• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The "Muslim Problem": First hand experience?

Have you encountered "the Muslim problem" first hand?

  • No, there are (next to) no Muslims in my environment.

    Votes: 3 9.1%
  • I'm European, but no, there are Muslims, but it's always been peaceful.

    Votes: 8 24.2%
  • I'm European, and yes, I've experienced instances of being harassed on ethnic grounds.

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • I'm European, and yes, it happens on a regular basis.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm American, but no, there are Muslims, but it's always been peaceful.

    Votes: 16 48.5%
  • I'm American, and yes, I've experienced instances of being harassed on ethnic grounds.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm American, and yes, it happens on a regular basis.

    Votes: 1 3.0%
  • other

    Votes: 3 9.1%

  • Total voters
    33
I´m pretty sure a third generation immigrant just got elected president of the United States (well kinda.....) and bear in mind of course that this wave of immigration was very controversial at the time (see the ´´know nothing party´´) and yet the decendents of these immigrants are barely distinguishable from the rest of the population.

The last one was first generation, well half of him. Unfortunately, in the US, that half will remain with his offspring for many generations to come. And, that is just wrong.
 

Many highly successful people in this country are first or second generation immigrants. In fact, when it comes to engineering and technology, being an immigrant or the offspring of a recent immigrant is a plus. It means you probably have a better education and work ethic than those who have lived here for 5 generations or more.
 
Many highly successful people in this country are first or second generation immigrants. In fact, when it comes to engineering and technology, being an immigrant or the offspring of a recent immigrant is a plus. It means you probably have a better education and work ethic than those who have lived here for 5 generations or more.

So what am I to make of post 49?
 
There is a lot of talk about Muslims allegedly taking over quarters of entire cities. Gangs, no-go areas, and so on.

People say they feel "no longer at home" in their home country, because Muslims allegedly do not just exist side to side with them, but actually display threatening behavior -- harassing or insulting Europeans/Westeners, using their high numbers to intimidate them.


I'm curious: How many of you have experienced this first hand? How many have just read about it? And if it's the latter, where have you read or heard about it?


As for myself, all these terrible things you read and hear of, I've never experienced myself. I live in Berlin, and here are plenty Muslims. There are quarters that even have a predominantly Muslim "look" -- if you count shops run by people with roots in a Muslim country, in this case Turkish. I've often been in these quarters, even at night.

I currently do a formation, and in my school, about a third of the students has roots in a Muslim country. Out of 30 students, 8 young women wear a headscarf.

Yet my impression is: There is no problem. I've never encountered hostile behavior by Muslim immigrants which I wouldn't expect from natives too under certain conditions, save for a certain rudeness occasionally (in these regards, not different from the rudeness many natives display occasionally). The headscarf girls in the school don't separate themselves, but join talks with all other students, share their plans and dreams, or talk about the latest movie or PS4 game they played.

I asked some of them if they're wearing the scarf out of religious conviction, or tradition. Many didn't even know a real answer, said they aren't really very religious, said it was just for the sake of their relatives. One said it's both, and when we talked about Islam, I found she's not radical at all -- she expressed regret that Mouhanad Khorchide, a liberal modernist German-Muslim theologician, meets so much hostility from "conservatives".

Two or three Turkish immigrant women do not wear a scarf -- they said they identify as "laicists".

No "parallel culture" in that class, as far as I can see.

What does bother me, are bunches of adolescent male Muslim immigrants, who are annoying, because they're loud, obnoxious and disrespectful on the street -- but as I said above, no real threat. Either you change the side of the street when you see them, or when you do meet them, telling them firmly to just cut the crap will usually do the trick. I've never encountered them becoming a real threat.


There were two more serious incidents in my environment, involving a Muslim perpetrator. But it was possible in these cases to attach individual blame, rather than basing it on ethnicity.


So what about you? Have you first hand experience with "the Muslim problem"?

I don't fit the poll as an American living in Germany and Spain. Also my perception is that our major problems are not the Muslims but the way we are reacting and the way our traditional and newer politicians resort to populist explanations and justification of their policies.

