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There are two kinds of Cardiologists: Vegans and those who haven't read the data

_Sal said:
does this have anything to do with the injection of the HIV virus? it was an interesting documentary with profound results
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CRISPR is actually a naturally-occurring, ancient defense mechanism found in a wide range of bacteria, which stands for “clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats.” They did a study recently on it for preventing HIV in human cells.


me too
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That's why I take a low dose statin to hedge my bets. Both my parents died form heart disease and it's not a pretty way to go.


Hawkeye10 said:
Bout that:



http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/26/medical-procedures-may-be-useless-or-worse/

But that will not stop Militant_Vegan from trotting out some doctors advise, then expecting us to take it seriously.

Those who want my attention need to show up with proof, or at least solid evidence.

That is a very high bar to meet in America@2016, AKA the age of the flimflam .

Till they do I am going with the wisdom of the ages.

A bit over everything, everything in moderation.

And eat what you like.

Seriously.
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My evidence may be more anecdotal in nature, because I've worked in the medical profession and have seen the difference that medications, like Diovan, Coreg, Digitalis, diuretics and devices like a Biventricular Pacemaker can make. I've also seen a guy who had a major heart attack told he would die without a quadruple bypass go another 30 years without even meds. Most the time though it doesn't work out that way.
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
Compared to the non-vegetarians, vegetarians had about:

1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis
Life expectancies in the Adventist Health Study were published in 2001 (2). They showed that white, non-Hispanic Seventh-day Adventists live longer than other white Californians (7.28 more years for men, 4.42 more years for women). According to the researchers, this group of Seventh-day Adventists were the longest-lived, formally studied population in the world (with an average life span of 78.5 years for men, 82.3 for women).

The following variables were shown to increase life expectancy:

vegetarian diet
eating nuts regularly
physical activity
lower body weight
no smoking

Disease Rates
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And yet my entire family line, both sides, has outlived in good health both of those averages. Every one of them were meat eaters til the day they died. Can't remember nuts, other than peanut butter on white bread, being a part of our family diet. Were sedentary past 50.

We're all lower body weight and only about half smoked.

Hell, my uncle died in his early 90s and he was one of those soldiers they tested the effects of nuclear radiation on. So, no thanks, we'll all just keep doing what works for us. You'll know us because we'll be the old farts laughing at your funeral.
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
Compared to the non-vegetarians, vegetarians had about:

1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis
Life expectancies in the Adventist Health Study were published in 2001 (2). They showed that white, non-Hispanic Seventh-day Adventists live longer than other white Californians (7.28 more years for men, 4.42 more years for women). According to the researchers, this group of Seventh-day Adventists were the longest-lived, formally studied population in the world (with an average life span of 78.5 years for men, 82.3 for women).

The following variables were shown to increase life expectancy:

vegetarian diet
eating nuts regularly
physical activity
lower body weight
no smoking

Disease Rates
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CONCLUSIONS:
This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (-25%) and incidence from total cancer (-8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (-15%) of incidence from total cancer.
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Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: a systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies. - PubMed - NCBI

Let's say for the sake of argument that this turns out to be right......it does not come close to the payback I would need to decide to give up meat.
 
clownboy said:
And yet my entire family line, both sides, has outlived in good health both of those averages. Every one of them were meat eaters til the day they died. Can't remember nuts, other than peanut butter on white bread, being a part of our family diet. Were sedentary past 50.

We're all lower body weight and only about half smoked.

Hell, my uncle died in his early 90s and he was one of those soldiers they tested the effects of nuclear radiation on. So, no thanks, we'll all just keep doing what works for us. You'll know us because we'll be the old farts laughing at your funeral.
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you know of a smoker who live to be 90, so nothing matters. Please stay off of the thread.
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
Compared to the non-vegetarians, vegetarians had about:

1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis
Life expectancies in the Adventist Health Study were published in 2001 (2). They showed that white, non-Hispanic Seventh-day Adventists live longer than other white Californians (7.28 more years for men, 4.42 more years for women). According to the researchers, this group of Seventh-day Adventists were the longest-lived, formally studied population in the world (with an average life span of 78.5 years for men, 82.3 for women).

