Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up his...

Djoop · Dec 13, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

alexa said:
Fair enough. I am not aware there is a pattern of abuse in this country.

In my country, religious laws have a horrible reputation, the general notion is that holymen and courts don't mix very well.

Grant · Dec 13, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Alexa

It would certainly be a big surprise if we did not find someone coming out against Sharia Law in the UK

It certainly would. It seems you don't understand the negative reputation Sharia has throughout the western democracies.

and trying to make their stance appear respectable.

It is quite respectable. In fact supporting Sharia law is very disrespectful toward human rights and freedoms, and the western democracies certainly needn't be lectured by Muslims on these subjects.

However anyone observant will immediately notice that this group of people are talking about issues like stoning and begin their report talking about the very worse of criminal Sharia Law which we would never have in this country. Even among the Muslim population, there is only a tiny minority who claim to want this.

It really doesn't matter. If it is all part of Sharia Law then it is a part of Sharia Law. You cant say we are only going to leave in the good parts and not enforce the bad parts. Otherwise whats the point of having Sharia Law? The fact is that it is a foot in the door for this medieval madness you call Islam.

The report therefore immediately stamps a partiality.

And so it should!

It starts talking about Sharia Law in a way there never would be in the UK. Well never say never, maybe in two millennia but not in any foreseeable future – not wanted by Muslims, not wanted by anyone else.

Again, British Common Law has led to the freedom of peoples all over the world, the first world that is, while Sharia is identified with illiterate third world countries where human rights, especially women's rights and children's rights, largely go unrecognized. It symbolizes real and intellectual poverty and has not contributed anything of progress to human beings anywhere..

So to the other matters. Divorce is done through regular courts. People use sharia courts to be accepted under Muslim Law in just the same way Jews use their courts and in just the same way as certainly until recently the Church of England refused to marry divorced people. You have a religion – you follow the rules.

It seems the same thing that happened in Canada should happen in all the democracies. Allow no special cases for any religion.

Obviously child custody is an important element. Muslim women are well aware of that too and it would appear most of them choose to use British Law when dealing with Child Custody.

It all must be under British Law.

Pressure of families may indeed occur and it will occur whether there are Sharia Courts or not.

And we are all well aware what those "pressures" might be under Sharia.

I believe that Muslims ought to have the same rights as everyone else in the UK

That is what is being said. The same Bitish Common Law must apply to everyone.

and that is why they have been allowed to deal with these issues through Islamic Law.

then you are allowing special rights for special groups. That is folly, as you also appear to recognize.

I saw a program last year where a Muslim was talking about them wanting to be able to do their own weddings but so far they were not allowed. Clearly what was required was the 'revolution' mentioned earlier in this thread. It also shows that Muslims are perfectly capable of modifying and changing.

Perhaps you can explain why this wedding was not allowed. And of course Muslims should modify and change.

Allowing Muslims the same rights as everyone else in the UK is equality. It is about the right of choice. If abuse happens and with some of the weirdos it well might, then that will be dealt with by British law.

I think thats what everyone is saying. The same laws should apply everywhere and no religion should define laws that aren't applicable to everyone. And Sharia Law, as is well known, already has too many "weirdos".

Muslim women are working on helping Muslims women. Some of them go out on the streets to meet new immigrants to let them know they are equal. Eventually Muslims will find a belonging in the UK.

That's an excellent program.

Behaviour changes from a sense of belonging and for some Muslims Sharia courts help with that.

No, they don't. Sharia has no sense of belonging anywhere in the democracies. It is third world thinking, should stay there, and this should be explained to these women when they arrive. That way they'll understand that they have a true sense of belonging to their new country, with new rights and freedoms, and not to one identified so strongly with the institutionalized humiliation of women.

Other 'Muslims' are ethnically Muslims rather that religious. They will no doubt stay well clear of such courts.

Doesn't matter.