Having said that I might describe the Muslim picture in my environments.
- In 🇪🇸 there are quite a few Muslims in the villages and towns. Many women wear scarves or such over their heads. Only few cover their faces. There are a lot of Blacks that sell illegal merchandise in the towns along the coast that will threaten you, if they think you are taking their picture. But all told, there are only few complaints, if you don't mind a sheep being bled to death for the holidays next door.
- in 🇩🇪 we are outside of Aachen, where the Muslim populations are usually concentrated in relatively small areas and town centers. I have never experienced any problems and quite enjoy the stores and restaurants. But there have been a growing number of incidents of various types of violence aimed at women or the police that been spectacular in a small way and disturbed the population. The increased theft, break and entries and robberies that are disturbing the people more are almost exclusively EU citizens from the East and the growing drug problems are Dutch and homegrown.
 
And a way to be a martyr.

Suicide martyrdom is a recent phenomena in Islam--1980's roughly.

The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)[146][147][148][149]

Lebanon saw the first bombing, but it was the Tamil Tigers (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) in Sri Lanka who perfected the tactic and inspired its use elsewhere.[150] Their Black Tiger unit committed 82 suicide attacks from 1987 to 2009, killing 961 people,[151] including former Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi,[152][153][154] and the president of Sri Lanka, Ranasinghe Premadasa.[155][156][157][158]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack#Post-1980_attacks
 
So what am I to make of post 49?

what you will?

You may want to check the context though. I do not think it says what you think it does.
 
There is a lot of talk about Muslims allegedly taking over quarters of entire cities. Gangs, no-go areas, and so on.

People say they feel "no longer at home" in their home country, because Muslims allegedly do not just exist side to side with them, but actually display threatening behavior -- harassing or insulting Europeans/Westeners, using their high numbers to intimidate them.


I'm curious: How many of you have experienced this first hand? How many have just read about it? And if it's the latter, where have you read or heard about it?


As for myself, all these terrible things you read and hear of, I've never experienced myself. I live in Berlin, and here are plenty Muslims. There are quarters that even have a predominantly Muslim "look" -- if you count shops run by people with roots in a Muslim country, in this case Turkish. I've often been in these quarters, even at night.

I currently do a formation, and in my school, about a third of the students has roots in a Muslim country. Out of 30 students, 8 young women wear a headscarf.

Yet my impression is: There is no problem. I've never encountered hostile behavior by Muslim immigrants which I wouldn't expect from natives too under certain conditions, save for a certain rudeness occasionally (in these regards, not different from the rudeness many natives display occasionally). The headscarf girls in the school don't separate themselves, but join talks with all other students, share their plans and dreams, or talk about the latest movie or PS4 game they played.

I asked some of them if they're wearing the scarf out of religious conviction, or tradition. Many didn't even know a real answer, said they aren't really very religious, said it was just for the sake of their relatives. One said it's both, and when we talked about Islam, I found she's not radical at all -- she expressed regret that Mouhanad Khorchide, a liberal modernist German-Muslim theologician, meets so much hostility from "conservatives".

Two or three Turkish immigrant women do not wear a scarf -- they said they identify as "laicists".

No "parallel culture" in that class, as far as I can see.

What does bother me, are bunches of adolescent male Muslim immigrants, who are annoying, because they're loud, obnoxious and disrespectful on the street -- but as I said above, no real threat. Either you change the side of the street when you see them, or when you do meet them, telling them firmly to just cut the crap will usually do the trick. I've never encountered them becoming a real threat.


There were two more serious incidents in my environment, involving a Muslim perpetrator. But it was possible in these cases to attach individual blame, rather than basing it on ethnicity.


So what about you? Have you first hand experience with "the Muslim problem"?

My Muslim neighbors and former friends and colleagues have never been any kind of problem. All delightful pleasant people. Especially the Iranians.

But. . .a close family member went for a walk by herself in Paris and wandered into an all-Muslim neighborhood. She was accosted verbally by some young males and definitely felt threatened for her well being. She finally gave them a pack of cigarettes from her purse and was allowed to leave, but was quite shaken.

