Thread: Left Party leader sparks communism controversy

Originally Posted by Republic_Of_Public

Reading the case histories prove all too often that the people and ideas discredit and demonise themselves - Liberals/Libtards because they've turned authoritarian (as Red Dave pointed out) and Islam because.... well, the list competes with the last ten years' telephone directories combined for length! (Ballpark estimate anyway!)



http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1059225863 (Bristol gay couple win court case - clash of cultures and vested interests.)

In your opinion. I have seen very little evidence presented.

Originally Posted by Republic_Of_Public

That was explored in the Communists Against Oppression topic too. I (and my Slavic family through experience, more importantly) know about Communism in action, which kicks the pulp theory into the long grass.

And plus, neo-Nazis claim true Nazism never killed any Jews - but I don't give them any credit for even their being nauseated at the results of their own extremist politics, going into flat denial as they do.




I never did. As German Guy said, there are plenty of different people in the Left - commies, mainstream socialists who don't need to murder to impoverish a country, the 'PC' clowns, you name it.

Ad hominem, effective. That said Neo Nazis have in fact been responsible for murders so it's not a great example, and I'm talking about communism for what it really is, an economic system. It has a lot of problems, so does capitalism, so does socialism.

In your opinion. I have seen very little evidence presented.

If that be so, the mods must have spring-cleaned the boards of all the stuff which annoys Alexa, German Guy and the others since I popped off to start the vacuuming.

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

Thus, I postulate that Marx's theory is very much alive and that at some point we may very well be faced with the two classes that Marx foretold. In the US we are surely seeing the division between the wealthy and poor increase rapidly. In Europe especially, it should seem the world would see the transformations and move toward communism first, as the continent has already taken the step of softening their borders.

And as the United States moves towards the Left those divisions will increase. In China, as they move towards he right, the divisions of old are decreasing. Under the extreme left of Communism there are only two levels, the rich and powerful versus the impoverished.

The lessons of all the isms of the previous century appear lost on those who still feel that a large government with the right attitude and philosophy can solve our worldly problems, forgetting that when we get big and powerful governments the people in control of it can change, and have quite a different philosophy of power than what was originally intended.

It's the law of untended consequences, and nowhere is that more evident then when people put their faith in politicians and big government,

Originally Posted by William Rea

I tried, but I cannot take this post seriously. After all the demonising of Libtards, Leftists and Islam that has been perpertrated on this forum you are questioning me on this point.

I suggest you type "homophobic attacks by far right groups" or any variant on that into Google to find out for yourself.

So no evidence then.

I'm sure there are charges of "homophobic attacks by far right groups" but they are always made by Leftists and are thus not taken seriously.

Originally Posted by Sean_H

Ad hominem, effective. That said Neo Nazis have in fact been responsible for murders so it's not a great example, and I'm talking about communism for what it really is, an economic system. It has a lot of problems, so does capitalism, so does socialism.

Communism is much more than an "economic system". it is an enforced economic system that doesn't work and never has worked.

We can see Communes in the west that have worked for brief periods of time but usually people try them for a while and gradually drift away, for what ever reasons they might have. Under actual Communism none of this 'drifting away" is allowed. You can only try to escape, and the government will kill you if you try. It is like calling slavery an "economic system". It gives it an air of authenticity it certainly doesn't deserve.

Ad hominem, effective.

No, truth. There's a difference.

That said Neo Nazis have in fact been responsible for murders so it's not a great example

On the contrary, it's one of the most glaring common factors.

I'm talking about communism for what it really is, an economic system. It has a lot of problems, so does capitalism, so does socialism.

Do socialism and capitalism have these problems:


KATYN:


NKVD prisoner massacres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Soviet war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Why Didn't Communism Work in Eastern Europe?

Communism failed in Eastern European countries for the same reason it routinely fails in others — there's no money in it, at least not for the people who need it most. While the economic system known as communism may have worked well on paper, the political form of communism forced on Eastern European countries brought little more than oppression and hardship to the working class citizens it exploited.

The Black Book of Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1058780044 (Commuists Against Oppression - Anybody else see an oxymoron?!)

Lenin Unleashed Systematic Murder of 200,000 Clergy , etc.

I'm talking about communism for what it really is, an economic system.

One counted in bodies!

Anyone can big-up a political system. Indeed, Mussolini's son, on Charles Wheeler's The Road To War, said:

My father, Benito Mussolini had a big dream. He wanted a stong and fierce Italy, respected for its law and order and the highest form of social justice.

He wanted a new Italian character, worthy of its Roman heritage and the brilliance of the Renaissance. Such a race would have been amongst the future leaders of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzFriDRNSY



Law and order - hmmm, good idea. Cultural revolution, social justice and future leaders of the world are epithets bandied about by revolutionary politicians through the ages. Even the prototype commie Napoleon gave it the old spiel.

But all that's useless when you see how things REALLY turn out!

Originally Posted by Grant

And as the United States moves towards the Left those divisions will increase. In China, as they move towards he right, the divisions of old are decreasing. Under the extreme left of Communism there are only two levels, the rich and powerful versus the impoverished.

The lessons of all the isms of the previous century appear lost on those who still feel that a large government with the right attitude and philosophy can solve our worldly problems, forgetting that when we get big and powerful governments the people in control of it can change, and have quite a different philosophy of power than what was originally intended.

It's the law of untended consequences, and nowhere is that more evident then when people put their faith in politicians and big government,

I do not disagree. However, if the US were to move to the extreme right, then we would facilitate the rise of communism. Deregulation and too little government leads to exploitation of workers and the movement of capital to the cheapest source of labor. This will have the same effect as being under totalitarian communist control as one may easily witness. Thus a balance must be struck in order to insure that a fair system is in play that will allow those with the mental capacity and skills, the opportunity to raise their station in the US. An extreme rightwing or leftwing will block and essentially kill any such ability.

Originally Posted by Grant

Communism is much more than an "economic system". it is an enforced economic system that doesn't work and never has worked.

We can see Communes in the west that have worked for brief periods of time but usually people try them for a while and gradually drift away, for what ever reasons they might have. Under actual Communism none of this 'drifting away" is allowed. You can only try to escape, and the government will kill you if you try. It is like calling slavery an "economic system". It gives it an air of authenticity it certainly doesn't deserve.

All economic systems are enforced one way or another. There is nothing in the definition of communism that mandates murder.

They found that in Weimar Germany, where the rush of huge numbers of voters to the extremes polarised the fledgeling Democratic system.

Luckily, we've got no forecastable situation which could lead to the implementation of fascist or communist government inthe USA. It's just not in their bones for one thing.