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German courts approve the Sharia police

Auvergnat said:
The fact that they carry the word "police" and that "police" is inherently intimidating, two legal reasons to ban them according to the German law. This should really be common sense for anyone: you don't call yourself "police".
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That was my misgiving in this. The use of the word "Police" on an outer protective vest is not really free expression. It is more like fraud and in itself intimidating. I was surprised at the ruling.
 
Auvergnat said:
I can picture that: "the Sharia Police is a wonderful advance ofr our countries, a proof of our openmindness and how we left the Darkest Hours of History behind us". Apparently they learned nothing from the American medias' mea culpa after Trump.

AfD +2%
AfD +3%
AfD +1%
AfD +1%
AfD +2%
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Oh. The German media are much more homogenized in many areas of opinion than the American. It is a real problem there and can force government to do things that are irrational, when the paradigm faces a reality that it is unprepared for.
 
coldjoint said:
Ridiculous decision. How do you think they would have ruled on Hitlers brown shirts?
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They did rule on them. They were fine and backed by the courts, till their boss fell out of favor. Then there was a pogrom of brown shirts.
 
PeteEU said:
Its a freaking high visibility vest.. not a uniform. Much to do about nothing as usual from the anti-Muslim crowd.
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If you think it's so great, why don't you go live under Sharia Law?

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American said:
If you think it's so great, why don't you go live under Sharia Law?

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Where the **** did I state that Sharia law is great? Stop making **** up because you cant debate like a man.
 
Chagos said:
He's the one currently in court in Düsseldorf on terrorist charges.

Sven Lau.
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That's him. He's bad news. He's an extremist, born in Germany (parents were Catholic from memory) and he converted to Islam in his teenage years. He recruited German volunteers to fight in Syria and helped them to travel there under the pretext of providing humanitarian assistance. What an asshole. He deserves all what he gets and more.
 
if we have christian going around on the streets, telling people to not commit adultery, or be gay, transgender.

would the people being told this say "wells it just their free speech", ...the fact is they would be mad as h@ell.
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Haha, go to any Pride event and you will see a range of different religious groups using loudspeakers to tell the revellers that they are all damned and going to hell. Up where I am most of the groups telling people not to be gay are Christians, further south it will be other religions too.

And then we have the Britain First Christian patrols.
 
PeteEU said:
Where the **** did I state that Sharia law is great? Stop making **** up because you cant debate like a man.
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"..you can't debate like a man"


Want a tissue? Don't come in here telling everyone it's much to do about nothing, when you have lived it. People in Germany are very concerned.
 
german hick said:
may be a small by Pegida and AFD agitated minority. Most people are quite fine here - but sorry, you will know better than me...
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I was just there in July visiting friends outside Hamburg, and they were very concerned about the refugee policy and the crimes committed

Muslim Asylum Seekers in Germany ?Having A Bad Day.? So They Rape A Woman. | Daily Wire

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8663/germany-migrants-rape

1,200 German women were sexually assaulted on New Year?s Eve in Cologne | Daily Mail Online

If you think the sexual harassment and rape of German women isn't a problem, then I think you are a minority......but then I'm sure you know better.
 
OrphanSlug said:
What a damn fiasco, how could this "sharia police" be legal? (We may need someone from Germany to explain this one.)
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They're, legal for the same reason that Guardian Angels are legal in this country. They're just a neighborhood patrol looking after their own people and anything they may say to anybody else means nothing. Moreover, the Muslims that are spoken to don't have to do anything that they're told in a free country. For them it's all about being socially acceptable. I don't see the harm in it.
 
jet57 said:
They're, legal for the same reason that Guardian Angels are legal in this country. They're just a neighborhood patrol looking after their own people and anything they may say to anybody else means nothing. Moreover, the Muslims that are spoken to don't have to do anything that they're told in a free country. For them it's all about being socially acceptable. I don't see the harm in it.
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I grew up in a Muslim neighborhood and I know those sort of people, so let me tell you a few things about them:

* If you think proselyte Muslims simply talk things out, you are very wrong. French brown people are not free to choose their religion. Eating during the ramadan can result in being aggressed with severe or fatal physical damages. Wearing sexy clothes for a woman can get her raped. Besides of infringing on French citizens' rights, this has severe consequences for assimilation and the perpetuation of this toxic religion.

* If you think proselyte Muslims only focus on brown people (who you name "their" people), you are wrong. Blasphemy is never tolerated anywhere. For the rest it depends on the concentration of Muslims in the neighborhood: pork-based products, alcohol, sexy clothes for white women, homosexuals, Jews, white or Asian shop owners, teachers who insist on the Shoah or evolutionism, noncompliant books, all eventually get "removed".


Muslim neighborhoods always progress towards 110% Islamicity. This is a totalitarianism, and the actors are too many, the sect too big and territorially entrenched, and the pressure too diffuse and omnipresent to be tackled at the judiciary level.
 
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Auvergnat said:
I grew up in a Muslim neighborhood and I know those sort of people, so let me tell you a few things about them:

* If you think proselyte Muslims simply talk things out, you are very wrong. French brown people are not free to choose their religion. Eating during the ramadan can result in being aggressed with severe or fatal physical damages. Wearing sexy clothes for a woman can get her raped. Besides of infringing on French citizens' rights, this has severe consequences for assimilation and the perpetuation of this toxic religion.

* If you think proselyte Muslims only focus on brown people (who you name "their" people), you are wrong. Blasphemy is never tolerated anywhere. For the rest it depends on the concentration of Muslims in the neighborhood: pork-based products, alcohol, sexy clothes for white women, homosexuals, Jews, white or Asian shop owners, teachers who insist on the Shoah or evolutionism, noncompliant books, all eventually get "removed".


Muslim neighborhoods always progress towards 110% Islamicity. This is a totalitarianism, and the actors are too many, the sect too big and territorially entrenched, and the pressure too diffuse and omnipresent to be tackled at the judiciary level.
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It's great that you have some experience. The San Francisco Bay Area is one the most heavily populated Muslim destinations in the world. Moreover, I've spent may a year with southern evangelicals, who are just as judgmental and the point is of the two, neither has any legal authority. Because Muslims fall in line and kowtow to that is their fault.

You can dislike their Sharia law the pretend authority all you want, but you should remember that it doesn't add up to a hill of beans.
 
jet57 said:
neither has any legal authority.
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You do not need legal authority when the masses side with you. Muslim fanatics in France have successfully reshaped / are reshaping all neighborhoods where Muslims form the majority, because even moderates side with them. And the number of Muslim neighborhoods desperately grow every year, both in number and radicalism.

The San Francisco Bay Area is one the most heavily populated Muslim destinations in the world.
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Major bull****. They amount to 3.5% of the population of SF bay area. 7% in France, 10-20% in Paris, 30% of the youth in Paris' region. But I am not surprised that just 3.5% are so visible.

Our problems and your "problems" are separated by a magnitude of order of difference. Do not let Muslim communities grow. Ban them out of your country whole you still can.

Mass immigration is always a stupid idea, mass Muslim immigration is a catastrophe.
 
To get this back onto the original issue that prompted this thread (the focus thing you appear to have such difficulties with again)
Auvergnat said:
~...................... 7% in France, 10-20% in Paris, 30% of the youth in Paris' region. But I am not surprised that just 3.5% are so visible.
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.........the German town of Wuppertal (where this Sharia stupidity was practiced as a publicity gag) holds upwards of 8 pct Muslims and all organisations representing them condemned the whole issue (joke, PR gag or undertaken in all seriousness) when it happened already 2 years ago.
You do not need legal authority when the masses side with you.
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Yet another gish gallop, if even a mini here, that is totally bereft of any factuality where this particular issue is concerned.

No masses sided with this crap in Wuppertal.
Our problems and your "problems" are separated by a magnitude of order of difference.
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You'd do well to remember that when you start spouting forth on locations you know nothing about.

It also becomes more and more apparent that the only authority that you possess to speak even of your home country, is that which you have appointed to yourself. One might say deluded yourself into possessing.

Because, as is apparent to anyone that has some knowledge of your country (and having friends there, I, for one, even visit it quite frequently), you are in no way authorized to speak for all of it at all, let alone for all your countrymen (and -women).

Whatever part of French society you actually DO represent, it is not sufficient in size to make you the authority for all of France that you appear to delude yourself into being.
Do not let Muslim communities grow. Ban them out of your country whole you still can.