There is nothing racist about allowing equal rights and that is all these courts are. To argue otherwise maybe comes from fear or maybe prejudice. Muslims choose where they want to use Sharia. If abuse occurs it will be dealt with and that includes abuse from family demanding they go a particular route but lets wait till it is happening. To say that because abuse might occur, a situation should be outlawed is crazy, or fearsome or prejudice.

There is no shame, or prejudice, about speaking out on one of the most backward legal systems in the world. Any rational person should be prejudiced against it.

alexa · Dec 13, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Djoop said:
In my country, religious laws have a horrible reputation, the general notion is that holymen and courts don't mix very well.

Well yes, I would agree with you there and I am aware that I absent mindedly followed what others were saying and used the word 'law' when these are arbitrations. As I understand it things cannot contradict British Law. Hence why legally people must get divorced under British Law...but if they want to remarry under the religion of Islam they must satisfy the religious requirements. This is a problem in many religions and is totally to do with whether a person wants to be part of that religion.

By the way I would prefer the abolition of all religious schools. I came to this conclusion after discovering how much the divide in N Ireland is being preserved by children still attending different schools and not getting to know each other. It won't happen though. The previous government promised more.

Infinite Chaos · Dec 13, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Grant said:
Being a Canadian, not much research on British history is required. We learned in schools, at one time.

Wasn't something as fundamental as the status of religion and the differing regions something that should have been pretty straightforward? If you want clarification of what I mean - go back to your original statement regarding secularism in the UK.

Grant said:
Government directly funding any religious group is not secularism, government making public holidays the same as religious holidays is not secularism however it exists nearly everywhere.

Grant said:
so please avoid these diversions.

OK, if we accept that England is a state with a state religion (thus not "secular") – why would it matter whether a local government gives funds to a religious body or not? You yourself accuse me of diversions – are you still talking about the UK / a constituent part of the UK or some state that allows you to dodge as you and others did regarding the word “many?”

Actually – can you please give me a link to this claim that either UK national or UK local government is giving money to mosques? I've looked and all I can find is this talk of a government grant application for the proposed ground zero mosque in the US, mosques in Norway and elsewhere. Nothing for the UK yet but maybe you can help?

Grant said:
Not according to the definition you yourself sent. Secularism was clearly defined as the separation of Church and State. Thus, when the government is funding Mosques, something unthinkable a generation ago, it is's moving away from secularism, which is what i said in my earlier post.

And again – the United Kingdom is not truly secular. I explained this in my previous post. I'd also really like to see a link to this claim.

Grant said:
But of course having "religious tolerance" and funding religion are two quite different things.

link please.

Grant said:
The funding of Mosques does not suggest that secularism is gaining any ground in the UK, which was my earlier point. Instead it is simply replacing the dying Christian community with another, much stronger, religious community. And just as Christians were at one time impervious to criticism, so now is Islam in the UK. And no matter how heinous the crime there will always be British citizens, almost exclusively left wingers, telling us that "not all Muslims are terrorists" while a significant number of Muslims say criticize us and you will die. That makes for a perfect storm for Britain's future.

Link please then I can comment.

Grant said:
-- It does not matter what they choose to call themselves. They can claim they are secular but they are obviously moving away from that direction.

It might help you to read my words in this and other previous posts again.

Grant said:
Yes, I understand the meaning of secularism but obviously there are those, with much stronger opinions than yours, who feel secularism is NOT an ideal nor an ideal system. So you have those like yourself who are saying that secularism is an ideal, and by moving away from Christianity you could make the argument that it was happening, but another religion has arisen to take its place. Mosques are being built while Churces remain empty.

Are you arguing people should be frogmarched to churches? That muslims should be stopped from procreating or migrating? I'm not sure that you're sure what you're arguing – a secular society is one where whether the mainstream religion is islam / christianity or whatever – that religion is kept separate of government. Many of us believe in an ideal of a secular state, go back to the national secular society page and read up before you come back please.

Grant said:
Seeking a secular state was a form of nihilism because being secular you really had no real ideas, ideals or any cohesive beliefs that united a state together. Just a rather vague "Let's believe whatever we want and we'll respect that and all get along". That's also what multiculturalism is all bout.

