Thread: 75% of Likely Voters Support Lower Top Marginal Tax Rates

Originally Posted by Kandahar

Any marketing guru can tell you exactly why that's a bad way to conduct a survey. If you give people multiple choices, most of them will gravitate toward the middle because they want to sound reasonable. By framing a tax rate of only 5% above what's actually being proposed as the "extreme liberal" position, while framing a tax rate nearly 20% lower than what's being proposed as the "extreme conservative" position, it's not surprising that people will gravitate toward a lower tax rate than what currently exists. I could easily design a poll question to show just the opposite, by giving people multiple choice options of "Less than 35%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, or more than 60%." Again, people would gravitate toward the middle choices.

Furthermore, the idea of having the American people voice their opinion on the "appropriate" tax rate doesn't tell you very much...most of them don't even know what tax rate THEY pay, let alone what tax rate the wealthiest people in the country pay. At best, they'll have a vague idea of whether they think top tax rates should be higher, lower, or the same...and even that opinion usually isn't very well-informed.

I think this poll was intended to make a point, and isn't pretending to be a legit poll. They're showing the stupidity of the respondents of other polls, who say that taxes should be raised on the rich, without even knowing the current rates. To say "I don't know what the current rates are, but they're too low." is retarded. This poll doesn't show that most people want lower taxes on rich people, it shows that many of the people who want higher rates are retarded.

Originally Posted by cpwill

...thereby failing to fall for class warfare pap in the face of actual available evidence.

this, honestly, makes me feel much better about our future.

if true.



for those of you (and you know who you are) who will immediately respond by arguing that Americans want to raise taxes on the wealthy - well, it's a question of framing:

No, they ARE falling for class warfare propaganda if most Americans believe we should cut taxes on the richest Americans while we continue to grow a huge national debt.

I have always suspected that 75% of Americans are stupid, now it has been proven.

This poll is probably fairly accurate.

Polls show most Americans support raising taxes on wealthy - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

It says that 56% of Americans are in favor of raising taxes on the wealthy. The minimum overlap of these two groups is 31%. 31% divided by 56% = 55%. That means that most of the people who want to raise taxes on rich people don't know wtf they're talking about. Of course some of them DO know what they're talking about, and this doesn't make their arguments less valid, but if they use polls like the CBS poll to bolster their argument, I'll just say "yeah, so?".

Originally Posted by mpg

I think this poll was intended to make a point, and isn't pretending to be a legit poll. They're showing the stupidity of the respondents of other polls, who say that taxes should be raised on the rich, without even knowing the current rates. To say "I don't know what the current rates are, but they're too low." is retarded.

Why? I mean, I'll grant that the people who say that (just as the people who say that they're too high without knowing the rates) aren't necessarily the most INFORMED people. But there's nothing "retarded" about it. It's not clear to me how knowing the tax rate gives you any special insight into the debate in the first place...all it does is switch the conversation from "I think the tax rate should be higher" to "I think the tax rate should be X+5%". Being armed with more information is helpful, but it hardly tells you anything about the merits of such positions. I mean, if you favored raising/lowering/maintaining the current tax rates, but you didn't know if the top rate is 20%, 40%, or 60%, are you really going to change your mind about the "big picture" issue when you learn the correct answer? Unlikely, because the number in itself doesn't really tell you anything unless you put it in some sort of context.

This poll doesn't show that most people want lower taxes on rich people, it shows that many of the people who want higher rates are retarded.

I doubt that very many of the right-wing Republicans calling for lower taxes for the rich have any idea what the tax rates are either.

Originally Posted by haymarket

By all means the GOP should take these poll results and make lowering taxes upon the wealthy the centerpiece of their platfrom and fall campaign. Please do this.

well, they've already done so. which is excellent.

everyone knows what Tax Reform is going to look like. Just like Simpson-Bowles: there will be large reductions in complexity as credits and rebates and loopholes and breaks disappear. Nominal rates will go down while effective rates go slightly up, though probably less statically scored than is saved in compliance costs. Both sides can claim victory.


but if you want to stake your guy's luck in 2012 on a class warfare message....

Americans are now less likely to see U.S. society as divided into the "haves" and "have nots" than they were in 2008, returning to their views prior to that point. A clear majority, 58%, say they do not think of America in this way, after Americans were divided 49% to 49% in the summer of 2008.

I don't think you have. Don't just dip your toe in the pool - jump head first in that pool. Have the guts to be the party of the wealthy and be proud of it.

Listening to Conservatives prattle on about class warfare has really got on my nerves. It's nothing but cold war era hysteria to scare you into voting a certain way. It's ****ing 2012, get your head on your asses.

Originally Posted by AdamT

What you're arguing is that we shouldn't care what most people think about the issue, which is quite different from arguing about the best way to find out what they think about the issue (i.e. what the thread is about).

No, I am saying the incentive to give the most convenient answer and the answer that in my best interest rather doesn't provide information for good policy decisions. Taxing the "rich" more is something we need to do but it needs to be done intelligently.

Originally Posted by Kandahar

Indeed it is a question of framing...which is exactly why I'm going to call bull**** on this survey. Let's look at the way the question was framed to the people being polled: They asked them the "Most appropriate top tax rate for families earning $250,000 or more." Then they gave them MULTIPLE CHOICE responses: Less than 20%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%, 45%, or more than 45%.

Any marketing guru can tell you exactly why that's a bad way to conduct a survey. If you give people multiple choices, most of them will gravitate toward the middle because they want to sound reasonable. By framing a tax rate of only 5% above what's actually being proposed as the "extreme liberal" position, while framing a tax rate nearly 20% lower than what's being proposed as the "extreme conservative" position, it's not surprising that people will gravitate toward a lower tax rate than what currently exists. I could easily design a poll question to show just the opposite, by giving people multiple choice options of "Less than 35%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, or more than 60%." Again, people would gravitate toward the middle choices.

Furthermore, the idea of having the American people voice their opinion on the "appropriate" tax rate doesn't tell you very much...most of them don't even know what tax rate THEY pay, let alone what tax rate the wealthiest people in the country pay. At best, they'll have a vague idea of whether they think top tax rates should be higher, lower, or the same...and even that opinion usually isn't very well-informed.

Finally, I'd like to point out that this question is being asked in a vacuum without consideration for other budgetary changes, so I question how meaningful the results of ANY of these types of polls are. Sure, everyone likes low taxes; no one likes paying more to the government. People want low taxes, high spending, low deficits, and a free pony. Unfortunately, they can't have all of those things.


EDIT: I'm not sure that even if this survey *did* provide quality data (which it obviously doesn't), that it would actually support your case. It would just mean that people support lower MARGINAL tax rates. Well, so do many liberals. So does Barack Obama. It's just a question of what reforms to the tax code would need to be made to accomplish that.

I just couldn't disagree more. What makes this poll so valid is precisely because it wasn't framed. It was an honest straight forward question with no stats trying to lead people one direction or the other. I am sure libs hate this poll but it gives me hope.

Originally Posted by Kandahar

I doubt that very many of the right-wing Republicans calling for lower taxes for the rich have any idea what the tax rates are either.

That's probably true. I didn't mean to imply that Republicans are smarter than Democrats.