Shame on you DP members - Page 3

Indy · 09-11-08, 10:30 AM

I just took a gander at the US Elections forum this morning and it looks like this thread had zero impact. Sad times.

dclxvinoise · 09-11-08, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy

I just took a gander at the US Elections forum this morning and it looks like this thread had zero impact. Sad times.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are far so wrapped up in being political and partisan that they are unable to have normal non-political conversations that take an objective look at what is happening to both sides.

American · 09-11-08, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quortix

Just being short of 2 weeks reading from this forum on and off, I've come to the conclusion that the majority of people seek to use the same political bickering, finding its way in the realm of smear campaigns, for self-aggrandizement and personal gains. I am highly disappointed in a conduct of most members who rather mirror the same spinmasters in the mainstream media to marinate their arguments with specious half-truths, bizarre analogies, and array of non-sequiturs; ultra-partisans out-maneuvering each other. Just remember, if the media of far Left or Right fuel the election circus with no sound contribution to the end result, they have a stake to BBQ -- they make their profit, you don't. So much so that I see no reason to continue on posting here although I might enjoy the discussion on Economics sub-forum. This country has become a lost cause and I rather take myself out of the political scene... For my own sanity. Oh heck, I've made my million and I am not even 30... What do I care.

So long

Quor..... uh who? Anyway, as we were saying.....

TacticalEvilDan · 09-11-08, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy

Shame on you. We have always had our differences and do not see eye to eye, but at least we used to be able to have conversations and meaningful debates. We used to discuss issues for 20+ pages with stats, quotes, historical comparisons, etc. but now all we do is bicker. To make things worse, it seems that we take joy out of the misery of our fellow DP members. Why on earth would you be happy that somebody's candidate is loosing when you haven't mentioned a single real issue in months? It seems that people on this forum have begun to only care about the polls so that they can beat up on the opposing party and taunt them. This election has sucked the intelligence out of this forum and has replaced it with blind partisanship and an embarrassingly large amount of 5th grade bully mentality. This goes for just about everyone. True, we do have our occasional shining stars who choose to use issues instead of insults to win the debates, but these are few and far between these days. I am embarrassed and disgusted with my favorite political stomping grounds. I say shame on both your houses, liberal and conservative alike.

Get back on track. Start talking about issues again. Be civil. Use the brain that's between your ears and not the one on the AM radio. Stop posting polls every single day and hollering about how you knew all along your boy would win and your "enemies" are scared. Grow up. Act like adults. If you don't have an intelligent new way of looking at the issue or a new fact then don't even bother posting. Site your sources. Stop making things up and then getting upset when people call you out on it. Don't post something that you wouldn't say in front of your grandmother. And most of all, check your blind partisanship at the door. We aren't toddlers here, we are adults. Look at the top right hand corner of your screen, we only have one rule: CIVILITY IS A MUST.

Thank you. You are absolutely 100% correct.

I myself sometimes wander off the path of talking about what's important, but to be honest the tone in this forum as a whole has had me either searching for a funciton that lets me ignore threads started by certain individuals, or thinking I should just wander off.

The difficulty with simply leaving is that just about every political forum I've wandered through has the same problems we're having here, just to different degrees and with a local flavor.

Either way, I stand chastised and I guess all I can do is change my own behavior. There's no venue I've found yet that is free of tard-iness.

independent_thinker2002 · 09-11-08, 01:01 PM

Here is a thought I had. The very people that are complaining about the quality of debate here aren't starting any threads conducive to a good debate. All it takes is one partisan thread to start a snowball effect. It's sad. I have started partisan threads. This is due to the fact that the campaigns and the media aren't giving us anything substantive to discuss. Apparently no one can find anything substantive to talk about with regards to the election. The internet is mirrors the real world, but it also magnifies it. Anonymity gives people the luxury to speak their true feelings with no repurcussions.

This doesn't excuse my threads. It's no secret that I have been in the Obama camp for quite some time. In real debate, you aren't required to acknowledge your opponent's points. You aren't required to point out or acknowledge weaknesses in your own argument. If people can be civil, this can work. You can choose a side, and still have effective, intelligent debate.

Where's the line between partisan and hyper-partisan?

Zyphlin · 09-11-08, 01:20 PM

There have been attempts. Honestly, I started two threads trying to take an honest and even look at both candidates on both sides on two different issues, both of which recieved next to no real responses.

People like conflict, but people also like to complain. I think its the vicious cycle we're in.