Mass immigration is always a stupid idea, mass Muslim immigration is a catastrophe.
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You're entitled to express whatever opinion and it is duly noted.

As being nothing more than that.
 
Chagos said:
To get this back onto the original issue that prompted this thread (the focus thing you appear to have such difficulties with again).........the German town of Wuppertal (where this Sharia stupidity was practiced as a publicity gag) holds upwards of 8 pct Muslims and all organisations representing them condemned the whole issue (joke, PR gag or undertaken in all seriousness) when it happened already 2 years ago. Yet another gish gallop, if even a mini here, that is totally bereft of any factuality where this particular issue is concerned.

No masses sided with this crap in Wuppertal. You'd do well to remember that when you start spouting forth on locations you know nothing about.

It also becomes more and more apparent that the only authority that you possess to speak even of your home country, is that which you have appointed to yourself. One might say deluded yourself into possessing.

Because, as is apparent to anyone that has some knowledge of your country (and having friends there, I, for one, even visit it quite frequently), you are in no way authorized to speak for all of it at all, let alone for all your countrymen (and -women).

Whatever part of French society you actually DO represent, it is not sufficient in size to make you the authority for all of France that you appear to delude yourself into being. You're entitled to express whatever opinion and it is duly noted.

As being nothing more than that.
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It is a popular opinion and a growing one.
 
Chagos said:
Whatever part of French society you actually DO represent, it is not sufficient in size to make you the authority for all of France that you appear to delude yourself into being.
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75% of French people think that Islam progresses too much.
66% of French people think there are too many immigrants.
11% of French people think immigration has positive outcomes for our country.
68% of French people think that Muslims are poorly integrated. Only 14% of French people blame our racism for this. 67% blame Muslims for not wanting to integrate.
100% of our presidential candidates' programs will let Islam grows and immigration continues mostly untouched. This includes the far-right.

Those numbers have been rising year after year for a long time, just like the share of Muslims. Note that the polls are not that different in Germany: 71% think that Islam is poorly integrated. IFOP polls. French sources are available through PM on demand (I got a warning for posting sources in French about France). PS: some numbers were initially provided from memory, I edited the post to stick to the two sources I found back.

France is also one of the European countries with the least prejudices against Muslims. We just have too many of them and it does not work.
 
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Auvergnat said:
The Guardian: A German court has ruled that a group of Islamists did not break the law in forming “sharia police” street patrols and telling people to stop drinking, gambling and listening to music.
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And the Salvation Army in the US should wear uniforms?

Freedom of religion is a basic freedom, and should be allowed. They may wish to call themselves the Sharia Police, which is a gross exaggeration of the truth. But "gross exaggeration" is nothing new to mankind. Public proselytizing doesn't occur in the US, or Britain? Of course it does, and many beliefs do it.

My doorbell has been rung several times by 7th Day Adventist proselytizers here in France. It was pleasant to speak English, and I invited them in for coffee. Big deal - if they had been promoting Sharia, our conversation might have been more interesting.

Sharia is for some very ignorant people, and it will likely not take root in Germany. Neither will take root in Europe the sort of ISIS Sharia that exists in the Middle-east. Here in Europe, the base societal-conditions simply do not exist as in many Middle-east countries where Muslim is the predominant religion and women are reduced almost exclusively to the role of motherhood.

In fact, for this reason alone, Muslim women should be given a special consideration before being expulsed from the EU, especially if they have children ...
 
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Views of Muslims vary widely across European countries. A Pew Research Center survey conducted this spring in 10 nations found that in eastern and southern Europe, negative views prevailed. However, the majority of respondents in the UK, Germany, France, Sweden and the Netherlands gave Muslims a favorable rating. Views about Muslims are tied to ideology. While 47% of Germans on the political right give Muslims an unfavorable rating, just 17% on the left do so. The gap between left and right is also roughly 30 percentage points in Italy and Greece.
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5 facts about the Muslim population in Europe | Pew Research Center
 
Auvergnat said:
75% of French people think that Islam progresses too much.
66% of French people think there are too many immigrants.
11% of French people think immigration has positive outcomes for our country.
68% of French people think that Muslims are poorly integrated. Only 14% of French people blame our racism for this. 67% blame Muslims for not wanting to integrate.
100% of our presidential candidates' programs will let Islam grows and immigration continues mostly untouched. This includes the far-right.

