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Regulations, taxes aren't killing small business, owners say

TurtleDude said:
why are you misrepresenting what I have said
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How am I misrepresenting your positions?

Do you need to me print yet again the positions you have taken using YOUR OWN WORDS in a variety of threads?

You have taken at least four different positions on taxation - all very different but having but one common component - you get a tax cut.

At various times you have advocated for

1) a FLAT TAX where everyone pays the same percentage regardless of income level, regardless of consumption levels, and regardless of what they consume in services.
2) tax based on the RETAIL SHOPPING MODEL where each person would only pay for the amount and value of government services they consume.
3) a tax based on dividing all the costs of government up on a PER CAPITA basis and each person would pay only that regardless of income or what they consume or services they use.
4) a CONSUMPTION TAX based on what you buy that completely ignores income levels, what you use in government services or they per capita cost of government.

That is at least four different tax schemes that you have supported - all at odds with one another - all based on very different "principles" - and all give Turtle a tax cut.

So when I say that your position on taxes is based on what benefits you from a selfish personal perspective, how does that misrepresent your positions.

I will be happy to print your own words yet again if you need them to remind you or if you take issue with any of these contentions. I will have them at the ready.
 
sangha said:
Can you find any polls of small business owners that say that regulations and taxes are hurting their businesses?
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Sure he can. Any small business owner who's also a Republican will say that. A few of them might even be right.
 
Hospitality Operations is a multi-million dollar outfit--a, "small business", it is not. Of course Wolfson welcomes higher taxes and more regulations. In the end, it means fewer mom-n-pops can survive, which means more market share for his Hospitality Operations.

So much for the Libbos looking out for the, "little guy".
 
sangha said:
Can you find any polls of small business owners that say that regulations and taxes are hurting their businesses?
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If I had the time I could sit here and find a site that says the moon is made of cheese.Don't ask me to do it I don't have the time. Hopefully you get my point though.
 
sangha said:
What I got was that you can't find such a poll
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HERE'S WHAT I THINK


The Moon is Made of Cheese

Just look at it. The moon is a giant block of blue cheese. It's not moon rock, it's freaking cheese, man! Why do you think it has all those holes? Every time the astronauts launch their pods up there, they load the shuttle full of cheese. Then they sell all the cheese to Costco when they get back to town. How do you think they pay for all those pieces parts it takes to make the dang blasted space ships in the first place!?!!?!?
Just for kicks LOL, it's as good a site as your was.
The Moon is Made of Cheese

www.squidoo.com/moonismadeofchees
 
sawyerloggingon said:
HERE'S WHAT I THINK


The Moon is Made of Cheese

Just look at it. The moon is a giant block of blue cheese. It's not moon rock, it's freaking cheese, man! Why do you think it has all those holes? Every time the astronauts launch their pods up there, they load the shuttle full of cheese. Then they sell all the cheese to Costco when they get back to town. How do you think they pay for all those pieces parts it takes to make the dang blasted space ships in the first place!?!!?!?
Just for kicks LOL, it's as good a site as your was.
The Moon is Made of Cheese

www.squidoo.com/moonismadeofchees
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Do you realize that there's a difference between finding one person that believes the moon is made of cheese, and taking a nationwide poll that finds nearly no one believes the moon is made of cheese?
 
sangha said:
Do you realize that there's a difference between finding one person that believes the moon is made of cheese, and taking a nationwide poll that finds nearly no one believes the moon is made of cheese?
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I said I could find a site I found a site. It is as valid as yours but sadly you don't realize your sites a joke too. That is check and mate. Goodnight, sweet dreams LOL
 
imagep said:
I would much prefer a 20% increase in sales and a 20% increase in tax rates, than no increase in either. Not because I want tax rates to go up, but because I want to make more money from the sales increase. A good economy will almost always put more money in our pockets than a cut in taxes.
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Sure, but you aren't going to get the 20% increase in sales so a tax increase is going to hurt you, right?

But more to my point, I guess I didn't make it clear that I am talking about increasing taxes on the rich. Obviously tax increases on middle class people like myself would harm our economy as we are the consumer class - we are the class that accounts for nearly all production and nearly all consumption in the US, and thus our economy is basically the middle class.
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Yes, "Don't tax me". What you said was that increased taxes wouldn't hurt. It seems you have amended that statement to "increase taxes on the rich isn't going to hurt".
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I said I could find a site I found a site. It is as valid as yours but sadly you don't realize your sites a joke too. That is check and mate. Goodnight, sweet dreams LOL
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Yes, because one guy with a website is just as valid as a nationwide poll :roll:
 
sangha said:
Regulations, taxes aren't killing small business, owners say | McClatchy