Let's just clarify before I answer – is secularism now the same as multiculturalism? Can you also qualify why secularism = having no ideals?

Grant said:
I've already responded to this.

And I was proven right. Thank you: otherwise you;d be able to show that Beth Din and other religious courts continued while sharia ones were not allowed to.

*************EDIT***************

OK, had a last look before bed and found this -

"The Government's response was the Scarman Report published in November 1981 and its recommendations were hastily adopted by the authorities (including the Labour-led Greater London Council). The report made multiculturalism official policy, the idea being to calm things down by officially recognising and endorsing cultural differences and different cultural groups within society. It sought to provide ethnic community groups with grant aid for community projects, bolstering the more moderate forces within them and bringing them into the mainstream.

In East London one of the early beneficiaries of multicultural policy was this mosque. Construction began only a year after the Brixton riots in 1982, helped along by a £2 million government grant. Since its opening the mosque has continued to receive funding to support community programmes. In 2004, at a cost £10 million – £2.4 million provided by public grants and charities – it was expanded to include the Prince Charles-endorsed London Muslim Centre, notable for its ornate traditional frontage to the building."

Wasn't aware of this - and it labels multiculturalism squarely at Margaret Thatcher's period in Govt, as well as the only example of government grants to a mosque. :lamo

Grant · Dec 13, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Infinite Chaos said:
Infinite Chaos said:

Wasn't something as fundamental as the status of religion and the differing regions something that should have been pretty straightforward? If you want clarification of what I mean - go back to your original statement regarding secularism in the UK.

Click to expand...

Why not just say what's on your mind?

OK, if we accept that England is a state with a state religion (thus not "secular") – why would it matter whether a local government gives funds to a religious body or not?

Click to expand...

It matters because, as i said before, the 'ideal' of secularism" is not to be. Instead Islam will replace Christianity and be a much harsher religion. You admit that tax money is being given to build mosques and yet don't understand that secularism, such as it ever existed in Britain, is on the wane. Just as is Christianity.

You yourself accuse me of diversions – are you still talking about the UK / a constituent part of the UK or some state that allows you to dodge as you and others did regarding the word “many?”

Click to expand...

It was the UK we were discussing when the point was made.

Actually – can you please give me a link to this claim that either UK national or UK local government is giving money to mosques?

Click to expand...

Sure. How about this?

"Yeah, there are abominable practices among some groups, there are local councils foolishly granting money to mosques without thinking about what they're actually spending the money on – however what I fail to see is where this is taking over the UK or changing the secular nature of our society. Can you demonstrate please?"

That was you on this thread.

And again – the United Kingdom is not truly secular. I explained this in my previous post. I'd also really like to see a link to this claim.

Click to expand...

Actually it was me who said the UK is not truly secular. You said "There are many things that some muslims and some non muslims think are acceptable because they are in their holy book, thankfully in a secular society it's not - as Djoop showed some pages ago when he posted that the beaten wife now had a lawyer and protection".

link please.

Click to expand...

What?? You don't really understand the difference between "religious tolerance" and "funding religion"???

Link please then I can comment.

Click to expand...

Link to what? I was giving you an opinion! You can dispute it if you choose to.

It might help you to read my words in this and other previous posts again.

Click to expand...

In fact I'm having to go back to your previous posts to quote you in order for you to read them again.

Are you arguing people should be frogmarched to churches?

Click to expand...

if i was arguing that I would say that.

That muslims should be stopped from procreating or migrating?

Click to expand...

See above!

I'm not sure that you're sure what you're arguing – a secular society is one where whether the mainstream religion is islam / christianity or whatever – that religion is kept separate of government. Many of us believe in an ideal of a secular state, go back to the national secular society page and read up before you come back please.

Click to expand...

That's what I've been telling you, that the evidence suggests, despite your claims, that the UK is not secular. In fact it is moving in the opposite direction..

