Even the drippy churchmen are seeing the light..

MPs 'bullying Christianity out of UK in name of political correctness,' claims Lord Carey | Mail Online

For too long have trendy-Left idiots confused secularism with out-and-out attacks on decent values based on Christian principles. In order not to offend the likes of single sluts who have 2 kids before 20, Jack Straw claims there was never a golden age of marriage, backing that up with his government's increased tax burden for married parents. (I'd like to see Mrs. Average be rammed up the housing queue when announcing a pregnancy.)

When some Labour people have had pangs of conscience over the ruling party's madness, for example Ruth Kelly's Christian thoughts on homosexuals, they're hounded out by other rabid Reds. Christmas is sidelined to make more room for official festivals of foreign cultures, with Lefties claiming that Christmas or Christian values would be too offensive if celebrated too overtly. (And that goes for Britishness in general too, hence the downplaying of St. George's day.)

But my sympathy for Carey is limited. This politically-correct buffoon, whose successor now claims that Sharia Law is inevitable in Britain, himself presided over a period during which happy-clappy vicars helped push parishioners away from a more traditional, morality-based church.

It's common for many western nations to try and silence Christianity. It's a shame what Labour has done. What I find ironic is that they few Christianity to be offensive, so the silence Christian morals and Christian teachings while at the same time give certain communities special protection and Shari'ah courts. What would happen if a Christian community wanted the UK to hand over legal sovereignty and establish some form of ultra moral Christian court system? It's hypocrisy and it's limiting the freedom of religion when it comes to Christians in the sense of silencing them and saying it's all "offensive." I think Christianity and Christian morals are seen as an enemy to what the Labour party wants to do.

Poor Christians:roll:

digsbe said:

It's common for many western nations to try and silence Christianity. It's a shame what Labour has done. What I find ironic is that they few Christianity to be offensive, so the silence Christian morals and Christian teachings while at the same time give certain communities special protection and Shari'ah courts. What would happen if a Christian community wanted the UK to hand over legal sovereignty and establish some form of ultra moral Christian court system? It's hypocrisy and it's limiting the freedom of religion when it comes to Christians in the sense of silencing them and saying it's all "offensive." I think Christianity and Christian morals are seen as an enemy to what the Labour party wants to do.

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And you know all about the status of Christian morals, Shar'ia courts and the policies of the British Labour government, do you Digsbe? What exactly is your direct experience of these things? As a matter of fact Christian Ecclesiastical courts do exist in the UK. As do Jewish Beth Din courts. Shar'ia courts? Erm... they enjoy the exact same status as the Beth Din courts i.e. they only have jurisdiction over those parties who accept that jurisdiction. Neither party can be subjected to Shar'ia involuntarily. Now, what was your point?

Seeing as Andalablue now turns to face to the wall when I'm on, I think I can safely say without fear of contradiction that Christian values have been the bedrock of our culture, in whatever form, since Roman times, when the Empire adopted it as its official religion.

Digsbe may agree when I say that Christian ecclesiastical courts are in full accord with the moral values based on what we take to be the teachings of Christ and his adherents. Fair play and tolerance for sensible others (as long as they have tolerance and acceptance of us) are values long held to be sacred by we British, hence the ease of leftists like Andalablue to hijack these terms for politically-correct ends.

These days such ecclesiastical courts are reduced to trying a severely limited number of cases, though the Common Law which ordinary courts stuck by was very much shaped by the sense of justice and fair play upheld by the Christian culture, especially in post-Reformation eras. Hence the ultimate incompatibilty of institutions like Sharia, especially when taken to its logical extremity.


Is this the last word on the subject Andalablue? Good.

Archbishop of Canterbury in stinging attack on 'wooden-headed bureaucratic silliness' in Easter sermon | Mail Online

If even 'Shariaman', employed for his PC credentials, is noticing something amiss then we're already further down the road to ruin than previously thought!

Rowan Williams is one of the reasons that the Cof E is an irrelevence in modern Britain.

Disclaimer: I've never been to Britain.

I have, however, been told by Brits of my acquaintance that the C of E isn't taken very seriously by something like 99% of the populace, but is rather seen as simply an "English traditional institution" and what respect it has is based more on that than any real Christian sentiments or deeply held beliefs.

Is this information accurate? If so, what bearing does it have on the question of whether Labor is forcing Christianity out of the UK? Is a lack of great regard by the majority of the populace facilitating this?

Goshin said:

Disclaimer: I've never been to Britain.

I have, however, been told by Brits of my acquaintance that the C of E isn't taken very seriously by something like 99% of the populace, but is rather seen as simply an "English traditional institution" and what respect it has is based more on that than any real Christian sentiments or deeply held beliefs.

Is this information accurate? If so, what bearing does it have on the question of whether Labor is forcing Christianity out of the UK? Is a lack of great regard by the majority of the populace facilitating this?

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Labour is the same as most modern left wing political parties.
They want to radically change society.
Religion binds the people.
Destroy religion and another obstacle is removed.
ditto patriotism, marriage and self respect

When the Church of England is forced to give up its twenty five seats in the British Parliament's second chamber then I might take notice of these paranoiac ramblings.

Around 15% of the UK population attend church at least once a month in the UK, yet around 85% identify themselves as 'Christian'. So when mouth-flapping rightists talk about preserving our 'Christian' culture what they are talking about is maintaining all the traditionalist, reactionary aspects of Britain's past, just without the religious obligations.

I could understand the wailing about Britain ceasing to be a Christian country with Christian morals if those doing the bleating actually practiced what they preach. Quick straw poll...how often do you go the church RoP? Beaver?

Yes, I believe that it's way past the time when the CofE should be disestablished; the ban on Catholics acceding to the throne, loss of Lords' seats for bishops, the lot. However, the CofE is the best of a poor bunch of religious organisations. Rowan Williams is a good man with an impossible job. He presides over a Worldwide church of 150 million split into three parts each with a towering enmity for the other. He is, mostly, a liberal but the leaders of the Church in many parts of the World are hard-right traditionalists and reactionaries, hence the CofE's global decline.

It's often said, and I agree, that the moral side of Christianity is what truly remains of our national faith for most people. Ever since Darwin, the widely-held belief that all in the Bible is literally true has shrunk to a stump.

But the moral side of traditional Christian culture is as important as ever. It helped frame our outlook over the centuries. I don't believe the church should be dis-established, not least because there isn't really anything else as strongly moral to replace it with. Not if you discount political correctness as I do. Even old Rowan sniffs a bit of a rat with that.


I have to confess that I go to church a lot less than I ought to. But there's not much incentive when all you'd get is just a New Labour happy-clappy propaganda broadcast covered in scent. I've heard too many of those.

I don't think Rowan Williams is bad, just daft or not in touch. Which is one reason why the pews are so empty and lacking the bottoms of even many people who'd love to go back for spiritual uplift. In fact it's the African ministers and bishops to look to for a good moral attitude nowadays than the likes of Williams who offend them all the time. Indeed, when I visited a black church for a possible recording job in my town I was struck by how much more decent and wholesome they were compared to our own lot now.

paris said:

Poor Christians:roll:

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and why do you say that?

I understand peoples fear of "church" influence in government, but when that influence is gone, which it will be in the next 20 years, we are in for a whole new world of immorality.

I agree that Christian morals have been the bedrock of civilization, and provided a moral ground by which we attempt to me more civil to each other. In the absense of those morals a new morality will take over, and it will be founded on selfishness and intolerance, because it will be humanistic and hedonistic. As fun as that might sound, society will suffer horribly.