Britain expels Israeli diplomat

Picaro · Mar 23, 2010

Apocalypse said:
There's nothing legal about terrorists.

Of course not, but the people whining about all this like to pretend they are 'legitimate combatants', so why not indulge them and agree?

Picaro · Mar 23, 2010

Laila said:
They are not legal.
And the death did not occur in warfare. It happened on neutral or rather unagressive territory unconnected with the individual.

They are at war, and Dubai is fair territory; it has no extradition treaties, and it knowingly harbors international criminals of all stripes, including Hamas officials, so yes, they are 'connected', and are in no position to whine about it.

Thanks, I know UK passports are superior in many ways but the bottom line is still the same. Thatcher expelled the entire embassy last time an issue like this occurred and gave assurances it would not happen again. If Miliband says evidence points to Israel, that means they lied and cannot uphold a bargain.

That 'can't hold a bargain' meme is pretty funny, given Britain's history with Jews in general and especially its antic in the ME for the last century or so.

Use German passports or African/Asian

They probably do already.

Anti Semitism, if I had a pound for every time that card is pulled whenever Israel gets criticised. I'd be bloody rich.

If I had a nickel for every antisemite who claimed they weren't antisemites, I would handsomely rich, myself.

As I recall, several European countries had no problems issuing passports to terrorists coming to the U.S., as well as other countries, for less than legitimate activities, so pot, kettle, black, and all that.

mbig · Mar 23, 2010

Laila said:
Don't tell other countries not to worry when citizens are potentially put in danger by a heightened risk if it in use during badly-done assassinations and the UK passport is being misused DESPITE the fact that assurances were given on the contrary

And I ask you, who cares about Israelis? Israel should. Not UK. UK Government first and foremost should worry about British citizens.
The Israeli government may feel it is doing its best to defend its citizens, but at the same time people must acknowledge that the British government must protect theirs

AS I said at the bottom of the last page, other countries should do what they have to. (Just as the UK would do if IT was at War)

But Israel is is a Real and Ongoing WAR with Hamas. And if a country shelters a supplier of Arms to Hamas....
Ding Dong.. that's Not Avon calling!
Let's see how many want this guys job now.

Next.

Laila · Mar 23, 2010

mbig said:
AS I said at the bottom of the last page, other countries should do what they have to. (Just as the UK would do if IT was at War)

But Israel is is a Real and Ongoing WAR with Hamas. And if a country shelters a supplier of Arms to Hamas....
Ding Dong.. that's Not Avon calling!
Let's see how many want this guys job now.

Next.

UK is at war genius.
We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan are we not? :roll:

Once again, I don't care what Israel does. Don't bring UK into it. I don't care if that is passports or any other way.
If Israel wishes to off someone, go ahead and use an American passport.

Laila · Mar 23, 2010

Picaro said:
They are at war, and Dubai is fair territory; it has no extradition treaties, and it knowingly harbors international criminals of all stripes, including Hamas officials, so yes, they are 'connected', and are in no position to whine about it.

Yeah right, Israel strolls into a pretty much neutral country and shoots someone and that is 'fair territory'?
Dubai would be under its own rights to ban any Israeli crossing it borders and seeing if 'weapon deals and criminals' are there, then that would be a blow for Israel.

Of course Dubai has a right to bitch.
UK did when Russia killed one of its own spies.
We didn't give a **** the spy was dead, it was the fact it occurred on British territory and put citizens in danger. This is nothing new
Upholding UK laws is what is important here. We have done nothing new, forging of passports is a crime.

If I had a nickel for every antisemite who claimed they weren't antisemites, I would handsomely rich, myself.

The word has lost all meaning seeing it is thrown around in almost every thread at some point.

Picaro · Mar 23, 2010

Why shouldn't they use passports from the same countries terrorists use to travel around in the West ???

It's a discriminatory double standard, based on ethnicity, to deny Israelis the same rights of travel terrorists use. Why expel Israelis while allowing Dubai or any other Arab country that harbors murderers to keep their consulates and embassies?

alexa · Mar 23, 2010

Just been listening to this on the news. We are taking this very seriously.

One person apparently went to bed an ordinary citizen and woke up a wanted man. We are being advised to be very careful if we go to Israel and try to avoid letting officials take our passports.

French, Irish and Australians also had their identity's stolen.