Let's just clarify before I answer – is secularism now the same as multiculturalism? Can you also qualify why secularism = having no ideals?

Click to expand...

You seem confused, Which part of the statement, and please quote it, do you not understand?

And I was proven right. Thank you: otherwise you;d be able to show that Beth Din and other religious courts continued while sharia ones were not allowed to.

Click to expand...

You should be very proud.

Wasn't aware of this - and it labels multiculturalism squarely at Margaret Thatcher's period in Govt, as well as the only example of government grants to a mosque. :lamo

Click to expand...

Who really cares? It's there, you're stuck with it, and whose fault it is is quite beside the point.

Infinite Chaos · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Grant said:
Why not just say what's on your mind?

Tell me what's on my mind and I'll see if you're correct.

Grant said:
It matters because, as i said before, the 'ideal' of secularism" is not to be. Instead Islam will replace Christianity and be a much harsher religion. You admit that tax money is being given to build mosques

One example only I'm afraid and during a very right wing Govt. Gives the lie to claims that it's all the “left” that does these things. Anyhow – you've reminded me, I've answered your questions – please answer mine – when will the 3% of muslims across all Europe replace the other 97% of the population that so that we should wet our beds at night with fear of the prospect?

Grant said:
and yet don't understand that secularism, such as it ever existed in Britain, is on the wane. Just as is Christianity.

Conflating secularism with the wax or wane of any religion is not an understanding of secularism I'm afraid. Try the links I posted you again please.

Grant said:
It was the UK we were discussing when the point was made.

Actually it was not made.

Grant said:
Sure. How about this?

"Yeah, there are abominable practices among some groups, there are local councils foolishly granting money to mosques without thinking about what they're actually spending the money on – however what I fail to see is where this is taking over the UK or changing the secular nature of our society. Can you demonstrate please?"

That was you on this thread.

Ah, yes. It was my mistaken throwaway comment but then there is but one example on Brick Lane.

Grant said:
Actually it was me who said the UK is not truly secular.

Yes but your understanding of “secularism” is more akin to a description of atheism – that has a link to religion's wax or wane; “secularism” does not.

Grant said:
What?? You don't really understand the difference between "religious tolerance" and "funding religion"???

That wasn't what I was asking for a link to.

Grant said:
Link to what? I was giving you an opinion! You can dispute it if you choose to.

OK, I thought you had facts to back you up.

Grant said:
That's what I've been telling you, that the evidence suggests, despite your claims, that the UK is not secular. In fact it is moving in the opposite direction..

There we go again – you're confusing atheism with secularism again. If you're not going to read and cogitate what secualrism means – we'll remain on this merry go round.

Grant said:
You seem confused, Which part of the statement, and please quote it, do you not understand?

As I thought when I asked the question - at the first point of my asking for a clarification – you dodge.

Grant said:
-- Who really cares? It's there, you're stuck with it, and whose fault it is is quite beside the point.

Claims that this is all “the left's fault” are scattered throughout this thread. I remember asking why some of you were so attached to labels and pigeonholes.

William Rea · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

alexa said:
Well yes, I would agree with you there and I am aware that I absent mindedly followed what others were saying and used the word 'law' when these are arbitrations. As I understand it things cannot contradict British Law. Hence why legally people must get divorced under British Law...but if they want to remarry under the religion of Islam they must satisfy the religious requirements. This is a problem in many religions and is totally to do with whether a person wants to be part of that religion.

By the way I would prefer the abolition of all religious schools. I came to this conclusion after discovering how much the divide in N Ireland is being preserved by children still attending different schools and not getting to know each other. It won't happen though. The previous government promised more.

Couldn't agree more. "Faith" schools are poison.

paris · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Djoop said:
In my country, religious laws have a horrible reputation, the general notion is that holymen and courts don't mix very well.

Same here; but I just want to point out that our modern judges, lawyers, and prosecutors historically stem from the religious orders.

