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Another day in France

I just did and it was fascinating!

I never imagined that there was so much awareness of those issues in China, and it pains me to sometimes see a more pertinent understanding of those questions than what can be found in our own medias plagued by political correctness.

Recently I took an interest in how China approaches Islam in China. I saw that they also have rising problems with Uyghurs, and that they toughened their policies to remedy it, after trying a softer way. Regrettably it was difficult to find a good content in English for those issues.

China's governance of minorities, including the Muslim Uyghurs, is also fraught with problems, but the general method is some sort of separation/ apartheid. May not be PC, but it has seemed to work (for the most part). Minorities tend to congregate, which makes it easier for the PRC to govern as well. They are separated into distinct "enclaves", administrative regions where they are allowed a certain amount of autonomy, including selection of representatives to the CCP, mayors / chiefs, etc. The government has many "affirmative action" policies for them, investing heavily in minority-area schools, infrastructure, and cultural initiatives (including working hard to help protect their cultural practices and languages). In addition, they were always exempt from the one-child policy, have a separate national welfare and healthcare account that dwarfs that of regular Chinese citizens per person, and have consistently seen more investment per capita for economic initiatives in their areas.

Those that seek to move to urban areas also receive preferential treatment, and great of help in integrating / assimilating with general Han society. Most of the cultural tourism destinations, private infrastructure, hotels, f&b businesses, real estate, micro banks, and more, related to minorities, are owned by minority citizens that have integrated into greater PRC society.

There's a reason that of the 55 recognized minority ethnic groups, 54 have massive majorities that are ardent supporters of the Communist Party. Whereas the international media has made an issue of rural Han Chinese fighting to get Hukous (in summary, a registration that shows their "residency" in cities, allowing agricultural and migrant workers to go to schools, hospitals, etc. in cities), they have also been quiet on the situation where many people from rural areas try to claim to be minorities, and fight for that recognition, to gain those benefits.

I also find pertinent to this discussion, that the only ethnic minority that is in general dissatisfied with the PRC rule are the Uyghurs, who wish for their own "Islamic" state. Even the Tibetans, in general (with the exception of the so-called Dalai clique), support the government.

I see that the European nations are trying, and have tried, for many years, to help the Muslim minority...but they never tried separating them into semi-autonomous areas, while still encouraging them to "come out" and assimilate. You guys may argue that you may have, but the fundamental difference in China's approach is STOPPING IMMIGRATION. Minorities are allowed to grow organically, given economic support, and assimilation support, but the nation refuses to allow related minorities, whether Miao/Hmong from SE Asian nations, or Muslim immigrants from Central Asia, to immigrate into minority areas.

IMHO, the European nations should take a look at these policies, while studying the integration of the Hui minority in China. The Hui people, also majority Muslim, have great support within themselves the greater integration and assimilation of their people with the nation as a whole, and their Muslim leaders have said many times that the core tenets of their faith stand in solidarity with Christianity and Judaism, and share many beliefs in peace and respect with Buddhism and Daoism. They are among the most successful minorities in China, topping GDP / capita of all ethnic groups. Most of the famous lamb, goat, and noodle restaurants showcasing north-western Chinese cuisine, in China's major cities, are owned and run by the Hui. Although the majority are practicing Muslims, and few intermarry, they frequently intermingle with other ethnic and religious groups, and a vast majority see themselves as Chinese FIRST.

They have also been the target of much Uyghur violence, as the Uyghur's consider them to be "consorting with infidels". Many Uyghur's consider the Hui as apostates for celebrating the Chinese New Year with the rest of China, and over the years, there have been many attacks on Hui neighborhoods and businesses during the New Year.
 
Today in France, a mayor is prosecuted for hate speech after tweeting "proof of Great Replacement: look at older classroom photographies". "In one school in my town, 91% of children are Muslim, of course this is a problem". Robert Ménard co-funded reporters without borders (RSF) and switched from the left to the far-right after 2010. He could be jailed for two years.

Today in France, the speaker of the main right-wing candidate, Fillon, stated that there is no proven link between immigration and terrorism.