Those numbers have been rising year after year for a long time, just like the share of Muslims. Note that the polls are not that different in Germany: 71% think that Islam is poorly integrated. IFOP polls. French sources are available through PM on demand (I got a warning for posting sources in French about France). PS: some numbers were initially provided from memory, I edited the post to stick to the two sources I found back.

France is also one of the European countries with the least prejudices against Muslims. We just have too many of them and it does not work.
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France is also one of the European countries with the least prejudices against Muslims.
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Thanks for making my point.
 
Auvergnat said:
You do not need legal authority when the masses side with you. Muslim fanatics in France have successfully reshaped / are reshaping all neighborhoods where Muslims form the majority, because even moderates side with them. And the number of Muslim neighborhoods desperately grow every year, both in number and radicalism.


Major bull****. They amount to 3.5% of the population of SF bay area. 7% in France, 10-20% in Paris, 30% of the youth in Paris' region. But I am not surprised that just 3.5% are so visible.

Our problems and your "problems" are separated by a magnitude of order of difference. Do not let Muslim communities grow. Ban them out of your country whole you still can.

Mass immigration is always a stupid idea, mass Muslim immigration is a catastrophe.
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You're giving too much importance to a nothing. Nobody is going to ban immigrants. As I recall, when the French have a trike, the whole country shuts down. So, call a strike and deal with it.
 
jet57 said:
You're giving too much importance to a nothing. Nobody is going to ban immigrants. As I recall, when the French have a trike, the whole country shuts down. So, call a strike and deal with it.
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When the French are landed with a trike, they get hold of a 4th wheel fast. :mrgreen:
 
jet57 said:
Nobody is going to ban immigrants.
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Europe will ban immigration in the future, it is inevitable. Mark my words.

First of all because the share of immigrants in our societies have kept growing and the popular backlash against them is foreever increasing and dominating the politics. This is a long-term inevitable movement. Everywhere the far-right movements have been rising for decades in Europe and the USA. The liberal and multicultural decades are vanishing, the pendulum is now swinging to the right.

Second of all because within a few decades Africa and the Middle East will have a twice bigger population than today, yet global warming will have made larger parts of those lands desertic, uninhabitable and infertile. The Middle East alone is going to routinely see temperatures above 50°C on most of its territory (122°F). Moreover religious fundamentalism is on the rise, and religious conflicts with them.

So the immigration waves and refugee waves we see today are nothing in comparison to the numbers we will see pressing at our doors. If we do not reform immigration, we will see so many of them that a totalitarian backlash and ethnic cleansing will be inevitable.
 
Auvergnat said:
Europe will ban immigration in the future, it is inevitable. Mark my words.

First of all because the share of immigrants in our societies have kept growing and the popular backlash against them is foreever increasing and dominating the politics. This is a long-term inevitable movement. Everywhere the far-right movements have been rising for decades in Europe and the USA. The liberal and multicultural decades are vanishing, the pendulum is now swinging to the right.

Second of all because within a few decades Africa and the Middle East will have a twice bigger population than today, yet global warming will have made larger parts of those lands desertic, uninhabitable and infertile. The Middle East alone is going to routinely see temperatures above 50°C on most of its territory (122°F). Moreover religious fundamentalism is on the rise, and religious conflicts with them.

So the immigration waves and refugee waves we see today are nothing in comparison to the numbers we will see pressing at our doors. If we do not reform immigration, we will see so many of them that a totalitarian backlash and ethnic cleansing will be inevitable.
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Okay; good luck with that.
 
jet57 said:
Okay; good luck with that.
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No need for luck, it is a simple matter of will. Ending immigration will be easy once we make our move: illegals were never our problem, we are electronic societies with identity cards, national databases with pictures, cops controlling every brown guy, and cameras on every corner.

And absolutely every available indicator for the past decades has slowly built this will and made us converge towards the future I told you. Civilizational shifts take decades, but they are nearly impossible to stop. The rise of the far-right is the logical consequence of the past liberal policies, just like the rise of liberalism was the logical consequence of the past far-right policies.
 
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