We hear in Israel they are calling us 'antisemetic dogs'. David Milliband, himself is of course a Jew.

mbig · Mar 23, 2010

Laila said:
UK is at war genius.
We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan are we not? :roll:

Yes and the UK is not doubt using No illegal means to Monitor several Thousand of it's own Radical Muslims (it's identified), as well as being participansts/allies in the Death of innocents when Drones happen to hit an extended Pakistani Family having Dinner.
And/but here we are all Hysterical because Israel killed 1 Hamas member (on target) in Dubai!

Once again, I don't care what Israel does. Don't bring UK into it. I don't care if that is passports or any other way.
If Israel wishes to off someone, go ahead and use an American passport.

That's bright! Use your Best Allies passport! &*^*&^&^##%$&6
Brilliante!
And not being British, as 99% of this board, I could give a Rat's ass about the UK.
-

Laila · Mar 23, 2010

Picaro said:
Why expel Israelis while allowing Dubai or any other Arab country that harbors murderers to keep their consulates and embassies?

Did the Saudis use a UK passport to kill someone? How about make a British citizen a wanted man?

Is that a No I hear?

Laila · Mar 23, 2010

mbig said:
And not being British, as 99% of this board, I could give a Rat's ass about the UK.
-

And likewise I could give a toss about any other country other than UK. What is your point?

Laila · Mar 23, 2010

Hmm, a thread already exists in BN section.

Picaro · Mar 23, 2010

Laila said:
Did the Saudis use a UK passport to kill someone? How about make a British citizen a wanted man?

Is that a No I hear?

You probably need to have your ears checked. It took about 30 seconds to find this stuff:

London, Feb 21 (ANI): A secret British Home Office document has revealed that terrorists are “cleaning” their passports to arouse less suspicion at airports.

After making trips to places like training camps in Afghanistan or Pakistan, many plotters apply for a new British passport.

A new passport will have no trace of previous visits, News of the World reports.

They say their old one with visa stamps recording the dodgy visit has been lost. And the new “clean” passport contains no record of the trip.

The method, used by terrorists who plotted to blow up jets flying from London in 2006, is described as a key enabler in committing an act of terror.

Passports

The news report I have attached below addresses the efforts of a British citizen by the name of Rajib Karim who acquired his British citizenship through that country's naturalization process. I certainly will not profess to have any expertise in the way that Great Britain processes applications for naturalization, but the point worth noting is that Mr. Karim would not need a visa in order to enter the United States because Great Britain is one of some 36 nations that participate in the Visa Waiver Program.

Karim was born in Bangladesh and most certainly as a citizen of Bangladesh, he would have needed a visa in order to seek to enter the United States.

While I do not know the motivation that Rajib Karim may have had for seeking to acquire a British passport, but it is worth noting that terrorist organizations place a high value on citizens of those European nations that do participate in that wrong-headed program.

The other issue is the issue of the naturalization process that enables aliens to change their citizenship or, possibly add to their countries of citizenship. One of the disturbing issues is the fact that Great Britain has, from what I have read, hundreds of thousands of dual national citizens who, in addition to being citizens of Great Britain, hold citizenship (and passports) of Pakistan and other so-called "special interest" countries such as Bangladesh.

Response to 'British Airways Employee Faces Terrorism Charges'

So why single out Israel??? Of course, we know why already, don't we?

Laila · Mar 23, 2010

And in both those cases, I get the sense the home office was doing something about passport fraud and MPs criticising. Why should Israel be exempt?

I do not understand what the big deal is.

Picaro · Mar 23, 2010

Laila said:
And in both those cases, I get the sense the home office was doing something about passport fraud and MPs criticising. Why should Israel be exempt?

I do not understand what the big deal is.

Well, are there any plans to expel Bangladeshi diplomats? Afghanistan's?

gunner · Mar 23, 2010

Apocalypse said:
Who cares?
Every intelligence agency that operates beyond its nation's borders(NSA, KGB, Mossad, MI6, etc.) is making use of foreign passports.

I don't even blame the British government for the action, as they didn't have much choice seeing the situation that they are at.
The absolute majority of the British public believes that Israel is behind the terrorist-chief's killing, and Gordon Brown's Labour party is doing bad in popularity.
Such a populist action is life-saving for them.

I actually applaud them for the fact that they didn't go too far and have only banished the Mossad's representative in the kingdom.

I will add Britain were probably left 'NO' choice, let alone 'much' choice. The sloppiness of the operation is what puzzles me, when trying to portion 100% blame with Mossad.

Paul

alexa · Mar 23, 2010

gunner said:
I will add Britain were probably left 'NO' choice, let alone 'much' choice. The sloppiness of the operation is what puzzles me, when trying to portion 100% blame with Mossad.

