• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

France Closes 4 Mosques for Promoting 'Radical Ideology'

truthatallcost

truthatallcost

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
26,719
Reaction score
6,278
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
France’s interior minister has ordered the closure of four mosques that allegedly espoused a ‘radical ideology,’ the latest such shutdowns among dozens since the Nov. 13 Paris attacks nearly a year ago.

Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve ordered the mosques in the Paris region closed on Wednesday. A ministry statement did not name the mosques, located east, west and north of the city.

“Under cover of religion, these places held meetings that in reality were aimed at promoting a radical ideology,” the statement said.

Dozens of mosques where radicalism allegedly thrived have been closed and non-citizens, including imams, expelled since the attacks that killed 130 people.
Click to expand...


I'm glad that France is trying to suppress 'radical' Islam, or, just 'Islam' as many of us would see it, but this should have been done at least 10 years ago.


Thoughts?
Comments?


France closes 4 mosques for promoting 'radical ideology' | The Times of Israel
 
Only 1200 more radical Mosques to go! This is the number of Mosques/prayer rooms controlled by islamists (by the UOIF, the branch of Muslim Brotherhood)...

I doubt the rest of the 2500 Mosques are very liberal though. After all they do profess Muhammad's teachings, something forever incompatible with western values.

The dozens of Mosques closed so far are barely the ones that organized or encouraged violence.
 
truthatallcost said:
I'm glad that France is trying to suppress 'radical' Islam, or, just 'Islam' as many of us would see it, but this should have been done at least 10 years ago.


Thoughts?
Comments?


France closes 4 mosques for promoting 'radical ideology' | The Times of Israel
Click to expand...

Has been happening the last 10+ years.. just not much coverage of it. Imans have been kicked out and so on. Nothing new.

Does it work.. not really, I suspect it just drives the radicals more underground.
 
Auvergnat said:
Only 1200 more radical Mosques to go! This is the number of Mosques/prayer rooms controlled by islamists (by the UOIF, the branch of Muslim Brotherhood)...

I doubt the rest of the 2500 Mosques are very liberal though. After all they do profess Muhammad's teachings, something forever incompatible with western values.

The dozens of Mosques closed so far are barely the ones that organized or encouraged violence.
Click to expand...

You mean the ones that were found to be organizing or encouraging violence.
I seriously doubt the French authorities are aware of every Imam in the country who preaches radical Islamist values.
 
spud_meister said:
Freedom of what?
Click to expand...
Great, accuse us of trampling over freedom of religion because we shut down Mosques where imams call people to butcher us. You're so righteous!

If only we were really trampling over their freedom of religion, I would love it. Islam only deserves to be forgotten, mankind would be much freer, enlightened and peaceful without this retrograde and totalitarian ideology. I will vote for anyone proposing to close all Mosques.
 
Last edited:
PeteEU said:
Does it work.. not really, I suspect it just drives the radicals more underground.
Click to expand...
I suggest this is your way to claim that imams who call to kill your children should be left preaching, so that they do not "go underground".

Maybe we should also let criminals free, so that crime stops going underground?
 
Auvergnat said:
Great, accuse us of trampling over freedom of religion because we shut down Mosques where imams call people to butcher us. You're so righteous!

If only we were really trampling over their freedom of religion, I would love it. Islam only deserves to be forgotten, mankind would be much freer, enlightened and peaceful without this retrograde and totalitarian ideology. I will vote for anyone proposing to close all Mosques.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you feel that way. There's literally no better way to promote radical Islam than with violent repression.
 
Auvergnat said:
I suggest this is your way to claim that imams who call to kill your children should be left preaching, so that they do not "go underground".

Maybe we should also let criminals free, so that crime stops going underground?
Click to expand...

No, where do I suggest that? Just stating that, like with drugs or other "illegal" things, once banned it tends to move underground.

My personal opinion is that the Imans should only come from France (or the country in question.. same would apply for all other religions) and have grown up with western values and influence. They need approval by government (same with Christian and Jewish preachers btw.. cant discriminate)... by this I mean, they need to understand or be taught the basic values of western society (which they most likely already have since the requirement for all imans to be born in France).

The reasoning being that, almost all (note the almost) problematic preachers of any religion come from outside of European countries and it is especially a problem with Islam.

But dealing with the radical Imans wont stop radicalism... it might minimize it, or as I stated just drive it underground.

Think Romania and other places, where religion was banned. What did they do? They had underground churches where people went. So banning or closing things does not work always..
 
spud_meister said:
There's literally no better way to promote radical Islam than with violent repression.
Click to expand...
And you repel Islam by submitting to it, by abiding to every of its requests, by changing your laws and customs anytime you are asked to, and defending it everywhere and anytime? Very smart.

We tried concessions for decades and it splendidly failed, worsening year after year. Now we have to impose OUR values. Either we risk a civil war, either we islamize, I choose the former.
 
PeteEU said:
Think Romania and other places, where religion was banned. What did they do? They had underground churches where people went. So banning or closing things does not work always..
Click to expand...
Of course it will not make it completely disappear, but it will make it recess and it will stop its spread.

But the heart of the solution lies in demography and identity:
* Preventing the coming of new Muslims and expelling non-citizens. Zero immigration. This is possible but we have to renounce the European version of the human rights as it forces familial immigration and is frequently used to impose too short detention time for illegal immigrants, which undermines their expulsion.

