Captain's Challenge..... - Page 20

jallman · 09-13-08, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

And you have proof of this?

I'm not getting into another discussion with you about any of this. No matter what proof is offered, those two are going to spin it into a fabrication because they can hide behind the lack of transparency in moderation. But it is painfully obvious what's been done when you sit back and watch how they have outright persecuted one particular member of this forum.

I don't agree with it. I won't condone it tacitly. I will not abide it and if I get gigged for speaking out about it, all it does is prove my point that there is no community here as long as these entities continue to run amok.

Now take your pom poms and lead cheer right before you gloss those lips in preparation for another round of ass kissing. We're done here.

CaptainCourtesy · 09-14-08, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

If it weren't all a cover for someone else's hubris, I would be inclined to agree.

This will be my last post in the matter. Zyphlin stated, consisely, exactly what this was/is about. There is no moderation in regards to this issue. Never has been. If you, as a poster, want to post in a hyperpartisan way, you may do so to your heart's content, and you will not be moderated, unless, you break the rules while doing so. And if I, as a poster, or anyone else, as a poster, wants to confront you about your hyperpartisan post, I or anyone else can do so. Those that are complaining, are, in my opinion, doing so, because they do not like being confronted. That is what debate is about.

But you know what? As I have posted elsewhere, today, a significant issue in my personal life has come up, requiring a lot of mental attention, and, as such, I no longer have the fight for this. I hope that others will continue to follow through with this challenge; I have seen some good things come from it, many slow and transparent. I'm sorry if some of you do not like this. I'm not sorry I started it.

And jallman, regardless of what you think, this was never about me. And if you believe that then you've been lied to. Again. But you know what? Y'all can do what you want with this. I'm finished with it, for now.

It's the internet.

independent_thinker2002 · 09-14-08, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

I'm not getting into another discussion with you about any of this. No matter what proof is offered, those two are going to spin it into a fabrication because they can hide behind the lack of transparency in moderation. But it is painfully obvious what's been done when you sit back and watch how they have outright persecuted one particular member of this forum.

If it were "painfully obvious", the proof would be indisputable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

I don't agree with it. I won't condone it tacitly. I will not abide it and if I get gigged for speaking out about it, all it does is prove my point that there is no community here as long as these entities continue to run amok.

If you break a rule and get infracted it's proof that there is no community here? Listen to yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

Now take your pom poms and lead cheer right before you gloss those lips in preparation for another round of ass kissing. We're done here.

Is it your opinion that this is what will make the forum a better place?

Do you feel better insulting me and running away? Is this what this forum needs more of?

jallman · 09-14-08, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

If it were "painfully obvious", the proof would be indisputable.

If you break a rule and get infracted it's proof that there is no community here? Listen to yourself.

Is it your opinion that this is what will make the forum a better place?

Do you feel better insulting me and running away? Is this what this forum needs more of?

Yes, yes, yes, IT2002, we know, we know. You're the good boy.

bhkad · 09-14-08, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

To compare it to the fairness doctrine would mean that it would need some kind of measure of enforcement.

There is none. NO ONE has, or will, get infractions for being hyper partisan.

Actually, what you're seeming to suggest is restricting free speech.

ANYONE is free to be as hyper partisan as they want, as long as they violate no rules. HOWEVER, everyone else is also free to call them on this hyper partisanship, discount their arguments, ignore their opinions, and any other kind of negative reinforcement they choose as long as its within the rules.

Incorrect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

You say this is like the fairness doctrine, not at all.

This is the market place speaking, so to speak. It is people stating that, as posters, they have no desire to engage in debates or conversation with people that have no desire to debate but instead just wish to spew hyper-partisan points non-stop in an unthinking matter.

This "challenge" has nothing to do with moderation. There is not a single person that has been given an infraction due to hyper-partisanship, there is not a single warning that has been given that has been because of anything outside the breaking of a rule. The challenge is not spoken of through a mod box, but as a poster. CC, as a poster, has urged other posters, to act as posters, against arguments that are hyper partisan from their own side and the other side, within the realms of the rules.

How about flushing a thread to the sewer because a moderator disagrees with it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

Quite literally the worst thread in the history of DP.

I'm moving this trash.

How about CC pretending that the readership believes he can speak as a poster and behave as a mod with no overlap?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy

bhkad, no offense, but this was disingenuous and only showed, blind partisanship, and your alarmist and dishonest attempts to run down Obama at any cost. Though I often disagree with you, you had a modicum of my respect...until now. You have no credibility, AFAIC.

And even better. I was undecided. Now, because of you, and crap like this, I will be voting for Obama. That is what your dishonest, extremist bullshit yields. Yet, you will never understand that. Shame. You seem pretty smart. Just have little common sense.

And I agree. Worst thread in DP history.

There's a nice big steaming bowl of sanctimonious hypocrisy being served to the readers here by some of the mods. How many are swallowing it?

And how many of you notice that when you try to speak to a mod as you would speak to a poster that the mod hat can be donned without warning and you can find yourself on an unexpected vacation?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1057718283 (Christians Shouldn't Get Married BCause I disapprove of their Religion)

So, let's just drop the pretense, ok?

