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Poll: UK Muslims have ZERO tolerance of Homosexuality. 0-fer-500

Ethereal said:
It was an absolute abomination, I agree. We took steps to end it though. Can't say the same for so-called moderate Muslims...



Allow me to be more specific. The treatment of women in Sunni Muslim countries is the shame of humanity, though it ain't so great in most Shia Muslim countries either. In the end, it boils down to ignorance mixed with religion; the same kind of mixture people on the left like to lament when it's Christian, but defend when it's Muslim.
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Why isnt this more to do with their country of origin, region of the world rather than their religion?

Youll find little tolerance of gays in slavic countries either.
 
alexa said:
No one has defended anything. Like Laila said, it is the agenda that is being questioned.
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I have no other agenda than to point out obvious facts.

Obvious fact: A substantial amount of Muslim women are treated like dirt.
 
creation said:
Why isnt this more to do with their country of origin, region of the world rather than their religion?

Youll find little tolerance of gays in slavic countries either.
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Its also worth bearing in mind that no one in Iran was forcing women to wear Islamic dress under Mohamed Mossadeq.
 
creation said:
Why isnt this more to do with their country of origin, region of the world rather than their religion?
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Because they use their religion as an excuse to kill people.

Youll find little tolerance of gays in slavic countries either.
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Then those Slavs should stop being assholes.
 
Red_Dave said:
Its also worth bearing in mind that no one in Iran was forcing women to wear Islamic dress under Mohamed Mossadeq.
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1. Actually, people were forcing them to wear Islamic dress; they're called husbands, brothers, and fathers.

2. How did Mohamed Mossadeq treat adulteresses, gays, or promiscuous women?
 
Red_Dave said:
Of course but its not as simple as people being either cultural Muslims who don't really believe in the religion and people who are crazed fundamentalist al-qaeda supporters, Most would be somewhere in the middle.
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Very true. Most people are too busy to be fanatics, trying to raise their families and scratch out a living.
 
mbig said:
(Rebutting alexa's Contention that I didn't include any of the rest)

And in FACT I Did add the other RELEVANT numbers which were better for France and Germany.
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Alexa said:
Your motivation for posting the article was to show British Muslims were the most opposed to Gays in Europe.

Your interest was not in understanding why that was, but rather a hope of making people think this was because British Muslims were more radical.

For that reason you only chose the part of the article which you believed showed British Muslims in a bad light.
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Incorrect.
As I said, I included the considerably better numbers for Both French and Germany Muslims in my FIRST Line, before even the excerpt itself!
I did NOT include the irrelevant Apologism (editorialization unique to) Guardian because as you unwittingly admit, other sources didn't.
And it was NOT the theme OF the piece.
UK Muslim Attitudes WERE the theme, not their unemployment (absurd apologia).



mbig said:
True, the Leftist Piece of crap Guardian, in full apology mode (and as panicked as you about these Disturbing numbers for which there is No excuse but Bigotry), went a wandering for IRRELEVANT economic factors, as the ridiculous 'unemployment' you cited.
And of course you just Unwittingly Admitted those OTHER issues NOT on the main point.
It IS a Study of Religous beliefs.
Be glad TO post other links for same, who don't go into full apology mode.
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alexa said:
Again it depends on motivation and interest. Your motivation is an attempt to stir up hatred and fear of Muslims.

This tactic, grounded in racism, has been going on for several years and has has led to Muslims being much more isolated and obvious as to their identity.
[.....]
You absolutely refuse to look at why Muslims have become isolated. You simply suggest they are all extremists.
You show no respect for people who peacefully study Islam. You show no understanding of a community struggling to find its identity and place in a society.
[.....]
Through discrimination Muslims are well over represented in the unemployment ques. A change here is one of the quickest ways to bring Muslims back into society.
[.....]
I want Muslims peacefully and hapipily integrated, free at last from the racism they have faced for years. You want .........?
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I want Muslims to integrate too.
Of course this will mean the abandonment of Literalism and deep Piety to a Koran which makes them Hate Homosexuals, Jews etc.
(Or a not-going-to-happen, 'NKJV' Koran.. or Perhaps a 'Mecca II' conference. LOL)

This is more likely to happen when Misguided Leftist wackos start Informing them they are Bigots, BECAUSE of the Literalism to a Book which, if taken so, is Hate speech, INSTEAD of treating their Bigotry [alone] as a privileged right.. Unlike they treat everyone Else.
When Empty/Reverse Racist Minds with UNthought out positions, only PC as Fashion, realize these Muslims are even worse and a very healthy majority (as opposed to small minority) of the Christian Fundamentalists they Selectively Bash.

AGAIN; FAKE liberal apologists had NO Response to this suggestion [Either] and characterization of their wrongheaded attitudes when I posted it:

Featured Article - WSJ.com
Sadly, Mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes Violence.
by TAWFIK HAMID //// April 3, 2007 //// Wall Street Journal
[........]
But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies.
Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam.
Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq.
Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology...."

".... Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become OBSTACLES to reforming Islam. Political Correctness among Westerners Obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity.
They find Socioeconomic or political EXCUSES for Islamist terrorism such as Poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel.
What incentive is there for Muslims to demand Reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist Barbarity?
[.....]
Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a façade of cultural relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot vote, drive cars and dress as they please.[.....]Western Appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem.
[.....]
Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an antiliberal system. They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.
[......]
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It's really just like a process of socialization/discipline/scolding/punishment children must go through as they grow up, except this may take generations.. if ever.
NEVER, if continually apologized for/condoned by Western Pinhead 'selecta-liberals' who excuse only one religion's intolerance.
-
 
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Ethereal said:
It was an absolute abomination, I agree. We took steps to end it though. Can't say the same for so-called moderate Muslims...



Allow me to be more specific. The treatment of women in Sunni Muslim countries is the shame of humanity, though it ain't so great in most Shia Muslim countries either. In the end, it boils down to ignorance mixed with religion; the same kind of mixture people on the left like to lament when it's Christian, but defend when it's Muslim.
Click to expand...

Are you going to answer my questions? Or continue to side-step each one?

As for "taking steps to end it" in America. Yeah right. It seems like every decade in American history is a bashing of whichever minority is the hot topic for those years.
 
Degreez said:
Are you going to answer my questions? Or continue to side-step each one?
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Exceptions to the rule.

As for "taking steps to end it" in America. Yeah right. It seems like every decade in American history is a bashing of whichever minority is the hot topic for those years.
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Would you rather be the average black man living in the US or the average woman living in a Muslim country?
 
Ethereal said:
Exceptions to the rule.



Would you rather be the average black man living in the US or the average woman living in a Muslim country?
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Woman living in a Muslim country.

Because the average black man living in the US is either in prison or in a casket. Name a black man that isn't in prison or dead, and I will then name you one extraordinary African American.
 
Degreez said:
Woman living in a Muslim country.

Because the average black man living in the US is either in prison or in a casket. Name a black man that isn't in prison or dead, and I will then name you one extraordinary African American.
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There's roughly 18 million black males in America. 0% of them are dead, and far less than 9 million of them are in prison.

Care to revise your statement?
 
Ethereal said:
There's roughly 18 million black males in America. 0% of them are dead, and far less than 9 million of them are in prison.

Care to revise your statement?
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That's quite a lot of extraordinary African Americans. None of them are average.
 
Degreez said:
Name a black man that isn't in prison or dead, and I will then name you one extraordinary African American.
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The Johnson family living across the street from me.

I will pass on your bizarre comment, and we'll have a good laugh. Such a scathing indictment of black men shouldn't go unnoticed.
 
Gardener said:
Except for those such as yourself who have.
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No Gardiner, you are just trolling again. I don't think there is one post in this thread which you have made which is anything other than trolling or baiting.
 
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Ethereal said:
I have no other agenda than to point out obvious facts.

Obvious fact: A substantial amount of Muslim women are treated like dirt.
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Whether that is true ot not was not the subject of this thread.

Agenda only to throw dirt on Muslims. Agenda to demonise them and spread hate and fear.

Ultimnately to dehumanise them.

Fine, you have your agenda. Just do not be silly enough to suggest it is not intelligent to question such an agenda. Do not be silly enough to suggest it is 'leftist' to question such a one sided position. Anyone can throw slogans but they are only there to brainwash. Do not be surprised if slogan like posts are questioned.
 
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mbig said:
Incorrect.
As I said, I included the considerably better numbers for Both French and Germany Muslims in my FIRST Line, before even the excerpt itself!
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I did not deny you did this. It fitted in with your wish which I have been privey to from another forum as well, to demonise British Muslims
mbig said:
I did NOT include the irrelevant Apologism (editorialization unique to) Guardian because as you unwittingly admit, other sources didn't.
And it was NOT the theme OF the piece.
UK Muslim Attitudes WERE the theme, not their unemployment (absurd apologia).
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Like I said, this has nothing to do with apology. It is to do with what your interest and motivation is. Whether you wish to demonise Muslims or sort out the issues. Whether you want Britain and Europe strongly Nationalist or whether you want temporary difficulties begun with racism solved.

mbig said:
I want Muslims to integrate too.
Of course this will mean the abandonment of Literalism and deep Piety to a Koran which makes them Hate Homosexuals, Jews etc.
(Or a not-going-to-happen, 'NKJV' Koran.. or Perhaps a 'Mecca II' conference. LOL)
Click to expand...

As I said you only see all Muslims as extremists. This is not accurate and indicates a desire to deceive.

Even people strongly involved in finding and exposing problems they may find in the Muslim community, know full and well that not all Muslims are the same. You step over the line.

A demonstration against Harrow mosque under the banner “Stop the Islamisation of Europe”, is as stupid and offensive as a demonstration against Harrow synagogue, under the banner “Stop the Zionisation of Europe”.