My country is very sick nowadays.

Is his security advisor Inspector Clouseau? A foolish thing to say if he values the truth.
 
I see that the European nations are trying, and have tried, for many years, to help the Muslim minority...but they never tried separating them into semi-autonomous areas, while still encouraging them to "come out" and assimilate. You guys may argue that you may have, but the fundamental difference in China's approach is STOPPING IMMIGRATION.
This is very interesting because one of the ideas that I have in mind is kinda similar: to keep them in ghettos but slowly peel them off over one or two centuries to assimilate them "one by one". So far we tried to assimilate them all at once. But they are now too many: in Paris' region they amount to a third of the youth.

However I do not think this should be too obvious: I do not think those ghettos should be autonomous and be allowed to use religious laws or have different schools. We must also pay attention that they keep a great access to contraceptives and sexual education.

All of that being said, you are of course right to emphasize that immigration must be stopped before everything else.
 
It would truly be a loss to humanity to loose France's unique culture, to an immigrant ideology!
There is a slight glimmer of hope, that later generations of Muslims will reject the more repressive
expressions of Islam, and embrace the freedoms of living in a modern society.

There are large swathes of France where you will still only find white Franco-Français with French culture alive and kicking.

Even here in the Parisian suburbs with large numbers of people of immigrant descent, we've just had the fêtes and I didn't see couscous and mergez flying around - people of all backgrounds were rather celebrating with smoked salmon, smoked trout, coquilles Saint-Jacques, fois gras, champagne, bûche de Noël and all the other very French celebratory food and drink.

In my partners' muslim family they had a Christmas tree, presents for the kids and basically celebrated along with everyone else. They do it for the kids, so that they won't feel left out of the fun. Forget the Christian roots, Christmas as a pagan festival is pretty universal, and even many muslims love the tinsel and the snowmen.

Now, what were you saying about the potential loss of French culture? I personally think many European cultures are more at risk from the sinister McDonaldisation of our societies: coke, Hollywood movies, fast food, trash TV, incorrect English etc. etc.
 
There are large swathes of France where you will still only find white Franco-Français with French culture alive and kicking.

Even here in the Parisian suburbs with large numbers of people of immigrant descent, we've just had the fêtes and I didn't see couscous and mergez flying around - people of all backgrounds were rather celebrating with smoked salmon, smoked trout, coquilles Saint-Jacques, fois gras, champagne, bûche de Noël and all the other very French celebratory food and drink.

In my partners' muslim family they had a Christmas tree, presents for the kids and basically celebrated along with everyone else. They do it for the kids, so that they won't feel left out of the fun. Forget the Christian roots, Christmas as a pagan festival is pretty universal, and even many muslims love the tinsel and the snowmen.

Now, what were you saying about the potential loss of French culture? I personally think many European cultures are more at risk from the sinister McDonaldisation of our societies: coke, Hollywood movies, fast food, trash TV, incorrect English etc. etc.
To some extent, I hope you are correct. My fear is when the Muslim population gains a majority, how will they vote, and whom will they vote for.
 
To some extent, I hope you are correct. My fear is when the Muslim population gains a majority, how will they vote, and whom will they vote for.

On what grounds do you see muslims becoming the majority? Which census figures have you misread?
 
On what grounds do you see muslims becoming the majority? Which census figures have you misread?
I may be wrong, but what is the average number of children born to regular French households vs Muslim French households?
 
I may be wrong, but what is the average number of children born to regular French households vs Muslim French households?

This has been debated here before - even with a slightly higher birth rate of 2.3 children per household (sic) muslims are not going to "overtake" the rather fertile native French with a fertility rate of 2.1 children per household:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/21/france-population-europe-fertility-rate

https://www.quora.com/Will-France-have-a-majority-of-Muslims-by-2050

Contrary to scaremongering, France is not going to have a majority muslim population. Add to that the fact that many French muslims lead extremely secular lifestyles, I don't see the panic. And I'm here on the ground in France itself.