Another republican lie has been put to rest
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From your article:
"My biggest problem is the current status of the banking system and how it's being over-regulated," Dennis Sweeney, a co-owner of Summit Sportswear Inc., told The Kansas City Star. "I want to grow this business, and I'm using the same credit line that I've been using for five years."
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You fail to look at the big picture. The economy isn't just about small business, it's about all businesses. The Obama administration is not business friendly, therefore unemployment is 9.1% and the stock market volatility fluctuates from uncertainty.
 
sangha said:
Can you find any polls of small business owners that say that regulations and taxes are hurting their businesses?
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Thought in debate was to prove what you posted. The person asked for a supporting link to your posted article. Seems fair to ask. Do you have one?
 
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So then, could you agree that Texas' loser pays legislation regarding torts is reasonably curtailing specious lawsuits? It would seem to lower insurance settlements as there is more incentive to fight lawsuits and less reason to initiate a suit if you may have to pay if you lose.

I know it would kill you to admit Texas and Perry are doing something right...but, it may be helping.
 
mike2810 said:
Thought in debate was to prove what you posted. The person asked for a supporting link to your posted article. Seems fair to ask. Do you have one?
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I don't remember being asked for a supporting link, but if I was, it's a ridiculous question because my link points right to the source - McClatchy. They were the ones who conducted the poll, and they were the ones who reported it in the article I linked to. Since I linked right to the source, I'm not sure what you mean by "a supporting link". If you like, I could post links to other news sources that also reported on this poll, but they are secondary sources, not primary.
 
From the link:

"Absolutely, positively not. What is choking my business is insurance. What's choking all business is insurance. You cannot go into business, any business — small business or large business — unless you can afford insurance," he told Biloxi's Sun Herald.
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"The thing that chokes us, believe or not, is the Internet. There are so many things that are accessible on the Internet that they can purchase for less than I can purchase from my distributor," Swager told McClatchy. "Everybody thinks the Internet is this great thing that is happening to the world, but it is really, I think, killing a lot of small business. People that we talk to that are no longer in business say the same thing exactly." emphasis mine
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A ha! The nightmares of insurance, and the impact of consumers' increasing abilities to price-minimize. Makes sense to me.

Interesting article sangha.
 
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Small business owners don't know what they're talking about. It would be so much easier for them to raise capital if there were less regulations and taxes.
 
I am not much a fan of polls. It depends too much on sample size, how questions are asked, options given during the survey, etc.

A May 4, 2011 by Insurance Journal seems to show some different views from their survey. Stats can be interesting at times.

"Nearly two out of three business owners believe that tax-related regulations are too burdensome, while 51 percent find health insurance mandates challenging, according to the Travelers Institute’s national small business survey.

Additional key issues of concern for small business owners, according to the survey, include:

•47 percent find operational regulations burdensome, such as licensing, permitting, and inspection issues;
•52 percent feel government regulations more heavily impact small businesses than their larger counterparts;
•64 percent feel a single point of contact to deal with regulatory requirements to start a business at the federal and state level would be helpful.


Small Business Owners Concerned Over Taxes, Healthcare Issues
 
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mike2810 said:
I am not much a fan of polls. It depends too much on sample size, how questions are asked, options given during the survey, etc.

A May 4, 2011 by Insurance Journal seems to show some different views from their survey. Stats can be interesting at times.

"Nearly two out of three business owners believe that tax-related regulations are too burdensome, while 51 percent find health insurance mandates challenging, according to the Travelers Institute’s national small business survey.

Additional key issues of concern for small business owners, according to the survey, include:

•47 percent find operational regulations burdensome, such as licensing, permitting, and inspection issues;
•52 percent feel government regulations more heavily impact small businesses than their larger counterparts;
•64 percent feel a single point of contact to deal with regulatory requirements to start a business at the federal and state level would be helpful.


Small Business Owners Concerned Over Taxes, Healthcare Issues
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First off, thanks for posting something that's actually related to the subject instead of some internet wackos' ideas about our cheesy moon (and yes, I know that wasn't you)

However, the poll you cite isn't what I consider the best source. For one thing, it was conducted by an industry with an interest in the outcome. For another, the poll was conducted during a symposia that Travelers held where they discussed a number of regulatory issues, including the recently passed health care reform bill. And most importantly, if you ask anyone, business owner or not, if they would like less or more regulations what do you expect them to say? Of course they're going to say they want less regulations (and less taxes)!!

The survey I linked to didn't ask them specifically about regulations. Instead they asked what were their biggest obstacles. To me, that seems like a better way to find out what they though their biggest obstacles were, instead of "front-loading" the questions to get a desired response.
 
i like this snippet from the article...