* Making our nationals proselytes of their own culture and identity.

* Making our citizens intolerant to Islam. Ostracize Islam, paint it black, make it something that everyone hate and that children of Muslims are ashamed of and want to drop.


And we have to do all of that without making Muslims look like victims, otherwise in fifty or hundred years our descendants will tolerate Islam again. We really need to durably ostracize Islam in France and elsewhere. That being said I expect Islam to do terrible things all around the world over the course of this century, this should be enough.
 
PeteEU said:
No, where do I suggest that? Just stating that, like with drugs or other "illegal" things, once banned it tends to move underground.

My personal opinion is that the Imans should only come from France (or the country in question.. same would apply for all other religions) and have grown up with western values and influence. They need approval by government (same with Christian and Jewish preachers btw.. cant discriminate)... by this I mean, they need to understand or be taught the basic values of western society (which they most likely already have since the requirement for all imans to be born in France).

The reasoning being that, almost all (note the almost) problematic preachers of any religion come from outside of European countries and it is especially a problem with Islam.

But dealing with the radical Imans wont stop radicalism... it might minimize it, or as I stated just drive it underground.

Think Romania and other places, where religion was banned. What did they do? They had underground churches where people went. So banning or closing things does not work always..
Click to expand...

That'd be Imams, not Imans, and there are plenty of radical Imams who are homegrown.
As pointed very accurately by Auvergnat every type of criminal would go underground when the law is targeting them, that doesn't mean that the law should not target them but that there needs to be other methods to tackle that type of criminals in addition to the law.
 
Apocalypse said:
That'd be Imams, not Imans, and there are plenty of radical Imams who are homegrown.
Click to expand...

Relatively speaking no. Most radical imans are from abroad. Of course there are a few, but the vast majority are not homegrown.
 
PeteEU said:
Relatively speaking no. Most radical imans are from abroad. Of course there are a few, but the vast majority are not homegrown.
Click to expand...
According to my own experience and available statistics, most of second generation Muslims are radicals, with more than half of them being antisemites and homophobes, and the vast majority wanting to ban blasphemy. So I fail to see how Imams could be less radical than them!

Moreover I have to remind you that we do not really have problems with immigrants, rather with second, third and fourth generation Muslims. Many immigrants are radicals of course, but they keep a low profile, as opposed to their descendants.
 
ocean515 said:
I'm guessing it's a tad better than promoting radical Islam by ignoring it.
Click to expand...

The best way to infuriate wasps is to hit their nest with a stick. Does a much better job than ignoring them.
 
PeteEU said:
Relatively speaking no. Most radical imans are from abroad. Of course there are a few, but the vast majority are not homegrown.
Click to expand...

Do you have something that proves that? Islam can make anyone, anywhere, into a fanatic. It is designed to inspire just that.
 
Auvergnat said:
According to my own experience and available statistics, most of second generation Muslims are radicals, with more than half of them being antisemites and homophobes, and the vast majority wanting to ban blasphemy. So I fail to see how Imams could be less radical than them!

Moreover I have to remind you that we do not really have problems with immigrants, rather with second, third and fourth generation Muslims. Many immigrants are radicals of course, but they keep a low profile, as opposed to their descendants.
Click to expand...

I don't know, but the second and third generation in the UK and France have been rather susceptible to radicalism.
 
PeteEU said:
Relatively speaking no. Most radical imans are from abroad. Of course there are a few, but the vast majority are not homegrown.
Click to expand...

In Germany some of the more successful radical preachers are indigenous converts.
 
PeteEU said:
Relatively speaking no. Most radical imans are from abroad. Of course there are a few, but the vast majority are not homegrown.
Click to expand...

You have statistics regarding that assertion? And it's Imams, no idea why you insist on being wrong about it.
 
PeteEU said:
No, where do I suggest that? Just stating that, like with drugs or other "illegal" things, once banned it tends to move underground.

My personal opinion is that the Imans should only come from France (or the country in question.. same would apply for all other religions) and have grown up with western values and influence. They need approval by government (same with Christian and Jewish preachers btw.. cant discriminate)... by this I mean, they need to understand or be taught the basic values of western society (which they most likely already have since the requirement for all imans to be born in France).

The reasoning being that, almost all (note the almost) problematic preachers of any religion come from outside of European countries and it is especially a problem with Islam.

But dealing with the radical Imans wont stop radicalism... it might minimize it, or as I stated just drive it underground.

Think Romania and other places, where religion was banned. What did they do? They had underground churches where people went. So banning or closing things does not work always..
Click to expand...

Though, I would be more tolerant to immigrant Imams and preachers, you are absolutely right to point out that suppressing religion and even mere ideology is the absolutely wrong approach, if the society is not in all out war.
 
Auvergnat said:
Great, accuse us of trampling over freedom of religion because we shut down Mosques where imams call people to butcher us. You're so righteous!

If only we were really trampling over their freedom of religion, I would love it. Islam only deserves to be forgotten, mankind would be much freer, enlightened and peaceful without this retrograde and totalitarian ideology. I will vote for anyone proposing to close all Mosques.
Click to expand...

I'd be in favor of forgetting all religions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom