protect and defend is telling.

Keep in mind Centinel, haymarket taught "Government" for 33 years... presumably in a school with children.

Originally Posted by megaprogman

I tend to balance my utilitarian views with other moral systems (I do believe I can have my cake and eat it too :mrgreen, so going totally utilitarian as an argument against me does not work (the major reason being that its very hard to quantify concepts of good and harm, so I also use my instinctual morality as a check).

Aha- so that's where you are mistaken (the bolded).

It's easy to quantify the concepts of good and harm, if the basic unit of value is the individual and his life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. It's when others decide that it's legitimate to take from some in order to protect the good of others, that it becomes a moral issue. Iow, as long as I cause no harm to another person's life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness, then I am acting in a morally sound manner. If I decide that you should be required to give of your own life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness, so that I can guarantee that someone else has life, liberty, or the ability to pursue happiness, that morality becomes coercion.

Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla

Some people really don't understand libertarians, liberals, conservatives, etc.
That's part of the reason all groups get the name calling stuff.

Never under estimate the stupidity and/or ignorance of some people.

I understand libertarians. That's why I disagree with them.

Originally Posted by Ockham

Keep in mind Centinel, haymarket taught "Government" for 33 years... presumably in a school with children.

Yes, so I've heard. I wonder how the little kiddies enjoyed hearing that their military is going to go traitor on us and sell out to the highest bidder, and then put us all in cattle cars and send us to "The Camps"?

Originally Posted by haymarket

Could you provide some proof of this penalty being issued and carried out please so we know this is not just the usual over the top hyperbole used to make a statement of impact rther than one of actual fact.

Oddly, I never used the word "penalty."

Originally Posted by pbrauer

Our government is under control by corporations, which Benito Mussolini coined Fascism. The Koch brothers are two of the enemy.

How would you classify George Soros? Just a good old billionaire trying to help everyone? I'll bet the French still want to get him for trying to sink their economy.

Originally Posted by Centinel

You seriously believe that the military of this country will defy the orders of the commander and chief and turn itself over to traitors? You're contempt for those who have taken an oath to protect and defend is telling.

Dramatic much?

Traitors!?!?!?!? That is funny. They will wear the flag proudly and fascism will be wrapped in the red white and blue singing patriotic songs the whole time.

YOu make it sound like its going to be a great decision of the moment ... and that is what it will not be. If libertarianism gets its way, we will gradually reduce government functions and powers over time and the relationship between corporations and what is left of the government will become more fascistic modeled on ALEC which currently exists and inspires many republicans in state legislatures.

It will be like the old Mark Twain tale about how to boil a frog. You do it a little at a time after the frog thinks its swimming in nice waters. You turn up the temp a little at a time and before you know it, frog legs fro dinner.

Originally Posted by Harshaw

Oddly, I never used the word "penalty."

Give us proof of this statement by you

Nah. The government can legally shoot you if you don't give them money. Corporations can't.

Provide your evidence that can be verified. It appears this is just more over the top right wing hyperbole designed to inflame and spread hatred of the government.