Pressure grows for free vote on embryo research

Infinite Chaos · 03-22-08, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Pressure mounts over embryo bill
The government faces mounting dissent over controversial embryo laws after the Archbishop of Cardiff joined calls for a free vote on the legislation.
The Most Reverend Peter Smith has advised MPs to vote against a bill which allows the creation of hybrid human-animal embryos for research. He joins other leading Catholics and Catholic MPs demanding to be allowed to vote in line with their conscience.

But Health Minister Ben Bradshaw said it was right to push through the law. Mr Bradshaw told the BBC the legislation would be "to the potential benefit of many people in this country".

'Sacredness of life'

But the archbishop said many MPs had a "moral dilemma" over the bill. He said he had written to the prime minister asking for Labour MPs to be released from the three-line whip that would force them to vote for the legislation - ministers who did not support a whipped vote would be expected to resign.

The archbishop told BBC Radio 4: "Those MPs who have approached me over recent weeks have said: 'Look, I don't think this is right. I accept the teachings of the Church, yet I am a Government minister, or I am a Labour MP. Can I discuss with you the moral dilemma I have got?'.

"This is a matter which is clearly affecting many MPs.

"I have written to the prime minister myself asking him that, in view of these very important issues which touch on the sacredness of human life, its meaning and purpose, would he please grant a free vote, because that is what is really required."

Welsh Secretary Paul Murphy is reportedly one of those prepared to quit the Cabinet rather than vote for the bill. Other Catholics in the Cabinet are Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly and Defence Secretary Des Browne.

The bill has also been condemned by other leading Catholics. Catholic Labour MP Joe Benton and Scottish Catholic leader Cardinal Keith O'Brien are among those who have called for MPs to have a free vote.

In a sermon to be delivered on Easter Sunday, Cardinal Keith O'Brien described the plans as "monstrous".

He warned Mr Brown against imposing a three-line whip on Labour MPs - which orders them to vote with the party line. Another Catholic MP, Stephen Pound, has said he will not be voting for the measure. He said: "We seem to be moving into a sphere where we are actually taking on the role of the creation of life."

'Terrible diseases'

Responding to Cardinal O'Brien's criticism, Mr Bradshaw told BBC Radio 4's Any Questions: "If it was about the things the cardinal referred to, creating babies for spare parts or raiding dead people's tissue, then there would be justification for a free vote.

"But it's not about those things. He was wrong in fact, and I think rather intemperate and emotive in the way that he criticised this legislation.

"This is about using pre-embryonic cells to do research that has the potential to ease the suffering of millions of people in this country. The government has taken a view that this is a good thing."

Liberal Democrat Evan Harris, a member of the Commons Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Select Committee, said he felt ethically obliged to allow scientists to carry out the research.

'God-given powers'

"From a religious point of view, it seems right that we should use God-given powers of science to create short-term entities that are microscopic that might be a way of showing us how to develop stem cells from embryos that might be used to treat people with terrible diseases," he said.

Downing Street said a decision on a free vote would be taken "in due course". Both the Conservative and Liberal Democrat leaders plan to allow their MPs to have a free vote on the more controversial aspects of the bill.

The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill is designed to bring the 1990 regulatory framework for fertility treatment and embryo research in line with scientific advances.

Not sure where I personally stand on this yet - however not from a religious viewpoint, more of an uncertainty of what we are creating or opening up.

(EDIT: source at BBC)

PeteEU · 03-23-08, 04:10 AM

Religious wackos wount influence politicans in the UK.. never have and never will (in recent history).

ludahai · 03-23-08, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteEU

Religious wackos wount influence politicans in the UK.. never have and never will (in recent history).

These don't sound like religious wackos. Rather, the fears are fairly mainstream in the Catholic community. Of course, perhaps because you don't agree with, you label them as wacko, but that is another discussion.

PeteEU · 03-23-08, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludahai

These don't sound like religious wackos. Rather, the fears are fairly mainstream in the Catholic community. Of course, perhaps because you don't agree with, you label them as wacko, but that is another discussion.

I frankly have no opinion on the issue. But I also know that the british politicans (espcially in the Labour party) will not look too kindly on some priest telling them how to run the country and especially based on some religious dogma.

And he is and people like him are wackos, putting a 2000+ year old book ahead of common sense. Oh look the world is FLAT!

Infinite Chaos · 03-23-08, 12:40 PM

Which bit is the common sense part regarding these embryoes though?

PeteEU · 03-23-08, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos

Which bit is the common sense part regarding these embryoes though?

Was a general remark about "those kind of people", not directed towards the embryo research or the issue in fact.

All I am saying is that people like the persons "complaining" are not taken seriously as they are in the US. In fact the backlash is already hitting the people in question. Politicans and media are pointing out that the MPs already are free to vote according to thier own judgement, and the fact that the legislation has not even had its second reading (usualy 3 readings I believe) kinda shows how out of contact with reality the people in question are.

On top of that when people like this start using images as half man half goat walking down the street, then well. I am sure that some braindead idiots will believe them, but fact is that its a non issue that this priest and his cohorts have brought up. They will not prevent the legislation to be passed as they are doing nothing but fearmogering.

Infinite Chaos · 03-23-08, 05:11 PM

I am no "research biologist" or suchlike - neither am I religious but I certainly don't think the potential risks and benefits have been explained fully enough to the public.

The BBC website is full of public feedback in strong reaction to the church - but I don't think we should rush headlong into something in which the consequences aren't completely fully understood. Personally I'd like a little more information than a simple "this is for cancer treatment" response.

Glow in the dark pigs don't convince me yet about what we are doing or why..

john1918171615 · 04-11-08, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos

I am no "research biologist" or suchlike

I AM. Well, I WAS, until the research budget was cut and I was put on the dole.

These are NOT embryos. And I wish the catholic church would get their damn facts straight before mouthing off.

NON GAMETE CELLS are taken from ANIMALS and the NUCLEI are REMOVED.

NON-GAMETE CELLS ARE 'harvested' by whatever means (biopsy probably ?) from Human ADULTS (or at least from humans whose development after birth has advanced to the point where they show the signs of disease) and the nuclei are removed from THOSE and implanted in the animal CYTOPLASM to provide what Lord Winston referred to as Embryo-LIKE cells capable of being used for stem cell research.

I DO WISH these CHURCHMEN would at least have the decency to get their facts right before declaring a damn jihad or crusade. But when the hell has the pope ever been interested in getting his science right ????

DarkWizard12 · 04-11-08, 11:21 AM

By all mean, let their be a vote. If Embryonic Research is as good as you liberals say, it should mean nothing to you because obviusly everyone will be smart and vote with you right?