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School dress code and free speech.

I don't get how the "they won't get bullied for their clothes" reasoning is all that convincing. All they will do is pick other reasons to pick on each other.
 
Henrin said:
I don't get how the "they won't get bullied for their clothes" reasoning is all that convincing. All they will do is pick other reasons to pick on each other.
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Is the solution just to hide problems under rules? Bullying is not caused by clothes, by hair, or any other choice the victim makes. They are just reasons used by bullies that could easily be replaced by something else.
 
Henrin said:
Is the solution just to hide problems under rules? Bullying is not caused by clothes, by hair, or any other choice the victim makes. They are just reasons used by bullies that could easily be replaced by something else.
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Talking to yourself now?
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text

It's amazing to me how something so wonderfully written to do so much with so few words can be so misunderstood once lawyers and wannabee lawyers get involved.

Congress shall make no law. That's so simple. It was expanded later by Supreme Court decision to include state legislatures.

Schools are not included although being run by liberals the schools want to pretend it's the Constitution that prohibits a valedictorian for thanking a god for his success or to prevent a student from wearing a t-shirt they find objectionable. Have you noticed how the t-shirt war is being fought only on one front over on the right?

Yes, school can and should have dress codes. The dress codes should also include the teachers and staff. It is certainly not a free speech issue.
 
clownboy said:
But as you've been reminded, there are many benefits to school uniform wear.
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I haven't been reminded of any such thing. The point was made that they do have a purpose if you live in such a broken area that warring gangs will start fights over who is wearing what color in school. That's a benefit in certain school systems.

That condition does not apply to most of America.
 
jaeger19 said:
Angry and hostile?

You may want to review your posts just a bit more.......
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Yeah, I owned you pretty badly and I can understand why you skulked off sadly... sorry.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is what they call me here...
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Then you do understand! We are brash, loud, overweight, unmannerly, and completely lacking class, according to cultured euro-peans.
 
Mr Person said:
I haven't been reminded of any such thing. The point was made that they do have a purpose if you live in such a broken area that warring gangs will start fights over who is wearing what color in school. That's a benefit in certain school systems.

That condition does not apply to most of America.
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And school dress codes are not federal. The localities that want them have them, and to the degree they wish to establish them. There are benefits (which you refuse to acknowledge). Parents see that, choose that.

You know, I happen to believe the founders, the framers, Madison in particular, were adept in the use of language. If they had meant to write freedom of expression, they would have done so. But instead they specifically said "speech". Your speech is still free, regardless of what you are wearing.
 
d0gbreath said:
Then you do understand! We are brash, loud, overweight, unmannerly, and completely lacking class, according to cultured euro-peans.
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That is me in a nutshell... minus the over weight part.
 
clownboy said:
But as you've been reminded, there are many benefits to school uniform wear.
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Mr Person said:
I haven't been reminded of any such thing. The point was made that they do have a purpose if you live in such a broken area that warring gangs will start fights over who is wearing what color in school. That's a benefit in certain school systems. That condition does not apply to most of America.
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clownboy said:
And school dress codes are not federal. The localities that want them have them, and to the degree they wish to establish them. There are benefits (which you refuse to acknowledge). Parents see that, choose that. You know, I happen to believe the founders, the framers, Madison in particular, were adept in the use of language. If they had meant to write freedom of expression, they would have done so. But instead they specifically said "speech". Your speech is still free, regardless of what you are wearing.
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Let's break this down shall we?

1. You haven't said or demonstrated a single thing to suggest that there is any benefit other than that above in red. I've bolded the most relevant part.

2. Peer pressure is not proof that the pressure is wise; so much for "parents choose".

3. I'm not sure what the rest is supposed to be about. I recognize that the Supreme Court has held that many rights, including that of speech - in which it includes dress, therefore your opinion about what is and is not speech is irrelevant - are abrogated when it comes to students. But then, I wasn't talking about the constitutionality of dress codes. I was talking about their usefulness or lack thereof.

4. "federal" has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
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Mr Person said:
Let's break this down shall we?

1. You haven't said or demonstrated a single thing to suggest that there is any benefit other than that above in red. I've bolded the most relevant part.

2. Peer pressure is not proof that the pressure is wise; so much for "parents choose".

3. I'm not sure what the rest is supposed to be about. I recognize that the Supreme Court has held that many rights, including that of speech - in which it includes dress, therefore your opinion about what is and is not speech is irrelevant - are abrogated when it comes to students. But then, I wasn't talking about the constitutionality of dress codes. I was talking about their usefulness or lack thereof.

4. "federal" has nothing to do with this discussion.
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1) The red bolded is the single thing you choose to address, the rest you ignore.

2) Peer pressure? No, parents choose uniforms for their children's school for a variety of reasons. Less distractions for the students, less bullying over clothing, puts all the students on the same footing, reduces the opportunities for cliquish behavior, it's far, far easier on the budget. The list goes on.

3) meh, you don't want to discuss it, so we'll leave it at that.

4) Sure it does. You seem to believe that all schools follow the same magic rules and that's there is no variance between states and localities. Parents in one district may see the needs for requiring school uniforms where parents in another district may not.
 
I had to wear uniforms from second grade to fifth, and a somewhat strict dress code up until eighth. I absolutely despised having to wear a uniform, with every fiber of my being. I despised the arguments that not getting to choose what kind of shirt I wore was somehow a good thing, as my puny little child brain was incapable of making decisions without the kind, guiding hand of conformity guiding me along; I despised wearing the same ****ing shirt as every other kid, I despised having all the attention of bullies focused onto aspects of me that I DIDN'T have any control over - how skinny I was, the way I talked, being nerdy, and eventually my acne problem, my voice that didn't drop until I was almost all the way through puberty, and a few other problems that I do not wish to discuss.

I highly doubt that my situation is comparable to other people's, but that was my experience with school uniforms. It is what it is.
 
clownboy said:
Yeah, yeah. Except that's not what Tinker was about, at all. That SCOTUS case (Tinker v Des Moines Education Department) was about some kids who wanted to protest the Vietnam war at school and they all chose to wear black armbands. They won the right to wear black armbands.

Schools after the decision and before were still legally empowered to have dress codes.
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I think they just decided to give a little. Hard to get these days.
 
I went to both types of schools.

And even though I thought the uniforms we had to wear looked like **** - I still thought it was better because it was one less thing I had to contemplate/worry about at school.

If people don't like the uniforms, then go to a public school.

No one is going to croak because they have to wear a uniform.


BTW - the worst private school I went to was about a hundred times better then the best public school I went to.

Public schools suck...period.
 
d0gbreath said:
Then you do understand! We are brash, loud, overweight, unmannerly, and completely lacking class, according to cultured euro-peans.
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And you can't write the word Europeans properly. :)
 
Jesse Booth said:
I had to wear uniforms from second grade to fifth, and a somewhat strict dress code up until eighth. I absolutely despised having to wear a uniform, with every fiber of my being. I despised the arguments that not getting to choose what kind of shirt I wore was somehow a good thing, as my puny little child brain was incapable of making decisions without the kind, guiding hand of conformity guiding me along; I despised wearing the same ****ing shirt as every other kid, I despised having all the attention of bullies focused onto aspects of me that I DIDN'T have any control over - how skinny I was, the way I talked, being nerdy, and eventually my acne problem, my voice that didn't drop until I was almost all the way through puberty, and a few other problems that I do not wish to discuss.

I highly doubt that my situation is comparable to other people's, but that was my experience with school uniforms. It is what it is.
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What did any of your personal issues have to do with uniforms though?
 
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