Just look how ridiculously they must dress

Djoop · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

paris said:
Same here; but I just want to point out that our modern judges, lawyers, and prosecutors historically stem from the religious orders.

Just look how ridiculously they must dress

Sure, I'm just glad we moved in a different direction and I don't want religion back in these institutions. Surely muslims should be allowed to marry in mosques, but they will also have to sign the documents at City hall. As far as mediation goes, I don't see a need for a contract with the government, basicly anyone could be a mediator between two conflicting parties.

Grant · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

One example only I'm afraid and during a very right wing Govt. Gives the lie to claims that it's all the “left” that does these things.

So you feel that it is both the Left and the right who has contributed to the Britain we find today. Not much of a middle it seems.

Anyhow – you've reminded me, I've answered your questions – please answer mine – when will the 3% of muslims across all Europe replace the other 97% of the population that so that we should wet our beds at night with fear of the prospect?

Judging by your question, if you are at all serious, you probably don't understand what's happening, Do you understand demographics? Immigration and emigration? Are you familiar with the term "White Flight? Are you aware that many Muslims, and non Muslims, feel the transfer of power in the UK will be in about 60 years, two generations. But no fear. Probably most of them will not be terrorists; There will be no further need to continue to wet your bed, just to follow instructions,

The UK will gradually drift toward Islamification within two generation, about 60 years. You have nothing to fight against it.

Conflating secularism with the wax or wane of any religion is not an understanding of secularism I'm afraid. Try the links I posted you again please.

Better yet, try reading what I wrote again. Perhaps then you'll have a better understanding before you comment. The definition you sent was 'the separation of Church and state' and we can see that that separation, by your own examples, is decreasing. You really need to read and edit your own posts before you submit them if you want a coherent discussion.

Yes but your understanding of “secularism” is more akin to a description of atheism – that has a link to religion's wax or wane; “secularism” does not.

You don't feel that the linkage between Church and State has waxed and waned over the years? LOL!! And this from a European!!

Ah, yes. It was my mistaken throwaway comment but then there is but one example on Brick Lane.

Actually you had another 'throwaway comment' regarding the Thatcher governments connection with building mosques. It seems you are relying on "throwaway comments" rather then concerning yourself with facts, and those facts you do submit appear to be accidental.

Yes but your understanding of “secularism” is more akin to a description of atheism – that has a link to religion's wax or wane; “secularism” does not.

I am using the definition you supplied. If you don't understand then quote those parts and I'll try to explain more clearly.

That wasn't what I was asking for a link to.

Yes, it was' Look at your own post.

OK, I thought you had facts to back you up.

Which facts would you want? Do you dispute the remarks?

There we go again – you're confusing atheism with secularism again. If you're not going to read and cogitate what secualrism means – we'll remain on this merry go round.

Read your own definition, then read my comments a few more times until you understand what they actually say. I am not confusing atheism with secularism. I am saying that the linkage between the State and religion is growing. Why are you having such difficulty with this? It has nothing to do with atheism.

As I thought when I asked the question - at the first point of my asking for a clarification – you dodge.

Please use the quotes and we'll see what I'm dodging.

Claims that this is all “the left's fault” are scattered throughout this thread. I remember asking why some of you were so attached to labels and pigeonholes.

Well according to you it is the Left and Right who supports the Islamification of Britain. I suppose the 'white flight' then is the middle. Would that be your assessment?

Infinite Chaos · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Grant said:
-- Judging by your question, if you are at all serious, you probably don't understand what's happening, Do you understand demographics? Immigration and emigration? Are you familiar with the term "White Flight? Are you aware that many Muslims, and non Muslims, feel the transfer of power in the UK will be in about 60 years, two generations. But no fear. Probably most of them will not be terrorists; There will be no further need to continue to wet your bed, just to follow instructions,

You think that Muslims will outnumber everyone else in Europe in 60 years. That 22 million muslims across europe will outnumber the other 831.4 million...

Can a Moderator please threadban me from this thread "discussion?"

