Free speech, eh? Why is Canada prosecuting Mark Steyn?

bhkad · 06-15-08, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Free speech, eh? Why is Canada prosecuting Mark Steyn?
Last Updated: Friday, June 13, 2008
By Neil Macdonald CBC News

The bookshop across the street from my office here in Washington is once again offering "America Alone", Mark Steyn's 2006 polemic about the Muslim diaspora in the West.

But it now carries this splash on the cover: "Soon to be banned in Canada."

Inside the latest edition, Steyn, a conservative Vermont-based columnist who writes regularly for a number of Canadian publications, advises the reader: "If you're browsing this in a Canadian bookstore, you may well be holding a bona fide 'hate crime' in your hand."

That is a bit of self-promotion, of course, designed to sell even more copies of a book that is already a New York Times bestseller. It also happens to be true.

Steyn, at the moment, is effectively being tried, by a quasi-judicial panel in Vancouver, for insulting Islam.

Free speech, eh? Why is Canada prosecuting Mark Steyn?

Anyone looking for a good cause to lend their moral support to need not bother with the prickly issue of the GITMO detainees. Instead, they can give moral support to the cause of writer, Mark Steyn.

What's happening to HIM is much more likely to foreshadow your and my loss of our every day freedoms than what is happening to the detainees. And for some of you who are quick to disavow any concern for the freedom of others (such as those who say they don't care about the 50 million Muslims we have freed these last 6 years) but then turn around and cry a river over the GITMO GUYS, what you should know is that what is happening to Steyn can happen to YOU!!!

Arcana XV · 06-15-08, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Anyone looking for a good cause to lend their moral support to need not bother with the prickly issue of the GITMO detainees. Instead, they can give moral support to the cause of writer, Mark Steyn.

Why can't I do both? Both are important issues dealing with human rights. Is there any good reason why I should give more importance to free speech rights than to habeas corpus rights?

Quote:

what you should know is that what is happening to Steyn can happen to YOU!!!

Heh. You don't need to remind me of that. I live in Europe. We've prosecuted, jailed and stripped people of their civil rights because they had the audacity to say unpopular things. If I could change these laws both in Europe and Canada, I would. Unofortunately, my vote would be in the minority in both places. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or if people have been brainwashed by their control-freak governments into believing silencing certain people is somehow acceptable, all I know is I am usually the lone dissenter voice in a sea of others who approve of these laws.

bhkad · 06-15-08, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcana XV

Heh. You don't need to remind me of that. I live in Europe. We've prosecuted, jailed and stripped people of their civil rights because they had the audacity to say unpopular things. If I could change these laws both in Europe and Canada, I would. Unofortunately, my vote would be in the minority in both places. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or if people have been brainwashed by their control-freak governments into believing silencing certain people is somehow acceptable, all I know is I am usually the lone dissenter voice in a sea of others who approve of these laws.

I found that difficult to completely believe until I found this.

Quote:

Earlier this year Bishop of Rochester Michael Nazir-Ali sparked a controversy when he declared that Islamism is filling the void left by Britain's abandonment of its Christian roots, to the point that some parts of the UK are now "no-go areas" for non-Muslims. Recent events vividly underscore his message.

Last February a pair of Baptist missionaries distributing leaflets in Birmingham, England, encountered an apparent no-go area firsthand — with police serving as its enforcers:

Two Christian preachers were stopped from handing out Bible extracts by police because they were in a Muslim area, it was claimed yesterday.

They say they were told by a Muslim police community support officer that they could not preach there and that attempting to convert Muslims to Christianity was a hate crime.

The community officer is also said to have told the two men: "You have been warned. If you come back here and get beat up, well, you have been warned."

The preachers — Americans who are longtime residents of the UK — contend that such treatment violated their rights of religious expression: "This is a free country and to suggest we were guilty of a hate crime for spreading God's word is outrageous."

Christians Warned Not to Evangelize British Muslims - Islamist Watch Blog

Imagine if there were places in America you couldn't go because it was Muslim.

Imagine if there were places in America where you could not proselytize because it would be considered a hate crime.

Imagine if a Muslim cop in America told you that you could not go into the Muslim area and if you did not leave that the onus was on you, "You have been warned. If you come back here and get beat up, well, you have been warned."

That is outrageous and whoever it was who said they thought the Islamization of the UK was exaggerated has a strange frame of reference.

Quote:

If we are going to give Muslims the right to practise their religion free of interference, can we not expect them to accord others the same right?

-- Curt van den Heuvel

http://wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/whyiamnotamuslim.htm

But the comment I highlighted above is absolutely an eye opener.

Read it again:

"...Islamism is filling the void left by Britain's abandonment of its Christian roots..."

I don't know about you but I have always wondered why I got the feeling that SOME (not all) of the same people who were defending Islamism and criticizing American policies who SAID they were atheists seemed less than genuine. But without a motive for Muslims doing this I just made a mental note of this and moved on.

