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"Hate" Speech

CaptainCourtesy said:
That is precisely what I am saying. If you have the greatest idea in the world... and present it in the worst way possible, no one will care and it will be ignored. If you want to be dealt with, effectively, you need to know how to present yourself and deal with others. It's a two way street.
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Then we understand each other.
 
Henrin said:
I'm thinking you're telling me that not saying anything is the answer. I don't much care for that answer.
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Your not caring for the answer doesn't change the answer. Your intent of what you are going to say, of course, does affect point #2... and all the points for that matter. If, for example, consequences or being heard or understood are not your concern, then none of my points would apply.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
If, for example, consequences or being heard or understood are not your concern, then none of my points would apply.
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Serious question.....if I am a scientist say studying global warming and I make a statement on what the truth is about global warming do I sift everything I say through the screen of my preconceived ideas about how people will react to what I believe the truth to be? And if I do what will be the cost of my failure to speak truth?

Considering the crappola we find ourselves in right now the answer matters a lot.

EDIT: maybe after this exchange you understand Trump better, and why so many of us are solidly behind him.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
When I was at Able2know a bunch of people told me " go into a bar and say that and see what happens" I said "Makes no difference, speaking truth is part of my code, and being connected to reality is a major part of my lifes work.

If you want your fantasies supported then you dont want to be around me. I am very dangerous to people like that.I was beat up a lot as a kid, but I did not betray myself then and I will certainly not do so now.
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Everyone has there own version of the "truth". You have yours , I have mine etc. You don't have a corner on the market
 
opendebate said:
Everyone has there own version of the "truth". You have yours , I have mine etc. You don't have a corner on the market
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agreed. Lets talk about it openly and freely. That is the only way.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Your not caring for the answer doesn't change the answer. Your intent of what you are going to say, of course, does affect point #2... and all the points for that matter. If, for example, consequences or being heard or understood are not your concern, then none of my points would apply.
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This isn't about intent or understanding, but about people not wanting to hear the truth at all. There are times when people just need to hear something they don't want to hear.
 
Henrin said:
This isn't about intent or understanding, but about people not wanting to hear the truth at all. There are times when people just need to hear something they don't want to hear.
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Given the robust fantasy lives that the triumph of victim culture has facilitated the legions of those who desperately need to hear some truth probably runs into the majority.

And Ya, they dont usually want to do it.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Serious question.....if I am a scientist say studying global warming and I make a statement on what the truth is about global warming do I sift everything I say through the screen of my preconceived ideas about how people will react to what I believe the truth to be? And if I do what will be the cost of my failure to speak truth?

Considering the crappola we find ourselves in right now the answer matters a lot.
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Not at all. I am not saying that one should alter the truth. I am saying that one needs to know how to present the truth so as many people will listen to it as possible.

EDIT: maybe after this exchange you understand Trump better, and why so many of us are solidly behind him.
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Trump is that bull in the china shop that breaks things and is nothing but a nuisance. He is an excellent example of what I said. How good his ideas are are of no consequence. He has no idea how to present them intelligently or sanely. As far as why there are some who are behind him? I don't know... because some like cleaning up messes that bulls in china shops leave or some don't mind getting gored while that bull does damage?
 
Henrin said:
This isn't about intent or understanding, but about people not wanting to hear the truth at all. There are times when people just need to hear something they don't want to hear.
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1) Truth is subjective in the context of what we are discussing... politics.
2) There is nothing you can do to make anyone HEAR anything if they do not want to. You do not have that kind of control.
3) You CAN have some influence on those who MAY not want to hear what you want to say. If you want to have influence, my suggestion would be to follow my 4 points. If you don't, you will fail.
4) And of course it is about intent or understanding. If your intent is not to be heard, you can say anything you want, anyway you want.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Given the robust fantasy lives that the triumph of victim culture has facilitated the legions of those who desperately need to hear some truth probably runs into the majority.

And Ya, they dont usually want to do it.
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Truth is subjective. And if you want someone to hear YOUR version of the truth, phrase it in a way that it's listenable. If you don't you'll be ignored.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Trump is that bull in the china shop that breaks things and is nothing but a nuisance. He is an excellent example of what I said. How good his ideas are are of no consequence.
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No consequence? Where have you been hiding yourself these last 6 months? Trump has changed everything, that is the definition of being consequential.

Words have established meanings, you are not free to make up your own.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Truth is subjective. And if you want someone to hear YOUR version of the truth, phrase it in a way that it's listenable. If you don't you'll be ignored.
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Thanks for the advise, but I am responsible for what I do, not for what others do. Those of us who come from abusive situations tend to learn this, maybe others dont.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No consequence? Where have you been hiding yourself these last 6 months? Trump has changed everything, that is the definition of being consequential.
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No consequence. The only thing that Trump has changed is that he has demonstrated exactly how to be a gaffe machine. If he could actually present his ideas in a coherent manner, perhaps his ideas might be sen as having consequence.

Words have established meanings, you are not free to make up your own.
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Correct. His ideas are of no consequence because of how he presents them. Just because you don't like that doesn't alter that reality.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Thanks for the advise, but I am responsible for what I do, not for what others do. Those of us who come from abusive situations tend to learn this, maybe others dont.
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If you don't care about how your ideas are heard... or whether they are heard at all, then don't consider how others react. Anyone who believes themselves to be an island is fooling themselves.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No consequence? Where have you been hiding yourself these last 6 months? Trump has changed everything, that is the definition of being consequential.

Words have established meanings, you are not free to make up your own.
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What, exactly, has Trump changed?
 
spud_meister said:
What, exactly, has Trump changed?
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How one pursues the POTUS chair. How the media reports the run for the POTUS chair. Hopefully the elites awareness of where the little people are, what we believe, hopefully who the elite think run this thing we call a country.
 
NoJewsNoMuslims said:
The 1st Amendment of the Constitution clearly says that citizens have the ABSOLUTE freedom to say what they choose. This includes "hate" speech. When someone says x is offensive or bigoted and says "you can't say that!", that person would be incorrect. The Constitution of this beautiful Nation says otherwise. " Hate" speech is an expression of how an individual feels. I'm for all people saying what they want. Period.
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Exactly! As the Founders intended it, California could declare Sharia Law and it would not be unconstitutional.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
If you don't care about how your ideas are heard... or whether they are heard at all, then don't consider how others react. Anyone who believes themselves to be an island is fooling themselves.
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I am Zen, we believe more than almost anyone else on the planet that humans are interconnected.

Time to move on, talking will not help. I am going to speak truth, and you will either respect that enough to allow it or you will not. If you dont then DP was not good enough to warrant my being here so fine, it is what it is.

My people, the truth tellers, are around, just not in the numbers that I would like.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
How one pursues the POTUS chair. How the media reports the run for the POTUS chair. Hopefully the elites awareness of where the little people are, what we believe, hopefully who the elite think run this thing we call a country.
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One has always tried to get mass appeal when running for POTUS, that's how Obama was elected. How has media reporting changed?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
How one pursues the POTUS chair. How the media reports the run for the POTUS chair. Hopefully the elites awareness of where the little people are, what we believe, hopefully who the elite think run this thing we call a country.
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Guess what? Trump is an "elite". A rich businessman isn't one of the "little people". And he hasn't done anything different from any other wacko that's tried to run for President, even those who would be mainstream party men (or women) wackos. He uses the media just like any other media hound would. He reminds me of Bill Clinton in his first campaign. Oh... and there are plenty of "little people" who he does NOT speak for.
 
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