There is nothing more to discuss in any semblence of polite discussion.

Goodbye.

Grant · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Infinite Chaos said:
You think that Muslims will outnumber everyone else in Europe in 60 years. That 22 million muslims across europe will outnumber the other 831.4 million...

Can a Moderator please threadban me from this thread "discussion?"

There is nothing more to discuss in any semblence of polite discussion.

Goodbye.

As is your habit, you cannot seem to read what is being posted. I did not say "Muslims will outnumber everyone else in Europe in 60 years".

It seems either you lack reading skills, or a pesky medical problem might have led to your continued difficulties regarding comprehension. It is this that has probably led to your current frustrations.

Perhaps you should find a hobby where reading and comprehension skills play a lesser role in your activities. Then you might enjoy life's simpler pleasures more fully.

Gardener · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Grant said:
As is your habit, you cannot seem to read what is being posted. I did not say "Muslims will outnumber everyone else in Europe in 60 years".

It seems either you lack reading skills, or a pesky medical problem might have led to your continued difficulties regarding comprehension. It is this that has probably led to your current frustrations.

Perhaps you should find a hobby where reading and comprehension skills play a lesser role in your activities. Then you might enjoy life's simpler pleasures more fully.

and here, at a time when yet another British-educated Islamist has attempted to blow people up as the U.K. exports its terrorism to other countries, the loyalty shown to the Islamist agenda only increases.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and what these politically correct British supporters of the Islamist agenda have not learned is that it doesn't take a majority to have some profound impacts upon civilization, just an extremely committed nucleus aligned in common purpose and with unshakable faith in their agenda. The image of the fasces as chosen to represent the ideology named for it -- fascism -- was chosen to represent that exact concept.

Grant · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Gardener said:
and here, at a time when yet another British-educated Islamist has attempted to blow people up as the U.K. exports its terrorism to other countries, the loyality shown to the Islamist agenda only increases.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and what these politically correct British supporters of the Islamist agenda have not learned is that it doesn't take a majority to have some profound impacts upon civilization, just an extremely committed nuclues aligned in common purpose and with unshakeable faith in their agenda. The image of the fasces as chosen to represent the ideology named for it -- fascism -- was chosen to represent that exact concept.

what these politically correct British supporters of the Islamist agenda have not learned is that it doesn't take a majority to have some profound impacts upon civilization, just an extremely committed nuclues aligned in common purpose and with unshakeable faith in their agenda.

Exactly! And all of this while British society is sharply divided between Left and Right, plus a host of other internal problems. A House divided......

gunner · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Gardener said:
and here, at a time when yet another British-educated Islamist has attempted to blow people up as the U.K. exports its terrorism to other countries, the loyalty shown to the Islamist agenda only increases.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and what these politically correct British supporters of the Islamist agenda have not learned is that it doesn't take a majority to have some profound impacts upon civilization, just an extremely committed nucleus aligned in common purpose and with unshakable faith in their agenda. The image of the fasces as chosen to represent the ideology named for it -- fascism -- was chosen to represent that exact concept.

Radical Islam is global. That means it is in no way confined by borders so suggesting the UK has exported some kind of radical Islamist is showing a naivety or shielding an agenda. Once again you seem to have neglected the facts in favour of alarmist propaganda.

He arrived in the UK in 2001 after living in Sweden from 1992. So he spent a whole 9 years, bar travel, in the UK.

"In a profile on the Muslim dating website Muslim, Abdaly said he was born in Baghdad and moved to Sweden in 1992, before arriving in the UK in 2001 to study"

Not only that, he was 'outed' at his local mosque by the mosques Iman. This shows mainstream Muslim intolerance for extremism. Something you neglect to mention.

"It has emerged that Abdaly had attended the Luton Islamic Centre but left after other members accused him of having a "distorted view" of Islam".

BBC News - Stockholm bomber 'aimed to kill many people'

So what we have here is another Muslim radicalised for a myriad of reasons. He actually states its due to Afghanistan and Sweden's involvement and the drawings of Mohamed.
Its fortunate that he looks to have been shunned by mainstream Muslims, that can only be a good thing.