Paul

From Channel 4 news it appeared the operation was putting the lives of our citizens at risk and that is one of the things which is of prime importance to the foreign office. What Pete said earlier was correct.

This is concerning the personal safety of our citizens and it is paramount the State protect us.

Milliband also said it was an attack on our sovereignty. I'm not clear yet what he meant by that.

So, whether or not a person believes that law is important, we cannot have another country putting the lives of our citizens at risk.

Not acceptable.

mbig · Mar 23, 2010

Laila said:
\
And likewise I could give a toss about any other country other than UK. What is your point?

My point was the same as yours.,. EXCEPT/DUH, as I pointed out this board is an American one in Great majority.. so your suggestion that Israel should use it's Best Ally's/America's passports was not only Goofy tactically, but you're (unfortunately) on a board where the great majority of the board are American NOT British.
-

gunner · Mar 23, 2010

alexa said:
From Channel 4 news it appeared the operation was putting the lives of our citizens at risk and that is one of the things which is of prime importance to the foreign office. What Pete said earlier was correct.

This is concerning the personal safety of our citizens and it is paramount the State protect us.

Milliband also said it was an attack on our sovereignty. I'm not clear yet what he meant by that.

So, whether or not a person believes that law is important, we cannot have another country putting the lives of our citizens at risk.

Not acceptable.

Alexa, i,m not disputing the importance of the role the state has in its protection of citizens or objecting to your other points.

One point i would question is how do feel it places our citizens in danger? If, as has been reported our Special Branch have exonerated all who had their passports stolen...so who would be doing the harming?

But, i,m just not shocked in the way many observers seem to be. If it is indeed a Mossad operation [which i,m not entirely convinced] but i,ll go along with the narrative for ease of discussion, it should be of little surprise to find this kind of action taking place. Whether i condone, or condemn this incident is of little relevance- i,m not naive enough to think it does not happen.

Paul

Red_Dave · Mar 23, 2010

Picaro said:
Why shouldn't they use passports from the same countries terrorists use to travel around in the West ???

It's a discriminatory double standard, based on ethnicity, to deny Israelis the same rights of travel terrorists use. Why expel Israelis while allowing Dubai or any other Arab country that harbors murderers to keep their consulates and embassies?

Since when has the UK given rights to terrorists? We detain and torture the people we *think* are terrorists without trial(see Binyamin Mohamed), even if they arent. What planet are living on?

P.S Nice to see the " 'you,re and anti-semite', 'no im not' 'Aha! thats exactly what an anti-semite would say!" argument is as central as ever to the debate as ever.`

alexa · Mar 23, 2010

gunner said:
Alexa, i,m not disputing the importance of the role the state has in its protection of citizens or objecting to your other points.

One point i would question is how do feel it places our citizens in danger? If, as has been reported our Special Branch have exonerated all who had their passports stolen...so who would be doing the harming?

But, i,m just not shocked in the way many observers seem to be. If it is indeed a Mossad operation [which i,m not entirely convinced] but i,ll go along with the narrative for ease of discussion, it should be of little surprise to find this kind of action taking place. Whether i condone, or condemn this incident is of little relevance- i,m not naive enough to think it does not happen.

Paul

I wasn't having a go at you Paul, the news made me angry. You can read what I wrote after I first saw it in post 32 here

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68785-britain-expels-israeli-diplomat-4.html#post1058636834

People may have been exonerated but they could just as easily have been killed.

What reason do you have to doubt what Milliband says?

We do though differ. I believe in the rule of law and I do not support another country stealing the passports of my country people and their identities and putting them at risk.

alexa · Mar 23, 2010

alexa said:
We do though differ. I believe in the rule of law and I do not support another country stealing the passports of my country people and their identities and putting them at risk.

and you weren't either, apologies.

I think it is the way this has happened. Using passports of British citizens could very well have put them at risk and resulted in Miliband feeling the need to make the point in Parliament that Britain had nothing to do with what happened. I guess that's what he meant by an attack on our sovereignty. Might well have given the impression we were behind it.

It isn't that it is a surprise that Israel would do this, it is doing it under the cover of us and without our approval and putting our people at risk. Like Miliband said, not the way you treat an ally.

PeteEU · Mar 24, 2010

alexa said:
Milliband also said it was an attack on our sovereignty. I'm not clear yet what he meant by that.

He means that only the UK government can make and give people these passports, no one else.

Britain expels Israeli diplomat

Picaro

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