Then there's Rip Daniels. He owns four businesses in Gulfport, Miss.: real estate ventures, a radio station and a boutique hotel/bistro. He said his problem wasn't regulation.

"Absolutely, positively not. What is choking my business is insurance. What's choking all business is insurance. You cannot go into business, any business — small business or large business — unless you can afford insurance," he told Biloxi's Sun Herald.

he's totally right... and thank god there are no regulations stating that insurance is mandatory :lol:
 
sangha said:
Can you find any polls of small business owners that say that regulations and taxes are hurting their businesses?
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Regulations don't help ... however it nonsense to provide it as an excuse for small business issues.

Exporting GDP to low wage economies has removed the ability for small business to grow. Manufacturing stimulated the economies of the community around them ... the old ... 1 manufacturing job creates 2 to 3 jobs in the community. Remove that stimulus and you remove small business growth due to lost consumption. Consumption is 70% of the economy. Look at Detroit ... ghost town.
 
sangha said:
First off, thanks for posting something that's actually related to the subject instead of some internet wackos' ideas about our cheesy moon (and yes, I know that wasn't you)

However, the poll you cite isn't what I consider the best source. For one thing, it was conducted by an industry with an interest in the outcome. For another, the poll was conducted during a symposia that Travelers held where they discussed a number of regulatory issues, including the recently passed health care reform bill. And most importantly, if you ask anyone, business owner or not, if they would like less or more regulations what do you expect them to say? Of course they're going to say they want less regulations (and less taxes)!!

The survey I linked to didn't ask them specifically about regulations. Instead they asked what were their biggest obstacles. To me, that seems like a better way to find out what they though their biggest obstacles were, instead of "front-loading" the questions to get a desired response.
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Back to my point of not liking polls. Your points are valid in that polls can be made to get a intended result. As far as your link, one could make a case their sample was too small for the number of small businesses that exist in the US. Hence, the results may not be totally representative.
But, it is an interesting read.
 
sangha said:
First off, thanks for posting something that's actually related to the subject instead of some internet wackos' ideas about our cheesy moon (and yes, I know that wasn't you)

However, the poll you cite isn't what I consider the best source. For one thing, it was conducted by an industry with an interest in the outcome. For another, the poll was conducted during a symposia that Travelers held where they discussed a number of regulatory issues, including the recently passed health care reform bill. And most importantly, if you ask anyone, business owner or not, if they would like less or more regulations what do you expect them to say? Of course they're going to say they want less regulations (and less taxes)!!

The survey I linked to didn't ask them specifically about regulations. Instead they asked what were their biggest obstacles. To me, that seems like a better way to find out what they though their biggest obstacles were, instead of "front-loading" the questions to get a desired response.
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Over regulation in America ... fallacy. A weak way for someone without knowledge to reach for excuses for failed economic policy.

Surveys are not always the best way to evaluate a topic. I for one enjoy economic studies that dismiss partisanship.

Are regulations an issue for business in America? Well unless you like the freedom of the third world ... America rates quite well ... a liberal rating ... meaning it doesn't over regulate. See below:

Two large
groups of countries emerge quite clearly: a relatively “liberal” group including all English-speaking
countries, as well as Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands and Switzerland; and a relatively
“regulated” group including most other continental European countries and Japan. Using a less
restrictive distance criterion we further isolated a group of “ultra-liberal” countries (the US, the UK,
New Zealand and Ireland) and a group of “ultra-regulated” countries (France, Italy and Greece).
These results provide a rigorous confirmation of our a priori expectations.
In brief, our conclusion is that all three studies point to the same economic reality, even
though they draw upon quite different data and handle the data using very different statistical
techniques, in detail. The next step for research is to determine more exactly how these differences
in regulation influence economic performance.
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www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/Economics/fpryor1/Nicoletti Pryor Essay.pdf

Regs 1.jpgregs 2.jpgreg 3.jpgregs 4.jpg
 
Michael H said:
Over regulation in America ... fallacy. A weak way for someone without knowledge to reach for excuses for failed economic policy.

Surveys are not always the best way to evaluate a topic. I for one enjoy economic studies that dismiss partisanship.

Are regulations an issue for business in America? Well unless you like the freedom of the third world ... America rates quite well ... a liberal rating ... meaning it doesn't over regulate. See below:
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Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, Ireland, and Denmark all are ahead of us on the Index of Economic Freedom. The correlation between ranking on that index and growth rates is very strong.

Index of Economic Freedom: Promoting Economic Opportunity and Prosperity | The Heritage Foundation
 
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