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Brexit court defeat for UK government

So he's not going to apologize for not being a racist and doesn't want his country to become a 4th Reich.

And

If you want to claim that he's accusing you of either by inference, you'd better wait til he accuses you outright.

I'm personally glad at usually being able to avoid becoming an over-emotional twit. You want to make anything of that?
 
I'm personally glad at usually being able to avoid becoming an over-emotional twit. You want to make anything of that?
Maybe one day you should try to focus on the actual issues rather than constantly try to drag every discussion into an ad hominem mud fight.

Why do you and others make it impossible to have a civil and factual discussion about immigration without the words "rabid", "racist", "nazi", "xenophobe", "hatred", "fear", "emotional", "rant", "vociferation", "hysteria", and various comments on the participants' intelligence and alleged emotional state?
 
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Maybe one day you should try to focus on the actual issues rather than constantly try to drag every discussion into an ad hominem mud fight.
Maybe one day you'll let go of your propensity for projection and take your own advice instead.
Could we, for once, have a factual discussion about immigration without the words "rabid", "racist", "nazi", "xenophobe", "hatred", "fear", "emotional", "rant", "vociferation", and various comments on my intelligence?
see above.

Beyond all of which (seeing your bringing ad hominem accusations into this), this here is about what was actually said as opposed to what you claim as being said. Specifically your claim mounting in accusations that are shown as false.
 
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Two pages ago you called ma racist and a Nazi after I told you to limit your immigration, have you already forgotten?

Have I ever tried to deny you the right to say what you want and to be what you are ?

What I have said is that you are trying to decry me (and doubtless many of my countrymen) for not wanting being the same

I'm not a bigot and I'm very comfortable with that :thumbs:
 
Just in case you were under the impression that our votes actually mattered, democracy is dead.

Well it's the UK, like the US, democracy isn't part of it's title.. they are Constitutional "insert title". So for UK, Constitutional Monarchy.
 
No, I don't think parliament is likely to ignore the referendum result, but it may well restrict the negotiating position of the government and rule out the hard Brexit option, for example. Legally the referendum isn't binding, but politically, especially for the Tories, it absolutely IS binding.

It'll also be binding for the Libs as well. Backlash to both parties could be severe if will of the people are ignored.
 
Two years ago our pound bought $1.71 today it is $ 1.22 as a consequence rampant price inflation is just starting to happen here given we import almost everything. Given we do not make anything and there are already rumblings from the likes of HSBC and others about quitting the city of London for Frankfurt or Paris and with both Scotland and Northern Ireland threatening to abandon the sinking ship the omens aren't good.

Flipping the bird at the EU hasn't done us any favours and waving a flag is no substitute for sound economic prudence. Our economy simply hasn't a large enough critical mass to enable us to go it alone :(

While that might seem bad.. from an economic stand point, the pound falling to a close parity to the Euro and Dollar is actually good for foreign investment and trade. UK still makes things (Bentley, Rolls Royce, Bombardier trains and so on). HSBC isn't leaving London nor is US banks or other EU banks in London as London has access to markets the US and EU don't have access to, think China. London is the 2nd largest market for Yuan (Rmb) currency trade in the world (1st is Hong Kong). It's so much easier for US and EU banks to do business in UK then it is in Hong Kong.

Scotland and Northern Ireland was always gonna leave. Question was when and what political issue could, in the case of Northern Ireland get Catholics and Protestants to agree..
 
While that might seem bad.. from an economic stand point, the pound falling to a close parity to the Euro and Dollar is actually good for foreign investment and trade.
Leaving aside investment, how will less buying power of own currency be good for a country suffering trade deficit as heavily as UK? With the deficit widening.?
UK still makes things (Bentley, Rolls Royce,
the absolute most miniscule spec of dust on the world's car markets. On the principle that more Ferraris and Maseratis are sold individually than all Bentleys and Rolls together, I suppose that would make Italy most economically sound.:roll:
Bombardier trains and so on).
Bombardier trains ain't British. What's more they've just announced massive job cuts in UK.

Care to elaborate on the "and so on" ?
HSBC isn't leaving London nor is US banks or other EU banks in London as London has access to markets the US and EU don't have access to, think China.
I'll call that bolded bit simply silly and leave it at that.
London is the 2nd largest market for Yuan (Rmb) currency trade in the world (1st is Hong Kong). It's the second largest clearing centre. That's different to"market".
It's so much easier for US and EU banks to do business in UK then it is in Hong Kong.
Why? How? Considering that Hong Kong is the largest clearing centre for Yüan. And I found doing business there as easy when it was still under Crown rule as I did once it returned under Chinese rule. No more difficult than doing business in London.
Scotland and Northern Ireland was always gonna leave. Question was when and what political issue could, in the case of Northern Ireland get Catholics and Protestants to agree..
Irrelevant and non-sequitur.