The following variables were shown to increase life expectancy:

vegetarian diet
eating nuts regularly
physical activity
lower body weight
no smoking

Disease Rates
Click to expand...


I tried a vegan diet for about 3 months and lost 30lbs, lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol, improved my arthritis, increased my energy and helped my sleep. I had to stop because of muscle wasting and immune responses. I wasn't getting enough proteins from nuts, legumes and dairy alternatives. I think it's genetic sometimes, because I've got an Indian friend who can't eat meat without getting physically ill. He eats, rice, beans and soups primarily with lots of spices.
 
grip said:
CRISPR is actually a naturally-occurring, ancient defense mechanism found in a wide range of bacteria, which stands for “clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats.” They did a study recently on it for preventing HIV in human cells.
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interesting...thanks for the info




That's why I take a low dose statin to hedge my bets. Both my parents died form heart disease and it's not a pretty way to go
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I took a low dose statin for a while, but have quit, too may side effects down the road and it is an unknown still

I am anti drug unless it is needed to keep one alive

both of my parents did as well so it's familial but for me, it's not the worst way to go
 
grip said:
I tried a vegan diet for about 3 months and lost 30lbs, lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol, improved my arthritis, increased my energy and helped my sleep. I had to stop because of muscle wasting and immune responses. I wasn't getting enough proteins from nuts, legumes and dairy alternatives. I think it's genetic sometimes, because I've got an Indian friend who can't eat meat without getting physically ill. He eats, rice, beans and soups primarily with lots of spices.
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Bill Clinton eats salmon twice a week and achieves a balance that way
 
grip said:
I tried a vegan diet for about 3 months and lost 30lbs, lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol, improved my arthritis, increased my energy and helped my sleep. I had to stop because of muscle wasting and immune responses. I wasn't getting enough proteins from nuts, legumes and dairy alternatives. I think it's genetic sometimes, because I've got an Indian friend who can't eat meat without getting physically ill. He eats, rice, beans and soups primarily with lots of spices.
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protein powder will give you 25 grams for a scoop
 
_Sal said:
interesting...thanks for the info
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It's academia way out of my range. But then so is a smartphone...lol



I took a low dose statin for a while, but have quit, too may side effects down the road and it is an unknown still

I am anti drug unless it is needed to keep one alive

both of my parents did as well so it's familial but for me, it's not the worst way to go
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I've been on and off statins and prefer to not take extra meds, unless necessary but my doctor scares me. :shock:

No, there are much worse ways to go, like cancer, AIDS, kidney failure, ALS etc.


Militant_Vegan_ said:
Bill Clinton eats salmon twice a week and achieves a balance that way
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I love salmon and should've tried that. Bill definitely wouldn't have made it without going vegan, he couldn't drop his cholesterol no matter how much statins he took. His doctors told him either change or prepare for the knife again.
 
_Sal said:
protein powder will give you 25 grams for a scoop
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Now all the intelligent answers come. Back then I was a skinny minnie wasting away with no clue.
 
grip said:
It's academia way out of my range. But then so is a smartphone...lol

I've been on and off statins and prefer to not take extra meds, unless necessary but my doctor scares me. :shock:

No, there are much worse ways to go, like cancer, AIDS, kidney failure, ALS etc.
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well my doctor tripped me out too so I began to take them. I was borderline with both cholestrals high. When I was younger she said that was good enough to avoid the statins. Now that I am older she said, it was not negotiable.

Then her daugther went to med school and she began to help her study for exams.

I believe the new school of thought is that they don't really know if high cholestral is as bad as they thought.

bottom line is, they don't know

what is good one decade is a killer the next

for now, I don't want to take them but I could change my mind :mrgreen:

grip said:
Now all the intelligent answers come. Back then I was a skinny minnie wasting away with no clue.
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honest answer....I only began to add protein powder to my diet six months ago

I likely have been protein deficient my whole life...who knew....I lost fat around my waist almost immediately

if you go for the protein powder, make sure it is from New Zealand....don't go for the cheap crap with sugar and additives
 
_Sal said:
well my doctor tripped me out too so I began to take them. I was borderline with both cholestrals high. When I was younger she said that was good enough to avoid the statins. Now that I am older she said, it was not negotiable.

Then her daugther went to med school and she began to help her study for exams.

I believe the new school of thought is that they don't really know if high cholestral is as bad as they thought.

bottom line is, they don't know

what is good one decade is a killer the next

for now, I don't want to take them but I could change my mind :mrgreen:

honest answer....I only began to add protein powder to my diet six months ago

I likely have been protein deficient my whole life...who knew....I lost fat around my waist almost immediately

if you go for the protein powder, make sure it is from New Zealand....don't go for the cheap crap with sugar and additives
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I'm still on the fence with the statins but am leaning towards being safer taking them.

I'll definitely get the higher quality brand of protein (Kiwi) instead of el cheapo. I'm going to try vegan again if this works, I like the skinny me. Shows the six pack better.
 
grip said:
I'm still on the fence with the statins but am leaning towards being safer taking them.
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it's a crap shoot so do what you feel may work the best

I'll definitely get the higher quality brand of protein (Kiwi) instead of el cheapo. I'm going to try vegan again if this works, I like the skinny me. Shows the six pack better.
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one of my girlfriends is a doctor...she is a meat eater...her opinion...if you can do it, vegan is the healthier choice the benefits are too numerous to count

I'm better with a light this and light that

this week I was mostly off meat so I think I had a burger and likely four ounces of chicken...I have used a lot of eggs, protein powder, tofu, hemp hearts and greek yogurt

my gut feels much better when I eat this way but I can't do it ongoing
 
_Sal said:
it's a crap shoot so do what you feel may work the best

one of my girlfriends is a doctor...she is a meat eater...her opinion...if you can do it, vegan is the healthier choice the benefits are too numerous to count

I'm better with a light this and light that

this week I was mostly off meat so I think I had a burger and likely four ounces of chicken...I have used a lot of eggs, protein powder, tofu, hemp hearts and greek yogurt

my gut feels much better when I eat this way but I can't do it ongoing
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It's just that a crap shoot. My mom lived to 80 without them, wouldn't take them. I'm not as tough as her though, she was a mamma bear.


That diet of light meats, eggs, protein powder, hemp and yogurt sounds ideal. I'd try the 6 day diet of that with a 7th day of whatever you want to splurge on as an alternative. That way you mostly eat well knowing that at least one day is coming soon that you can be naughty.
 
grip said:
It's just that a crap shoot. My mom lived to 80 without them, wouldn't take them. I'm not as tough as her though, she was a mamma bear.


That diet of light meats, eggs, protein powder, hemp and yogurt sounds ideal. I'd try the 6 day diet of that with a 7th day of whatever you want to splurge on as an a/lternative. That way you mostly eat well knowing that at least one day is coming soon that you can be naughty.
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i really like that idea of one day a week simply because if you eat all the junk and meat you can in one day, it won't be as much as if you do a little here and a little there because a little can grow big quickly...better to be strict all week and cheat like crazy for a day...yes...I do 80/20

however I am eating too many calories even though they are healthy calories...I need to drop five pounds so I started reducing my intake today... :(

I wish I could say I was starving and deprived but I'm not feeling that way

we eat way too much at a sitting...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
 
_Sal said:
i really like that idea of one day a week simply because if you eat all the junk and meat you can in one day, it won't be as much as if you do a little here and a little there because a little can grow big quickly...better to be strict all week and cheat like crazy for a day...yes...I do 80/20

however I am eating too many calories even though they are healthy calories...I need to drop five pounds so I started reducing my intake today... :(

I wish I could say I was starving and deprived but I'm not feeling that way

we eat way too much at a sitting...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much
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This is an old diet plan of being disciplined for 6 days, then going nuts for one day. And like you said, you can't eat enough in one day to ruin 6 days of eating good, even if hot fudge Sundays all day.