Zyphlin · 09-14-08, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Incorrect.

Feel free to PM me any infraction you, or anyone else, has received for being hyper partisan, or PM it to any other moderator or Vauge, or post it in the Binky if you want. I just went and checked any you received, and none of them were due to hyper partisanship.

Quote:

How about flushing a thread to the sewer because a moderator disagrees with it?

Threads have been flushed to the basement LONG before Captain's Challenge started. If a thread has devolved to nearly nothing but attacks, has been completely derailed and taken off topic, or is meant to do nothing but bait and attack upon its start, it'll likely be flushed. No thread is flushed simply for being hyper-partisan, indeed those threads have generally been moved to Partisan Politics as many have been in recent weeks.

Quote:

How about CC pretending that the readership believes he can speak as a poster and behave as a mod with no overlap?

Simply put, that's how moderators are able to act here at DP. That is how moderators have been able to act here at DP since the beginning. And unless Vague says otherwise, that will be how moderators are able to operate here at DP for the foreseeable future. Indeed, I believe the majority of current mods would be bothering with the position if it was forced upon them that they could not also participate as a member. Take this up with Vague.

Quote:

There's a nice big steaming bowl of sanctimonious hypocrisy being served to the readers here by some of the mods. How many are swallowing it?

And how many of you notice that when you try to speak to a mod as you would speak to a poster that the mod hat can be donned without warning and you can find yourself on an unexpected vacation?

Captains warning was not about hyper partisanship, it was about a personal attack. YOU decided to break a rule by questioning that moderator action publicly, and questioning a second moderator action after that (I see you fail to post the other post CC referred to)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Naughty, naughty Hatuey.

CC, do you admit that NYC over reacted by sending my thread to the sewer?

Or do you admit to using a double standard by not flushing this thread as mine was flushed?

Is this an example of how the Captain's boys get special treatment?

YOU chose to break 6a not in one post, but two. You got infracted for it. Its not ones fault but your own that you broke the rules and thus got infracted for breaking the rules.

Moderator's Warning:

If you want to discuss this further, take it to the appropriate place in the Binky or PM a mod. You're verging on, and probably should receive, a 6a for this one since you're AGAIN questioning moderator action outside of the proper channels. However, I'll give you simply a warning on this one.

bhkad · 09-14-08, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Feel free to PM me any infraction you, or anyone else, has received for being hyper partisan, or PM it to any other moderator or Vauge, or post it in the Binky if you want. I just went and checked any you received, and none of them were due to hyper partisanship.

Threads have been flushed to the basement LONG before Captain's Challenge started. If a thread has devolved to nearly nothing but attacks, has been completely derailed and taken off topic, or is meant to do nothing but bait and attack upon its start, it'll likely be flushed. No thread is flushed simply for being hyper-partisan, indeed those threads have generally been moved to Partisan Politics as many have been in recent weeks.

Simply put, that's how moderators are able to act here at DP. That is how moderators have been able to act here at DP since the beginning. And unless Vague says otherwise, that will be how moderators are able to operate here at DP for the foreseeable future. Indeed, I believe the majority of current mods would be bothering with the position if it was forced upon them that they could not also participate as a member. Take this up with Vague.

Captains warning was not about hyper partisanship, it was about a personal attack. YOU decided to break a rule by questioning that moderator action publicly, and questioning a second moderator action after that (I see you fail to post the other post CC referred to)

YOU chose to break 6a not in one post, but two. You got infracted for it. Its not ones fault but your own that you broke the rules and thus got infracted for breaking the rules.

Moderator's Warning:

If you want to discuss this further, take it to the appropriate place in the Binky or PM a mod. You're verging on, and probably should receive, a 6a for this one since you're AGAIN questioning moderator action outside of the proper channels. However, I'll give you simply a warning on this one.

So, what was this thread supposed to be about? I've forgotten.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

I'm just now seeing this thread.

And I wonder how much restraint you would expect from the German people in warning of the possible dangers of Herr Hitler in the 1930's before he'd exterminated anyone.

What we see happening before our very eyes warrants outrage by ALL.

That you or anyone else believes differently reflects a failure on your part to see and deal responsibly with this unique set of circumstances.

Obama is not vetted well. The media has violated their mandate and have been exercising outrageous bias and have helped in trying to foist upon the United States a candidate who would not be subjected to the same certification process that every other US candidate for president has always been.

This is as serious as a Coup d'etat. Obama is being allowed to circumvent the processes that exist in order to safeguard our country and our system of government.

What you do as a moderator of these pages is entirely between you and those you answer to.

However, as long as there are Americans who love this country and our system of government, posting here and people who understand not only human nature but the importance of our institutions and the cogs in our election process, you are going to have people wailing about the aborted processes that are being allowed without a discouraging word.

I might be able to guess at some of the possible reasons for your taking this position but after observing your level of thoughtfulness and rational judgment you have exhibited, heretofore, the only thing I can say to this disappointing statement is:

Captain, you can do better.