Paul

Grant · Dec 14, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

gunner said:
gunner said:

Radical Islam is global. That means it is in no way confined by borders so suggesting the UK has exported some kind of radical Islamist is showing a naivety or shielding an agenda. Once again you seem to have neglected the facts in favour of alarmist propaganda.

Click to expand...

I doubt there is a poster here who doesn't realize that Islamism is a global problem. Few places, if any, have been left untouched by its violence. When discussing the problem with Brits we'll be more likely to point out British problems to those who deny, or downplay, this global problem.

He arrived in the UK in 2001 after living in Sweden from 1992. So he spent a whole 9 years, bar travel, in the UK.

This shows mainstream Muslim intolerance for extremism. Something you neglect to mention.

Click to expand...

Why? Are you not aware that most Muslims are not terrorists? Why do you need this constant reinforcement?

"It has emerged that Abdaly had attended the Luton Islamic Centre but left after other members accused him of having a "distorted view" of Islam".

Click to expand...

And there are several Muslims sects who feel others have a "distorted ' view of Islam. These accusations, often followed by Muslim on Muslim violence, are not uncommon.

BBC News - Stockholm bomber 'aimed to kill many people'

So what we have here is another Muslim radicalised for a myriad of reasons. He actually states its due to Afghanistan and Sweden's involvement and the drawings of Mohamed.
Its fortunate that he looks to have been shunned by mainstream Muslims, that can only be a good thing.

Click to expand...

Sure it's a good thing. It has already been established that not all Muslims are terrorists so we really shouldn't be surprised that there are Muslims who would condemn murder.

However, there are sufficient numbers of Muslims, and Islamic leaders, who are eager to promote Islam any way they can and will encourage murder, martyr-ism, etc. in order to achieve their goals.

These are the ones we should be concerned with.

Hardline takeover of British mosques -Times Online

Redress · Dec 15, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Moderator's Warning:

Grant is now banned from this thread.

Laila · Dec 15, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

Grant said:
You might not liked to be lumped together with radical Islam but the moment you don your burka and step outside the door you become a symbol of Islam rather that just another person going about their business. It overrides who you are as an individual.r

I don't wear a burka.

And ofc I don't like being lumped with radicals but that is not my problem.
That is the issue for those who hate Islam and Muslims and are prejudiced problem. Those who are so close minded and ignorant to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few. They are not the people who I hope to change minds because minds that poisoned with hate and prejudices will never change. No doubt if it wasn't Islam, it would be something else

I hope to influence those who wish to understand Islam and Muslims. You may notice I respond better to some posters than others on this forum and it is because I know which ones will always cling onto their dislike and those who wish to learn. I can differentiate between the two.

Djoop said:
This thread almost became interesting when I saw the exchange between Laila and Gardener. Unfortunately, we’re back with partisan comments, we see the same arguments repeated over and over.

That is how Islam threads always descends into. You get used to it :shrug:

Republic_Of_Public · Dec 15, 2010

Re: Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up hi

I don't wear a burka.

No, but you wear a hijab, as you stated when you mentioned being spat on. Such a difference is probably trivial to the point of the argument.

And ofc I don't like being lumped with radicals but that is not my problem.

Oh good. Perhaps you'll tell me now whether or not you repudiate Koran 9:29 as being irrelevant in modern Britain. It was easy enough to criticise the Saudi schools wasn't it.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=282392

Those who are so close minded and ignorant to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few.

All I tended to see was people judging Islam by the behaviour of people who follow it. But still, shoot the messenger.

Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence in Germany is arrested for beating up his...

Djoop

Grant

alexa

Infinite Chaos

Grant

Infinite Chaos

William Rea

paris

Djoop

Grant

Infinite Chaos

Grant

Gardener

free market communist

Grant

gunner

Grant

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!

Laila

Republic_Of_Public