And the line between partisan and hyper-partisan really is hard, and its not a definitive thing and its something that can one can go back and forth between. Its very possible for one to be partisan in one thread, hyper partisan in another, and pretty straight neutral in another. Its not something you can truly quantify in specific terms, which is part of the difficulty I think.

And its true, in a normal straight debate there's nothing saying you must acknowledge what your opponent is saying or even try and be objective and fair. At the same time, there's nothing saying in a normal debate that one can't use the tactic of pointing out the opposing sides unobjectivity, hypocracy, bad points, and avoidance of other points. As you say, part of it is just doing so in a civil tone. However I also think that when people are all in a thread just stating their point over and over again, while in no way responding to or acknowleding other peoples points, it is part of what leads to a thread dieing, nothing being said, or sometimes even diverging into just pure hyper-partisanship. That is the one difference between a message board for debating, and an actual factual official debate. People don't generally get on a message board with numerous people just to talk to hear themselves talk, and there's no real contest going on here to work. People get on to interact, hear other peoples points, give their own, respond to other peoples, and have people respond to their own. There's a distinct difference in debating on a forum thread with 10 people participating and doing something like a true debate that's 1 on 1 or a 1 on 1 debate where outsiders are choosing a winner at the end.

talloulou · 09-11-08, 01:24 PM

It's an election people are passionate about. It's historical. It's got an African American, a woman, and the world is a mess. Unlike most elections where policy wise there's not much in the way of difference this time around the differences are night and day. It's actually quite fantastic if you can keep your head together.

I don't suspect the children will be playing nice anytime soon. But for me it's an incredible time. It's the first time I don't know who the hell I'm voting for. My mind changes daily. You'd think platforms that are sooooo far apart would make choosing easier. But it's not. There's real choice for the first time.

Plus the election is just vicious. Feminists suggesting Palin should get back in the kitchen. Conservatives asserting Obama called her a pig with lipstick, which he didn't. It's just vicious vicious stuff.

I suggest folks just take breathers when they need them 'cause the forum is likely to be a mess all the way through and we've got a few months to go yet.

independent_thinker2002 · 09-11-08, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

There have been attempts. Honestly, I started two threads trying to take an honest and even look at both candidates on both sides on two different issues, both of which recieved next to no real responses.

People like conflict, but people also like to complain. I think its the vicious cycle we're in.

And the line between partisan and hyper-partisan really is hard, and its not a definitive thing and its something that can one can go back and forth between. Its very possible for one to be partisan in one thread, hyper partisan in another, and pretty straight neutral in another. Its not something you can truly quantify in specific terms, which is part of the difficulty I think.

And its true, in a normal straight debate there's nothing saying you must acknowledge what your opponent is saying or even try and be objective and fair. At the same time, there's nothing saying in a normal debate that one can't use the tactic of pointing out the opposing sides unobjectivity, hypocracy, bad points, and avoidance of other points. As you say, part of it is just doing so in a civil tone. However I also think that when people are all in a thread just stating their point over and over again, while in no way responding to or acknowleding other peoples points, it is part of what leads to a thread dieing, nothing being said, or sometimes even diverging into just pure hyper-partisanship. That is the one difference between a message board for debating, and an actual factual official debate. People don't generally get on a message board with numerous people just to talk to hear themselves talk, and there's no real contest going on here to work. People get on to interact, hear other peoples points, give their own, respond to other peoples, and have people respond to their own. There's a distinct difference in debating on a forum thread with 10 people participating and doing something like a true debate that's 1 on 1 or a 1 on 1 debate where outsiders are choosing a winner at the end.

I also think it's so bad this time because dem supporters are fighting back, making sure that repeated lies are addressed and countered so that they don't lose, again. It's not pretty. Moral high ground it turns out isn't very effective. People want to believe the scandal. It's probably an indictment of mankind in general.

talloulou · 09-11-08, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

I also think it's so bad this time because dem supporters are fighting back, making sure that repeated lies are addressed and countered so that they don't lose, again. It's not pretty. Moral high ground it turns out isn't very effective. People want to believe the scandal. It's probably an indictment of mankind in general.

Yes because usually the dems are just stellar moralists.

bwahahahahaha.

independent_thinker2002 · 09-11-08, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talloulou

Yes because usually the dems are just stellar moralists.

bwahahahahaha.

Well, that isn't what I was trying to say. But that was their own thinking regarding their campaign strategy and countering with lies about their opponent. I didn't mean to make that sound like dems are better than repubs on the whole of morality.