As a white, atheist, childless by choice, professional working woman, living with a (muslim) man out of wedlock, I would have a lot to fear from a rise in muslim fundamentalism. But I'm here in France and I'm not scared since I don't see Islamisation. I see ordinary people, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist and otherwise just going about their business. And I don't tar entire communities on the behaviour of a few extremist nut jobs. I leave that to ignoramuses like Donald Trump.
 
This has been debated here before - even with a slightly higher birth rate of 2.3 children per household (sic) muslims are not going to "overtake" the rather fertile native French with a fertility rate of 2.1 children per household:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/21/france-population-europe-fertility-rate

https://www.quora.com/Will-France-have-a-majority-of-Muslims-by-2050

Contrary to scaremongering, France is not going to have a majority muslim population. Add to that the fact that many French muslims lead extremely secular lifestyles, I don't see the panic. And I'm here on the ground in France itself.

As a white, atheist, childless by choice, professional working woman, living with a (muslim) man out of wedlock, I would have a lot to fear from a rise in muslim fundamentalism. But I'm here in France and I'm not scared since I don't see Islamisation. I see ordinary people, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist and otherwise just going about their business. And I don't tar entire communities on the behaviour of a few extremist nut jobs. I leave that to ignoramuses like Donald Trump.

How are you going to stop it? It is all but guaranteed.
 
Your point is? Tell me in French since your English isn't coherent.
You claimed there were still (sic) places were the French culture and ethnic group is alive and kicking. This "still" clearly emphasizes that you admit the mutilation and replacement of our ethnic group and culture.

This has been debated here before - even with a slightly higher birth rate of 2.3 children per household (sic) muslims are not going to "overtake" the rather fertile native French with a fertility rate of 2.1 children per household:
a) Fecundity is only one of the ways through which they outgrow us. There is also immigration (accelerated since ten-twenty years) and the fact that their current demographics are younger than ours: we die while they birth. They are not only more fecund, they also have a higher share of young couples.

b) 2.1 is the average fertility rate, not ours. We are only at 1.7-1.9. And there is no guarantee that Muslims will eventually converge, the opposite is more plausible given their increasing religiosity. They have more young couples who make more babies.

c) If only for the natives our population would be declining. The very fact that we have gained 5M people so fast results from immigration. Meanwhile we lost a few millions of natives. Meawhile Muslims saw their absolute population numbers double over just thirty years.

d) At the current rate France will not yet be Muslim by 2100. But Paris, Marseilles and other large cities will be without any doubt. Already a quarter to a third of their youth is Muslim (Bouches-du-Rhône, Île-de-France).


But all of this can be stopped if we react now. We can prevent the division that will bring distrust, hatred, discrimination, segregation, corruption, instability, insecurity, bitterness, vengefulness, violence, secession, the relentless conflicts, the ethnic cleansings.

We can stop immigration right now, deport foreigners and enforce assimilation policies. We can stop our suicide.
 
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This "still" clearly emphasizes that you admit the mutilation and replacement of our ethnic group and culture.

No it doesn't.

a) Fecundity is only one of the ways through which they outgrow us. There is also immigration (accelerated since ten-twenty years) and the fact that their current demographics are younger than ours: we die while they birth. They are not only more fecund, they also have a higher share of young couples.

b) 2.1 is the average fertility rate, not ours. We are only at 1.7-1.9. And there is no guarantee that Muslims will eventually converge, the opposite is more plausible given their increasing religiosity. They have more young couples who make more babies.

c) If only for the natives our population would be declining. The very fact that we have gained 5M people so fast results from immigration. Meanwhile we lost a few millions of natives. Meawhile Muslims saw their absolute population numbers double over just thirty years.

d) At the current rate France will not yet be Muslim by 2100. But Paris, Marseilles and other large cities will be without any doubt. Already a quarter to a third of their youth is Muslim (Bouches-du-Rhône, Île-de-France).


But all of this can be stopped if we react now. We can prevent the division that will bring distrust, hatred, discrimination, segregation, corruption, instability, insecurity, bitterness, vengefulness, violence, secession, the relentless conflicts, the ethnic cleansings.