If you eat less for 6 days, your appetite and stomach capacity will reduce. You don't need to starve, quite the opposite. The more you reduce your intake, the easier it gets to control your appetite.
 
grip said:
This is an old diet plan of being disciplined for 6 days, then going nuts for one day. And like you said, you can't eat enough in one day to ruin 6 days of eating good, even if hot fudge Sundays all day.


If you eat less for 6 days, your appetite and stomach capacity will reduce. You don't need to starve, quite the opposite. The more you reduce your intake, the easier it gets to control your appetite.
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I don't know how this happened to me because I make healthy choices but honestly, I put too much on my plate and sometimes I eat mindlessly so I am estimating I am likely eating at least 25% more than I need

My girlfriends mother has had huge cardiovascular troubles for ten years. She is in her 80s now. Her kidney's are failing she is in congestive heart failure basically and has said she will not do dialysis

her cardiologist said fine but in order to stay active my advice is to eat only enough to live

she has gone down about forty pounds and yes she her legs still swell and she still needs meds but she is a going concern

I have been thinking of that advice lately...eat only enough to live...there's some good there to think about

I don't need the amount I am eating, obviously and have been frustrated thinking well, I am trying...but really, I haven't been

today I ate like I used to when I was 108 we shall see how this goes.
 
_Sal said:
I don't know how this happened to me because I make healthy choices but honestly, I put too much on my plate and sometimes I eat mindlessly so I am estimating I am likely eating at least 25% more than I need

My girlfriends mother has had huge cardiovascular troubles for ten years. She is in her 80s now. Her kidney's are failing she is in congestive heart failure basically and has said she will not do dialysis

her cardiologist said fine but in order to stay active my advice is to eat only enough to live

she has gone down about forty pounds and yes she her legs still swell and she still needs meds but she is a going concern

I have been thinking of that advice lately...eat only enough to live...there's some good there to think about

I don't need the amount I am eating, obviously and have been frustrated thinking well, I am trying...but really, I haven't been

today I ate like I used to when I was 108 we shall see how this goes.
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Your GF's mother is actually taking the easier way out. Dialysis at this point would only extend her misery. Id she eats only enough to live she'll be happier. The body will produce endorphin's to ease her pain as she loses weight.

You should eat according to your own mindset. Remember this that eating produces serotonin, which is a feel good brain chemical, especially when it's carbs. I take an amino acid supplement to short circuit this cascade called L-Tryptophan 500mg at bedtime. We have to trick our own brains to make us act properly, so don't feel bad since its all chemistry.
 
grip said:
Your GF's mother is actually taking the easier way out. Dialysis at this point would only extend her misery. Id she eats only enough to live she'll be happier. The body will produce endorphin's to ease her pain as she loses weight.

You should eat according to your own mindset. Remember this that eating produces serotonin, which is a feel good brain chemical, especially when it's carbs. I take an amino acid supplement to short circuit this cascade called L-Tryptophan 500mg at bedtime. We have to trick our own brains to make us act properly, so don't feel bad since its all chemistry.
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what is that?
 
_Sal said:
thanks grip for the link

those are some pretty heavy duty contraindications

I think I will maybe just skip that little pill... :mrgreen:
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They always put the big scare on with this supplement, since it's failure in the 70's with production. I will vouch for the brand from Now in 500mg doses a day as safe. But it doesn't need to be taken beyond a month at a time. By then, you'll be able to quit the supplement and reduce your appetite easily.
 
grip said:
They always put the big scare on with this supplement, since it's failure in the 70's with production. I will vouch for the brand from Now in 500mg doses a day as safe. But it doesn't need to be taken beyond a month at a time. By then, you'll be able to quit the supplement and reduce your appetite easily.
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ah, short term then for long term gain...I will think about it then if I can't drop my five pounds of fat which apparently are equal to five baseballs in size

when you think about fat that way...it's gross
 
_Sal said:
ah, short term then for long term gain...I will think about it then if I can't drop my five pounds of fat which apparently are equal to five baseballs in size

when you think about fat that way...it's gross
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Yes, pounds on the hips are not pleasant in those terms,,,lol. L-tryptophan is really an easy solution for the short term by increasing happiness, without food and improving sleep. Just remember to quit after a month or two.
 
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