This has nothing to do with the necessary and legitimate work to counter extremism and antisemitism wherever and whenever it genuinely occurs. CST has raised awareness of the activities of extreme Islamist groups in the UK for many years. But to demonise an entire community, every Muslim and every mosque, in the way that SIOE does, shows exactly the kind of bigotry from which Jews have suffered so often in our history. For SIOE to appeal to Jews to support them shows a complete ignorance of the Jewish experience of being on the receiving end of exactly this type of politics.
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Jewish Issues Watchdog: Don’t be fooled by Islamophobia

Where do you get your idea that all British Muslims hate Jews for instance? This is not true but the belief may well be the basis of your hate.

Open letter: Muslim leaders denounce the rise in antisemitic attacks and call for community vigilance | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

EJP | News | UK | British Muslim leader moves towards reconciliation with Jews


Richard Stone: British Jews and Muslims are natural allies - Commentators, Opinion - The Independent

Muslims Against Anti-Semitism, Anti-Semitism in Europe, Islamophobia in Europe


There is also now a British organisation of both Muslims and Jews working together against antisemitism and islamophobia.

mbig said:
This is more likely to happen when Misguided Leftist wackos start Informing them they are Bigots, BECAUSE of the Literalism to a Book which, if taken so, is Hate speech, INSTEAD of treating their Bigotry [alone] as a privileged right.. Unlike they treat everyone Else.
When Empty/Reverse Racist Minds with UNthought out positions, only PC as Fashion, realize these Muslims are even worse and a very healthy majority (as opposed to small minority) of the Christian Fundamentalists they Selectively Bash.

AGAIN; FAKE liberal apologists had NO Response to this suggestion [Either] and characterization of their wrongheaded attitudes when I posted it:

Featured Article - WSJ.com
Click to expand...

This is just hate filled slogan talk. There is nothing here worth replying to.

mbig said:
It's really just like a process of socialization/discipline/scolding/punishment children must go through as they grow up, except this may take generations.. if ever.
NEVER, if continually apologized for/condoned by Western Pinhead 'selecta-liberals' who excuse only one religion's intolerance.
-
Click to expand...

No it is a process of undoing harm which has be done.
Muslims in Britain feel like aliens in their own society and say they are targeted like "the Jews of Europe", the country's first Muslim government minister said.
Click to expand...

British Muslims feel like 'Jews of Europe'

It is a choice on which way you wish to go. Whether you want to look at all sides of the picture and find ways to work towards mending things and allowing the population of Muslims in the UK to feel at home here or whether you are pushing for what is very likely to be the other outcome - Nationalists managing to gain power by spreading hate of Muslims. If that is what you want. Carry on the way you are going, just do not imagine your motivations are not spotted. Just be honest.
 
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Gardener said:
The Johnson family living across the street from me.

I will pass on your bizarre comment, and we'll have a good laugh. Such a scathing indictment of black men shouldn't go unnoticed.
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The Johnsons are one extraordinary family.

And what you call an "indictment" I call statistics:
Comparisons between whites and African-Americans

But please, continue with your baiting and trolling. It is really quite amusing.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Any additional public accusation of trolling will result in consequences.
 
Degreez said:
The Johnsons are one extraordinary family.

And what you call an "indictment" I call statistics:
Comparisons between whites and African-Americans

But please, continue with your baiting and trolling. It is really quite amusing.
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They are a nice, normal, middle class family. What a completely jaundaced view it must take to consider black people so inherently unworthy by nature that the mere act of owning a very modest home is something extrordinary.

What patronization.
 
alexa said:
Ultimnately to dehumanise them.

.
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What an odd inversion of reality, where the intense hatred of Gay people is defended as normal, but not accepting this intense hatred is an attempt to "dehumanize".

This is so irrational as to be the product of a very determined agenda, since the dehumanization is so obviously inherent in hatred of gay people rather than the rejection of such.
 
Gardener said:
What an odd inversion of reality, where the intense hatred of Gay people is defended as normal,
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Well this is just dishonesty. First of all even the source does not say that Muslims have an intense hatred of homosexuals and secondly I do not know of one person on this thread who has said they agree with the Muslim stated position.
Gardener said:
but not accepting this intense hatred is an attempt to "dehumanize".
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Again, no source was provided to say Muslims have intense hatred towards homosexuals. You know fine and well that the hatred refers to trying to isolate Muslims as the one group of people who everyone should hate, just like the Nazi's did with the Jews.

This can be illustrated immediately by your trying to suggest British Muslims have an 'intense hatred of Gays' when the article actually said
None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.
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Your need to exaggerate, your refusal to look at the wider picture, your need to only show negative things about Muslims and your refusal to see the diversity among Muslims is the demonising.
 
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Gardener said:
They are a nice, normal, middle class family. What a completely jaundaced view it must take to consider black people so inherently unworthy by nature that the mere act of owning a very modest home is something extrordinary.

What patronization.
Click to expand...

Interesting statistics. It looks as if Blacks and Hispanics commit way more crimes.
 
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