Are you really studying economics? And if so, where?
 
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Leaving aside investment, how will less buying power of own currency be good for a country suffering trade deficit as heavily as UK? With the deficit widening.?

Because the country in question (UK) should have never had that value of the pound. Deficits swing but UK's biggest deficit widening comes from the EU trade but since Brexit that gap has lessen and again in November.

the absolute most miniscule spec of dust on the world's car markets. On the principle that more Ferraris and Maseratis are sold individually than all Bentleys and Rolls together, I suppose that would make Italy most economically sound.:roll:

Bentley and Rolls Royce are the gold standard of cars. The more affordable they become for US, China and other markets, the more they will sell. Unlike Italy, UK has the ability to devalue. Not to mention Airplane engines for Rolls ;)

Bombardier trains ain't British. What's more they've just announced massive job cuts in UK.

No, they aren't UK company wise but the Turbostar and Electrostar are made in the UK. Bombardier could find the UK a better place to HQ then Berlin for tax purposes.

Care to elaborate on the "and so on" ?

So on are things that the UK is known for. Things like the BBC, BKLYN, and Sofas by Saxon (not known to many but would play well in the US). Personally I don't understand how BBC (UK Government) has not offered it's channels in the US yet (outside of BBC America), BBC shows are a hit in the US. BBC should be collecting $4b a year from the US (assuming $5 a month fee, $60 a year, for 77m households who have BBC America). Then lowering cost for you Brits. Now imagine that all over the world. BBC would bring billions to British coffers. Yet.. that's not the case. UK Government sits on its hands on this while people I know escape license fees.

I'll call that bolded bit simply silly and leave it at that. Why? How? Considering that Hong Kong is the largest clearing centre for Yüan. And I found doing business there as easy when it was still under Crown rule as I did once it returned under Chinese rule. No more difficult than doing business in London.

US and EU banks don't have ties to China (Hong Kong) that many UK banks do have. Hong Kong is the largest clearing house. But London is second. Not NYC or Frankfurt. It's not about UK vs Chinese difference but rather EU vs Chinese or US vs Chinese differences.

Politically, US and China are gonna be in a "trade war" with Trump elected. So UK will be the middle man.

Irrelevant and non-sequitur.

To you. But to Scots, Scot-Irish and Irish Republicans.. its a big deal.

Are you really studying economics? And if so, where?

I am done studying it at University level.
 
Because the country in question (UK) should have never had that value of the pound.
???? :confused:
Deficits swing but UK's biggest deficit widening comes from the EU trade but since Brexit that gap has lessen
I don't bother with links that I have to subscribe to
do you actually read what you link to? That last link (Reuters) speaks of the 3rd quarter so where you get "November" from is anyone's guess. It also states that
However, the trade deficit in goods heavily overshot economists' expectations in September alone,
That tell you anything?
Bentley and Rolls Royce are the gold standard of cars. The more affordable they become for US, China and other markets, the more they will sell.
Bentley is Volkswagen and they currently turn out around 10,000 vehicles. They've also suffered over 8 pct drop in sales this year (Bentley, not Volkswagen). Rolls is BMW, reporting 7 pct sales drop of their own (Rolls, not BMW).

You appear sadly misinformed on the UK car industry which cannot even be called British.
Unlike Italy, UK has the ability to devalue.
My reference to Ferraris and Maseratis clearly went right over your head.
Not to mention Airplane engines for Rolls ;)
depends on what happens with Airbus which employs as much P&W and GE (besides RR) as do other airliner producers. But the jet engine production is not something the UK economy can base itself upon anyway.
No, they aren't UK company wise but the Turbostar and Electrostar are made in the UK. Bombardier could find the UK a better place to HQ then Berlin for tax purposes.
Wha.????:roll: Ferchrissake, both models are built exclusively for the UK market. And how the heck would Bombardier want to HQ its Europe business in a country that is (compared to the rest of Europe) the smallest market of the lot, when that country is no longer part of that economic zone?