What makes this story more relevant is that this person is one of my most militantly leftist, pro political correctness, liberal relatives that I have. So I have to believe her experience was as she described it.
 
Suicide martyrdom is a recent phenomena in Islam--1980's roughly.
Sahih Muslim (20:4681) - "Surely, the gates of Paradise are under the shadows of the swords." After hearing Muhammad say that martyrdom leads to paradise, a young man pulls his sword and breaks the sheath (indicating that he has no intention of returning) then flings himself into battle until he is killed.

Just as dead as if he blew himself up. Martyrdom is not new. And he probably took some people with him, like bombers do.

More verses(proof) at link.
Sahih Muslim (55:93) - A lengthy parable told by Muhammad, in which a boy chooses to die in order to spread religion, thus legitimizing the practice.
Suicide Bombings and Martyrdom in Islam
 
My Muslim neighbors and former friends and colleagues have never been any kind of problem. All delightful pleasant people. Especially the Iranians.

But. . .a close family member went for a walk by herself in Paris and wandered into an all-Muslim neighborhood. She was accosted verbally by some young males and definitely felt threatened for her well being. She finally gave them a pack of cigarettes from her purse and was allowed to leave, but was quite shaken.

What makes this story more relevant is that this person is one of my most militantly leftist, pro political correctness, liberal relatives that I have. So I have to believe her experience was as she described it.

I guess that shows that quitting smoking would NOT have increased her life expectancy!
 
Na. The people who matter began migrating here about 500 years ago. No one here really cares about the rest of the migrations. They don't affect real Americans.

So now you are not only in the 21st century? Can you make up your mind?

Real Americans? So native Americans are not real Americans?

But regardless, why all of a sudden a 500 year period? Before you were saying only the 2000s counted and mattered, and hence ignoring the very real problems with migration in say the 1800s and early 1900s.

That Irish were compared to dogs and negros is what... false? That Italians, Irish and others created ghettos, where they could have their own culture and yes language... is what a figment of history´s imagination?

That it took many generations.. 2+ for Irish, Italian, Chinese (some say they are not exactly assimilated still) and many other migrant groups to assimilate into the melting pot of what we call the USA... but when it comes to Europe, migrants are expected to assimilate from day one or else it is all a failure and Europe is collapsing on a Muslim hoard invasion bla bla bla?

Why is it that America is allowed Little Havana, Chinatown and so on, where ethnic groups are allowed to basically live like it is back in the "old country", including language, but in Europe when told by Americans and the right.. then no that is bad and ghettos are bad and the usual bs?

It is hilarious that one of the biggest organized crime groups in the US, is the Chinese Triads.. who´s base of power is Chinatowns across the US.. that aint a problem relative to, so called Muslim areas in Europe that are so called no go areas... these places are massive problems! yea the Chinese Triads just run a large part of the people smuggling in the US, and the sex trafficking.. but hey... they aint Muslims!
 
So now you are not only in the 21st century? Can you make up your mind?

Real Americans? So native Americans are not real Americans?

But regardless, why all of a sudden a 500 year period? Before you were saying only the 2000s counted and mattered, and hence ignoring the very real problems with migration in say the 1800s and early 1900s.

That Irish were compared to dogs and negros is what... false? That Italians, Irish and others created ghettos, where they could have their own culture and yes language... is what a figment of history´s imagination?

That it took many generations.. 2+ for Irish, Italian, Chinese (some say they are not exactly assimilated still) and many other migrant groups to assimilate into the melting pot of what we call the USA... but when it comes to Europe, migrants are expected to assimilate from day one or else it is all a failure and Europe is collapsing on a Muslim hoard invasion bla bla bla?

Why is it that America is allowed Little Havana, Chinatown and so on, where ethnic groups are allowed to basically live like it is back in the "old country", including language, but in Europe when told by Americans and the right.. then no that is bad and ghettos are bad and the usual bs?

It is hilarious that one of the biggest organized crime groups in the US, is the Chinese Triads.. who´s base of power is Chinatowns across the US.. that aint a problem relative to, so called Muslim areas in Europe that are so called no go areas... these places are massive problems! yea the Chinese Triads just run a large part of the people smuggling in the US, and the sex trafficking.. but hey... they aint Muslims!

Chinese triads are not a problem in R/L. You watched too much Bruce Lee.
 
Chinese triads are not a problem in R/L. You watched too much Bruce Lee.

Sigh... if you really believe that, then well there is no hope. You live in a self made bubble devoid of reality and historical fact.
 
Sigh... if you really believe that, then well there is no hope. You live in a self made bubble devoid of reality and historical fact.

See, you really do not understand the US.
 
I should have been more clear. First Muslim Suicide bombers. It used to be against their religion to commit suicide. That changed in Iran back when they fought Iraq. Khomeini found a way to justify it, and then sent hordes of young men off to trigger land mines in the name of Allah. It worked, and allowed Iran to fight the better equipped Iraqi army to a stalemate.

The Beirut troubles began when Christian militias murdered Muslims who were under Israeli occupation and control. The Israeli turned a blind eye to the massacre. This eventually resulted in escalating violence, which is why Reagan sent in the Marines. IIRC, Assad's dad is the guy who sent the suicide bombers.

It worked again. Reagan pulled the Marines out. And, now suicide bombing is a norm.

People will always find ways to distort religion to support what they want to do.
 
because Muslims allegedly do not just exist side to side with them, but actually display threatening behavior -- harassing or insulting Europeans/Westeners, using their high numbers to intimidate them.

When I arrived in Cardiff as a kid I remember being invited to go "paki-bashing" with other kids, it was a common thing in the 70's but I knew that on other days other kids would be out hunting black and mixed race kids. I tended to stick by myself and fight my own ground but that's another story. In the 70's, Asian kids would sometimes be bussed into schools and they were often given a very hard time. Some of those kids and areas have had a hard time integrating since.

Anyhow, having lived in plenty of African countries with sizeable muslim populations I also got to know a wide variety of christians, muslims and animist and guess what - these three groups have horrible people, nice people, lesbians, bigots etc just like any other group of people.

Is there a "muslim problem?" No, except in the minds of bedwetting hate-filled people who have a huge chip on their shoulder. Going back to the "Paki bashing" though, what did happen in some instances was that some of those asian kids ganged up together for mutual protection just like west Indians did in the 1970's.
 
Muslims make up approximately 2.5% of the Australian population and no, we don't have a "Muslim Problem" here despite what the far-right wing extremist groups who define hate and bigotry would have you believe.
 
Muslims make up approximately 2.5% of the Australian population and no, we don't have a "Muslim Problem" here despite what the far-right wing extremist groups who define hate and bigotry would have you believe.

Really now....


Forty-nine per cent of people surveyed in an Essential poll agreed that Muslims should be blocked from the country while 40 per cent disagreed with the idea. There was 60 per cent support for the ban among coalition voters, 40 per cent from Labor and a surprising 34 per cent from Greens voters.

More than a third felt Muslims did not integrate into Australian society as their main reason for supporting a ban, with some citing concerns about terrorism and lack of uptake of Australian values, the poll showed
Nocookies | The Australian
 

Yes, REALLY. I live here and I experience first hand daily what life is like in Australia. Just because x amount of people think that Muslims should be blocked from the Country doesn't actually mean there is a Muslim problem here. Your poll proves nothing.
 
I'm pretty sure you have no choice but voting for Le Pen, Wilders or the AFD now ... stand up and fight back! Don't let the Muslim hoardes screw you! Your identity is at stake! :lol:

You mean in order to show that they cannot fix it either?
 
I live in a gated community, but right outside is a mall and there's plenty of Muslims that have small stores and kiosks there. At a nearby street is a Turkish restaurant and I happen to know the owner and he always greets me with a smile when I drop by to order a meal or take out some of his delicious baklavas. I've never had a problem with them. One of my son's nannies in his first two years was a Muslim woman. I think pretty much most of the Islamophobics have never even known a Muslim and just believe what they read in places like Fox News and Brietbart. Parts of the MidEast are a mess because of our interventionism's and our constant support of rogue states like Saudi Arabia and Isreal.
 
Back
Top Bottom