kaya'08

Alarm spreads over Europe's massive deficits - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

I thought id post this since the Eurofascists on this forum have remained suspiciously tight lipped.
I suspect they will post here dismissing such reports as nonsense, but we in the real world know better.

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Maximus Zeebra

Its great that they finally unveil these things, at a time when the value of the Euro need to decrease.

Great tactic.

No surprise that focus have been on the Southern states of Europe, no surprise that is where the fiscal problems are mostly. But its worrying that Greece has been focused on, Spain has been focused on, and recently Portugal, while everyone have overlooked the worst of them all. Italy.

Also, dont forget France and the UK.

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Again I am being harassed by the Nationalist Republican Fascists.
Pathetic antiphilosophers and blind agenda followers. These people live in a society that has become a dogmatic closed society, and they are in full denial about it, the strongest human defense mechanism. Incredibly sad....

Dutch

..... here and I thought everything was just hunky dory over there. Strangely it seems to be for the same reason as over here, damn capitalists have all run off with everyone's money. Pity.

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He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

Lord Tammerlain

France is not as bad off as the UK or Ireland

Germany is the most at risk for having to bailout the "PIGS" as it has the strongest balance sheet of the large EU nations.

But the talk of the EURO being in trouble because of massive debts, is somewhat overblown

If Greece leaves the EU, its debts remain in Euro's while its new currency would collapse, making its debts even more expensive.

Greece has two options, IMF bailout which includes drastic budget cuts, or no IMF bailout and drastic budget cuts. Germany will not bail out Greece, or Ireland or the Baltic nations without those countries making drastic cut to their budgets.

Rather ironic as just a few short years ago we had idiotic economists (generally Chicago or Austrian schools) suggesting Germany should become more like Ireland or the Baltics when it came to government and government taxation methods. Now the European countries that Germany was supposed to become more like, are all in deep financial doo doo

bub

One more reason why Turkey shouldn't join the EU. They should join the USA instead.

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Republic_Of_Public

Crap EU finance? Happens all the time......




EU member states too poor to dish out even more bloated wages to its civil servants face being SUED! This despite the fact that the European Union is already grabbing countless billions of Euros a year from its hapless citizenry.

Money which could be used to directly help nations through the recession is lost, fiddled, used to bankroll top-heavy EU centralisation and chronic wastes of resources.

...And as the full EU Superstate is still in gestation, you can be sure that we ain't seen nothing yet!






And let us not forget......



Our outrageously high 'subs' to the EU are about to be jacked up again. Gordon Brown must be made to explain why it's so important to bed-in with an EU determined to destroy our rebate just as its membership charges continue to soar through the roof.

SUBSIDIARY INFORMATION:
EU budget black hole – Telegraph Blogs

Brown stands firm on UK budget rebate - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Chirac claims glory after Blair loses EU rebate fight - Telegraph

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1058521243 (The EU and Democracy)


http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...eu-mighty.html (More cash required in the palaces of the EU mighty!!)



...And the Euro-loonies on this forum reject all this as 'spam'!

paris

Nonsense

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I am a Tiki Bar Tarte, Merde, ve pet-eh dans la fluers

Dutch

bout time you showed up.

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He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

Alvin T. Grey

The UK is not part of the Eurozone.

PeteEU

Not really, because it is a non story for the most part. It is funny that this story has not changed it tune that much since it first was launched way back in the 1990s.. the Euro is dead bla bla bla.

Oh you know better?

I dont dismiss these reports, I do however question the motives of those promoting the doom and gloom reports and where they come primarily from. I also question the conclusions as they do not often match the facts.

But lets look at the facts.

Explain why Spain is on the "doom list" then? The Spanish Debt vs GDP is expected to raise to 60% this year.. 60%!.. The US and UK would love to have that low a debt vs GDP lol. Sure Spain's unemployment is nutso high, but again Spain's unemployment has always been high even during the boom years. Yes during the boom years the unemployment number rarely went under 9%. So why is Spain on the "doom list"? Maybe because it is Spain that is presently leading the EU? If you go back and look at when these stories first started, then it was Greece and maybe a passing reference to Portugal and Spain.. and suddenly after 1. January, Spain got promoted to as big problem as Greece or even bigger.. wtf. kinda funny considering the facts.

And Portugal. Its debt vs GDP is not insane higher than the average in the industrialized world. In fact last I looked the Portuguese economy was doing okay with falling unemployment and economic growth and unlike Greece Portugal does have a history of cutting when needed. Plus Portugal is even smaller economy wise than Greece in the Euro Zone and relatively more backward on almost every front so it has growth potential if you can get over the political issues..

Now Greece.. well that has always been a head case (along with Italy) in European economies. Now this time around they cant devalue as they use too so now there might be a chance of change in Greece. I do not deny that Greece is a problem, nor do I deny I am worried about Greece, and the potential damage it might have on the Euro and Euro zone.. it is never good when a country or region goes bankrupt.

But lets be realistic.. and do some comparisons.

California is 13% of the US GDP, it is pretty much bankrupt. There has been talk about up to 41 states in the US nearing bankruptcy in 2010. Not a peep about the dollar union going to go bust and break up and worse is there now?

Greece and Portugal are around 5% of the Euro zone GDP.. if it is that much. Spain is a much much large portion of the Euro zone GDP, but it is also economically better off than most countries on many fronts, especially if we look at the state deficit which is falling and over all debt vs GDP.

So why the doom and gloom over the Euro zone and not the situation in the US which can be easily argued to be far worse? I mean California has had to send out IOUs for god sake.

Now I suspect personally it has something to do with the never ending attacks by US right wing economists and think tanks that have never liked the Euro zone project because they see it as a threat to US dominance over the world economy. If you look at who, and where the stories are being promoted by big time, then it is almost always the same people and organisations on both sides of the Atlantic.. the same people who have been saying this since the 1990s.

And lets not dismiss speculators. I have no doubt they are loving seeing the Euro fall with some certainty.. they can make a bundle off that and the longer that the Greece/Portugal/Spain story can be promoted and kept alive, the more the Euro can fall and the more they can earn... just saying it is not without precedence.. after all a big portion of the 140 dollar oil was due to speculation and the doom and gloom forecasts promoted by some.

So basically when the economic facts actually is in tune with the anti-Euro rhetoric then maybe it is time to start listening, but as it stands now it is in no way in tune.. quite the contrary.

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PeteEU