Oh yeah. Now I remember.

Orius · 10-22-08, 03:37 AM

I regret that I'm coming into this so late. My offline life has been very time consuming, and so I haven't had much time to visit here. I realize I am a relatively new member, having only joined in the spring, but I have still enjoyed taking part in the debates here.

That said, the partisanship I have witnessed here has deterred me from coming as often as I used to, even when I do have free time. I really enjoy debating with other intellectuals and I have racked my brain in many a thread here while conversing with some top notch debaters! But the trap of being made to feel like I should be choosing a side, otherwise I am an instant enemy, is not a good feeling. I label myself as moderate mostly because I try to approach each issue objectively. Sometimes my personal "ruling" falls to what some would consider the "left side" of the spectrum, and sometimes it falls to the "right side". Frankly, I don't really stop to consider what "side" I am falling on when I have a belief. If I believe something, I say it. I don't repress it because it doesn't fall within specific partisan lines, a.k.a lying to myself.

I honestly don't believe that some debaters here (who shall remain nameless) really come here to learn or engage in an information exchange; they come to fight some kind of dutiful battle, thinking that they are achieving something worthwhile. I believe it's a sad day when your fellow countrymen have become your enemy that you feel you either need to defeat or win over. My philosophy on this is that debating is a method of refining your own ideology. It's kind of like a piece of coal that is pressurized, carved by temperature, time, and diligence, until it is transformed into a hardened diamond. But that is never going to happen unless you are open to learning, and open to being wrong once in a while. Otherwise you will never work your way to the "diamond", which is the truth. Only through being proven wrong once in a while are you going to toss out what no longer works, and both sides of the partisan coin have some really great ideas that can work to the greater good of all.

It seems like people are afraid to be wrong because it somehow speaks to their character, and that being wrong means every moral fibre of who they are is now invalidated. So they fight and fight and fight even though it makes no sense to do so half of the time. This isn't a righteous war, it's the internet and this is the information age. Use this wonderful tool to enrich yourselves with knowledge that, 30 years go, you would never have had such easy access to!

If the internet and the information age were to suddenly die off tomorrow due to catastrophe and we were all kicked back to the days of reading rare, handwritten volumes, you would regret not using this opportunity to connect more with your fellow human beings. When in history has the general public, from all American States and all corners of the world, been able to meet so conveniently? The fact that I'm in China and writing this seems amazing to me!

Your country has the valued freedom of speech. Don't squander it on trying to kick each other's asses. There is more to life than that.

donc · 10-22-08, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orius

I regret that I'm coming into this so late. My offline life has been very time consuming, and so I haven't had much time to visit here. I realize I am a relatively new member, having only joined in the spring, but I have still enjoyed taking part in the debates here.

That said, the partisanship I have witnessed here has deterred me from coming as often as I used to, even when I do have free time. I really enjoy debating with other intellectuals and I have racked my brain in many a thread here while conversing with some top notch debaters! But the trap of being made to feel like I should be choosing a side, otherwise I am an instant enemy, is not a good feeling. I label myself as moderate mostly because I try to approach each issue objectively. Sometimes my personal "ruling" falls to what some would consider the "left side" of the spectrum, and sometimes it falls to the "right side". Frankly, I don't really stop to consider what "side" I am falling on when I have a belief. If I believe something, I say it. I don't repress it because it doesn't fall within specific partisan lines, a.k.a lying to myself.

I honestly don't believe that some debaters here (who shall remain nameless) really come here to learn or engage in an information exchange; they come to fight some kind of dutiful battle, thinking that they are achieving something worthwhile. I believe it's a sad day when your fellow countrymen have become your enemy that you feel you either need to defeat or win over. My philosophy on this is that debating is a method of refining your own ideology. It's kind of like a piece of coal that is pressurized, carved by temperature, time, and diligence, until it is transformed into a hardened diamond. But that is never going to happen unless you are open to learning, and open to being wrong once in a while. Otherwise you will never work your way to the "diamond", which is the truth. Only through being proven wrong once in a while are you going to toss out what no longer works, and both sides of the partisan coin have some really great ideas that can work to the greater good of all.

It seems like people are afraid to be wrong because it somehow speaks to their character, and that being wrong means every moral fibre of who they are is now invalidated. So they fight and fight and fight even though it makes no sense to do so half of the time. This isn't a righteous war, it's the internet and this is the information age. Use this wonderful tool to enrich yourselves with knowledge that, 30 years go, you would never have had such easy access to!

If the internet and the information age were to suddenly die off tomorrow due to catastrophe and we were all kicked back to the days of reading rare, handwritten volumes, you would regret not using this opportunity to connect more with your fellow human beings. When in history has the general public, from all American States and all corners of the world, been able to meet so conveniently? The fact that I'm in China and writing this seems amazing to me!

Your country has the valued freedom of speech. Don't squander it on trying to kick each other's asses. There is more to life than that.

Hopefully it will come back to normal in two weeks; it seems that some feel that it helps there parties cause by starting threads bashing the opposition.