So on are things that the UK is known for. Things like the BBC, BKLYN, and Sofas by Saxon (not known to many but would play well in the US). Personally I don't understand how BBC (UK Government) has not offered it's channels in the US yet (outside of BBC America), BBC shows are a hit in the US. BBC should be collecting $4b a year from the US (assuming $5 a month fee, $60 a year, for 77m households who have BBC America). Then lowering cost for you Brits. Now imagine that all over the world. BBC would bring billions to British coffers. Yet.. that's not the case. UK Government sits on its hands on this while people I know escape license fees.
In the overall picture this is so irrelevant and also so silly, that I'll not comment on it any further.
US and EU banks don't have ties to China (Hong Kong) that many UK banks do have.
Same applies here, it's an absolutely ridiculous statement.
Hong Kong is the largest clearing house. But London is second. Not NYC or Frankfurt. It's not about UK vs Chinese difference but rather EU vs Chinese or US vs Chinese differences.
Don't even know what you're attempting to say here. But if you're implying that London is the 2nd biggest clearing site for Chinese currency simply on account of its special and exclusive expertise on China, you're truly living in cloud cuckoo land.

Politically, US and China are gonna be in a "trade war" with Trump elected. So UK will be the middle man.
Do you read that in tea leaves or in coffee slop?:roll:
I am done studying it at University level.
What with the ignorance you display on world markets, it would appear you haven't even started yet.

At ANY level.
 
Bentley and Rolls Royce are the gold standard of cars. The more affordable they become for US, China and other markets, the more they will sell. Unlike Italy, UK has the ability to devalue. Not to mention Airplane engines for Rolls ;)
lol :)
No, they aren't UK company wise but the Turbostar and Electrostar are made in the UK. Bombardier could find the UK a better place to HQ then Berlin for tax purposes.
hehe

So on are things that the UK is known for. Things like the BBC, BKLYN, and Sofas by Saxon (not known to many but would play well in the US). Personally I don't understand how BBC (UK Government) has not offered it's channels in the US yet (outside of BBC America), BBC shows are a hit in the US. BBC should be collecting $4b a year from the US (assuming $5 a month fee, $60 a year, for 77m households who have BBC America). Then lowering cost for you Brits. Now imagine that all over the world. BBC would bring billions to British coffers. Yet.. that's not the case. UK Government sits on its hands on this while people I know escape license fees.
[/QUOTE]
Nuts, they are morons^^

US and EU banks don't have ties to China (Hong Kong) that many UK banks do have. Hong Kong is the largest clearing house. But London is second. Not NYC or Frankfurt. It's not about UK vs Chinese difference but rather EU vs Chinese or US vs Chinese differences.

Politically, US and China are gonna be in a "trade war" with Trump elected. So UK will be the middle man.

yeah, right.

To you. But to Scots, Scot-Irish and Irish Republicans.. its a big deal.



I am done studying it at University level.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Study it at another level... maybe?

sorry about my editing skills....
 
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The pound was overvalued. What don't you get about that? Pound never fell below $1.40 handle during Great Recession. It should have fallen further as the British economy has been weak since 2008.

Bentley is Volkswagen and they currently turn out around 10,000 vehicles. They've also suffered over 8 pct drop in sales this year (Bentley, not Volkswagen). Rolls is BMW, reporting 7 pct sales drop of their own (Rolls, not BMW).

Bentley sales are down. But Bentley has is a big reason for this. Bentley pushed in 2016 it's demo models in the US as they were getting ready to put the Bentayga crossover on the market and needed space. Bentayga is already sold out a year in advance in the US and is in other parts of the world... China is an issue right now for both. But despite China, Rolls still had it's second largest sale total in it's history.

You appear sadly misinformed on the UK car industry which cannot even be called British. My reference to Ferraris and Maseratis clearly went right over your head.

No, I got it.. but for those who buy luxury cars, they care where the cars are made, not who owns the brand. They know a RR or Bentley is UK designed and UK made. A Ferrari is designed and made in Italy. They don't care if BWM or Volkswagen owns the brand. Just like they don't who owns Land Rovers. If your an American, you don't care that Mack Trucks are owned by Volvo because they know Mack Trucks sold in the US are manufactured in Allentown, PA and parts are made in Hagerstown, MD.


depends on what happens with Airbus which employs as much P&W and GE (besides RR) as do other airliner producers. But the jet engine production is not something the UK economy can base itself upon anyway.

Of course.. there is always competition. But RR doesn't do too bad with it's engines. Got a nice deal from Norway, it has Iran deal in hand as well, Air China and Emirates which together is close to £10b over the next 3 years. RR engines are also on Boeings 777 and 787 series of Airplanes. For the 787, 50% of the market goes to RR.


Wha.????:roll: Ferchrissake, both models are built exclusively for the UK market. And how the heck would Bombardier want to HQ its Europe business in a country that is (compared to the rest of Europe) the smallest market of the lot, when that country is no longer part of that economic zone?