Until I read the line above. And that was the missing piece of the puzzle.

Muslims may not only masquerade as Bush hating liberals but they may also be hiding in atheists clothing!

Why?

To deplete America, as much as possible, of our Christian roots so they can some day offer to become the answer to our societal woes.

Islam.

A CHANGE from Christianity!

Ladies and Gents, they are thinking RINGS around us.

Arcana XV · 06-15-08, 10:48 AM

Oh, so atheists and liberals are really Muslims trying to take over the world, now! Must you bring everything back to the big, bad Muslim conspiracy?

There are places in America where I can't go because I'm a white woman.

There are places in America where I can only go because I'm Hispanic.

What is your point exactly?

This is what happens when you allow ghettos to form. Outsiders will not be welcome in any segregated neighborhood, whether that segregation is voluntary or not. It has nothing to do with religion, race or ethnicity. It's simply the very human tendency to not trust "the others".

If Muslims were really out to take over the world in sneaky, underhanded ways, segregating themselves from the rest of the country they live in is really not the way to go about it.

Simon W. Moon · 06-15-08, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

What's happening to HIM is much more likely to foreshadow your and my loss of our every day freedoms than what is happening to the detainees.

I'm not a Canadian so I don't think it's likely to apply to me. Unless Canada decides to create their own Gitmo where they grab foreign nationals and detain them indefinitely w/o charges or a trial. In which case, all bets are off.

And ain't the US and our 1st amendment grand? I think it's among of the smartest moves out Founding Father made

And fwiw, the Bush Admin has argued tha they can grab US nationals in the US and hold them w/o any due process. That's more of a threat to us than the actions of Canada.

Simon W. Moon · 06-15-08, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Ladies and Gents, they are thinking RINGS around us.

You're thinking in rings.

TacticalEvilDan · 06-15-08, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

What's happening to HIM is much more likely to foreshadow your and my loss of our every day freedoms than what is happening to the detainees. And for some of you who are quick to disavow any concern for the freedom of others (such as those who say they don't care about the 50 million Muslims we have freed these last 6 years) but then turn around and cry a river over the GITMO GUYS, what you should know is that what is happening to Steyn can happen to YOU!!!

No.

We here in America have our OWN civil liberties issues and cultural clashes which are entirely independent of Canada's. Canada is not the canary in the mineshaft of American social evolution.

We do not elect our elected officials. I'd say we've got a hell of a lot more to worry about than a banned book.

I'm sure it makes a great thing to panic over, if you ignore the reality of the situation.

TacticalEvilDan · 06-15-08, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Imagine if there were places in America where you could not proselytize because it would be considered a hate crime.

Imagine if a Muslim cop in America told you that you could not go into the Muslim area and if you did not leave that the onus was on you, "You have been warned. If you come back here and get beat up, well, you have been warned."

Um, actually, the $cientologists have already done it. They've closed off entire blocks where their loyal followers own all the property, with the help of police, for weekend block parties where potential recruits are welcome to walk in and get sucked up by the propaganda, but reporters and malcontents are forcibly ejected.

At any rate, no civil rights situation in the UK is applicable for a comparison to any civil rights situation in the US. The UK is currently in its own universe when it comes to rule of law.

mikhail · 06-16-08, 03:51 PM

The uk actually has a law against "insulting" placards at protest rallys and you also have to apply to protest outside parliment.

Alot of this stems from i feel politicians in Europe fearing for their personnel safety.The worst effected by these laws are those muslims who choose to leave Islam they are the biggest victims of intimidation the laws dont really protect their rights and the police dont wanna get involved because it causes tension in the communities.

Erudite · 06-22-08, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Imagine if there were places in America where you could not proselytize because it would be considered a hate crime.

You've given one paltry anecdote, and the moral dilemma contained within it is quite vague, as the preachers seemed to be openly disparaging Islam. Isolated occurences do happen outside the larger patterns and paradigms of society.

Quote:

Read it again:

"...Islamism is filling the void left by Britain's abandonment of its Christian roots..."

I suggest you read it again, as that specific passage is attributable to a leading bishop, who is subject to subjectivism and individual views, and thus cannot be employed as evidence in a debate. In fact, that quote justifies the restrictions on preaching; the protection of minorities is a central tenet of democracy, and such openly aggressive statements are not commensurate with the doctrine.

Quote:

Muslims may not only masquerade as Bush hating liberals but they may also be hiding in atheists clothing!
Why?
To deplete America, as much as possible, of our Christian roots so they can some day offer to become the answer to our societal woes.

You seem to have forsaken, in your spirited tract, the dissemination of Homosexuality, Communism, AIDS, Black Mambas, Socialism, Itchy Woolen Trousers and and Tea At Four; all those other phenomena tending to impugn traditional American values.
Also, to commence speaking in a less caustic tone, your statement makes no sense, and is the unfortunate result of the confluence of several aspects of faulty reasoning and odiousness.