We can stop immigration right now, deport foreigners and enforce assimilation policies. We can stop our suicide.

Read the articles above.

The kind of crâp you spout off above was said about blacks in the 1960s and 1970s - they breed like rabbits, they're overtaking etc. Yet here we are in 2017 and no western European nation has a majority black population or anywhere near.

People said this kind of thing about Jews in the 1930s, and that finished brilliantly didn't it? Or maybe you like the idea of concentration camps?
 
No it doesn't.



Read the articles above.

The kind of crâp you spout off above was said about blacks in the 1960s and 1970s - they breed like rabbits, they're overtaking etc. Yet here we are in 2017 and no western European nation has a majority black population or anywhere near.

People said this kind of thing about Jews in the 1930s, and that finished brilliantly didn't it? Or maybe you like the idea of concentration camps?

Hitler has changed his name to Islam. When are going to call them what they are? You reversing the situation and making it our fault some Muslims are killing people and someone suggests doing something about it is subhuman(comparison to Nazis)?
 
Read the articles above.
Nothing that I said contradict those articles. But they ask the wrong questions.

France will not be Muslim by 2100, but Paris will be far before that.

People said this kind of thing about Jews in the 1930s, and that finished brilliantly didn't it? Or maybe you like the idea of concentration camps?
There were less than 2% of Jews in France in 1933, less than 4% in Germany, and most had been there for centuries. We are at 8-11% for Islam and it happened in just fifty years, and you and our governments import millions more.

This is not 1993. For the start they are a much bigger group: this time the slaughters will be on both sides, and we both know they will be the ones starting them. One day during a riot, they will cleanse a Muslim city from the non-Muslims who live there. This will be the first ethnic cleansing, not the last one.

The "vivre ensemble" ("life together") is dying and it cannot be helped. The future of France at this rate is like Lebanon or Nigeria. We will live separately in a permanent state of conflict until extermination, secession or assimilation.
 
Today in France...
I read that more and more parents turn towards private schools.

As for the reasons, the liberal journalist emphasized a desire to not mix with others (who do you think he is talking about?) and a rejection of the recent changes made by our Muslim ministry of education, who suppressed the teaching of Latin and Greek and increased the availability of Arab courses, as soon as the primary school and beyond.
 
Today in France...
I read that more and more parents turn towards private schools.

As for the reasons, the liberal journalist emphasized a desire to not mix with others (who do you think he is talking about?) and a rejection of the recent changes made by our Muslim ministry of education, who suppressed the teaching of Latin and Greek and increased the availability of Arab courses, as soon as the primary school and beyond.

Good. Government school is absolute bull**** indoctrination anyway. You go and learn about all of the morally reprehensible things whites have done throughout the history of the world in order to properly feel guilt.

If you're wondering how the free western world got here it's because Europeans were culturally enriched with more loving cultures who taught us to be more tolerant. ;)
 
Good. Government school is absolute bull**** indoctrination anyway. You go and learn about all of the morally reprehensible things whites have done throughout the history of the world in order to properly feel guilt.
Nowadays they are (and so are our private schools actually).

But not so long ago they were high-level schools with strong academic exigences where children of factory workers were sitting right next to children of doctors, and those public schools acted as propellers on the social ladder. Poor white kids cannot afford private schools like the ones found in the USA.

Not so long ago very few people were choosing private schools. Nowadays I am pretty sure that the main driver for catholic schools is to avoid Muslims. Atheist parents who once reviled catholic teaching are now probably putting their kids there to avoid islamization in the school's courtyard.
 
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Not where I live.

And if you think Paris 16ème or the Marais are turning muslim, you're mistaken.

How could you possibly contradict these zealots who know much better than you what's happning. You only live there, after all....
 
How could you possibly contradict these zealots who know much better than you what's happning. You only live there, after all....
Why is this forum full of people who know nothing about Europe? I rarely comment on the mass shootings and all the gun deaths in the States because I have never been there and know nothing about the place.
 
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