Yes, they are, but who says they can't be used in the US or elsewhere? Track gauge is the same in most of the US, China and Australia (to name a few). Companies move HQs for tax purposes. Burger King moved HQ from US to Canada. Medtronic bought Covidien (in Ireland) and moved it's HQ to Ireland. Purina merged with Nestlé and moved it's HQ to Switzerland. McDermott moved its HQ from New Orleans to Panama. Seagate moved from California to Ireland. Actavis/Allergan moved from New Jersey to Ireland.

It's all about tax inversion.

In the overall picture this is so irrelevant and also so silly, that I'll not comment on it any further.

Overall picture is about using UK assets to bring in more revenue. BBC is THE BIGGEST assets of the UK.

Same applies here, it's an absolutely ridiculous statement. Don't even know what you're attempting to say here. But if you're implying that London is the 2nd biggest clearing site for Chinese currency simply on account of its special and exclusive expertise on China, you're truly living in cloud cuckoo land.

No, it's about the US and China entering a trade war right now where the only party in the world not involved in it that has the 2nd largest clearing house and will get a Free Trade deal with the US almost right away is the UK. EU-US trade deal is off, Asia-US trade deal is off. But due to the US-UK relationship a trade deal is 100% certain.


Do you read that in tea leaves or in coffee slop?:roll:What with the ignorance you display on world markets, it would appear you haven't even started yet.

At ANY level.

No, my B.A. in Economics from Penn State, my MBA from Ohio State and my Ph.D from UZH (Zurich) along with my years of working on Wall Street, in Frankfurt and owning my own business. I disagree with you but it doesn't make anybody wrong.. Whatever happen to the UK stiff upper lip mentality, I'll never know.
 
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From cars to trains to banks, I see nothing but nonsense spouted, so I don't see much point in continuing this discussion.
 
From cars to trains to banks, I see nothing but nonsense spouted, so I don't see much point in continuing this discussion.

and that's fine.. just remember you were screaming it was the end of the world.. and yet UK is doing better then most of the EU after Brexit.
 
and that's fine.. just remember you were screaming it was the end of the world.. and yet UK is doing better then most of the EU after Brexit.

But Brexit has not happened yet..
 
Yet the markets are treating it as so.

No they are not lol. How can they treat it as so, when they dont know what the **** the Brits want out of the EU relationship? What the markets are reacting to (pound wise especially) is the uncertainty, not the actual negotiated deal for leaving the EU.
 
No they are not lol. How can they treat it as so, when they dont know what the **** the Brits want out of the EU relationship? What the markets are reacting to (pound wise especially) is the uncertainty, not the actual negotiated deal for leaving the EU.

Why do you think the British pound fell in value? It's not uncertainty, but rather revaluing the pound to a level of "parity" to euro like the Swiss Franc.
 
Why do you think the British pound fell in value? It's not uncertainty, but rather revaluing the pound to a level of "parity" to euro like the Swiss Franc.
Hooo, the Brits did it on purpose

:lamo:lamo
 
What uncertainty? The British economy is fine, thank you very much.

Sorry Pos, but their is a lot of signs that the British Economy is not fine. There are a lot of signs that things are getting worse. The Vote on Brexit was on June the 24th and yes in the beginning it did not look all that bad, but slowly we are starting to see the signs that economically Britain is starting to deteriorate.


Joey
 
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And we also devalued because we have SO much manufacturing and export produce that would benefit from a weaker pound... [/sarcasm]

On other matters, a growing realisation that working out trade with the EU may not be as quick or easy as many Brexit supporters think.

Brexit trade deal could take 10 years, says UK's ambassador - BBC News
really rich is this
Downing Street said he was relaying other EU members' views, rather than his own or the British government's.
Well, who's effing view is pertinent here?

There still seems to be the illusion that all the shots on future relationship are going to be called in Downing Street. Or, as I suspect strongly, Downing Street is trying to sell that version to the home populace.

Alone the outlined issue of any deal having to be ratified by ALL EU member states raises the question over how (for example) Romania and Poland are going to show agreement, if London pursues its promise of curbing free movement.
 
~ There still seems to be the illusion that all the shots on future relationship are going to be called in Downing Street ~

By the time we really get to the nitty gritty of it, those who want Brexit at any cost won't have changed their minds but those arguing for soft Brexit will be bothering about other news - such as falling standards of living, loss of employment, expensive foreign goods etc.
 
By the time we really get to the nitty gritty of it, those who want Brexit at any cost won't have changed their minds but those arguing for soft Brexit will be bothering about other news - such as falling standards of living, loss of employment, expensive foreign goods etc.
Not much of a change then to the pre-referendum times.
 
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