Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim pra

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

Kiwimac said:

You cannot convert to Islam by saying the Shahada without the INTENT to do so. Merely saying the words changes nothing without wanting to be a Muslim.

He aha te mea nui? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata!

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Are the adults compelling this speech able to read the students' minds? In this country, it would be just as bad if the students had no intent to convert to Islam. To require students to say things they did not believe would violate their freedom of speech. That was first established in Barnette, a 1943 decision in which the Supreme Court held that students in public schools could not be compelled to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

matchlight said:

Other cases of schoolchildren being required to recite the shahada have been discussed on these forums. I doubt that they were all just instances of false or misleading reporting.

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There have been other similar tabloid claims. I'm not aware of any that came close to being proven, especially not proven to be part of the grand Islamist conspiracy typically proposed. I am personally aware of a couple of similar accusations made against teachers that were definitively false (and luckily not picked up by any tabloid hacks).

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

HonestJoe said:

There have been other similar tabloid claims. I'm not aware of any that came close to being proven, especially not proven to be part of the grand Islamist conspiracy typically proposed. I am personally aware of a couple of similar accusations made against teachers that were definitively false (and luckily not picked up by any tabloid hacks).

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The grand Islamist conspiracy is not imaginary, as Andy McCarthy has documented in a fine book. Its title is "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America." A document admitted as evidence in federal court in the Holy Land Foundation case was a progress report to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt from one of the Brotherhood's front groups in the U.S. It made very clear that the group's goal was to subvert American culture and aggressively spread Islamist doctrines here.

The most glaring example of the role leftists have played in helping these people may be the actions of Lynne Stewart. She is a communist lawyer who represented Omar Abdel "The Blind Sheikh" Rahman, the Egyptian Islamic scholar who was convicted of leading the conspiracy to bomb the World Trade Center the first time, in 1993. The 1,200 lb. bomb used was meant to destroy both towers and kill thousands, as was to be done on September 11 more than eight years later, but fortunately it killed only six people. Stewart was convicted and sent to prison for relaying instructions for terrorist attacks from Rahman to jihadists overseas. She would receive these instructions during her visits with him in his cell, and then pass them on through coded phrases she inserted in her comments at press conferences she held after these visits.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

matchlight said:

To require schoolchildren to say a phrase which amounts to a conversion to Islam is revolting. I don't know German law, but in the U.S. the school district responsible would be violating the students' right to free speech. In quite a few other posts on these forums, I've discussed Supreme Court decisions involving both compelled speech and speech in public schools. Apparently the freedom of speech is not very important to you.

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Children don't have freedom of speech, especially not in school. That aside, if you don't intend to convert to Islam, then no amount of shahada repitition will make that happen. There's no magic force that determins your religion, regardless of if you've repeated words or had a pederast drip water on your head. If you're religious, it's because you chose to be, saying anything else is nonsense.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

MickeyW said:

Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim prayer

PUPILS at a primary school were forced to chant "Allahu Akhbar" and “there is no God but Allah", an appalled father has claimed.

The father of the pupil at the girl's primary school in German ski resort Garmisch-Partenkirchen discovered that his daughter had been forced to learn the Islamic prayer when he discovered a handout she had been given.

He claimed she had been "forced" by teachers to memorise the Islamic chants and forwarded the handout to Austrian news service unsertirol24.
Pupils at German primary school chant Muslim prayers as migrants outnumber natives | World | News | Daily Express



Michigan in a few years?

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Went looking for a credible source to this story. Found none, did find it was rampant on Islamic Hate sites, from Stormfront, Creeping Sharia and others.
Stories like this are what you find when one looks in the Internet sewer.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

spud_meister said:

Children don't have freedom of speech, especially not in school.

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The Supreme Court does not agree with your assertion--and it's the Court's view that counts. There have been several decisions upholding the freedom of speech of public school students. As the Court noted in Tinker v. Des Moines Indep't Comm. School Dist., students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."

That aside, if you don't intend to convert to Islam, then no amount of shahada repitition will make that happen. There's no magic force that determins your religion, regardless of if you've repeated words or had a pederast drip water on your head. If you're religious, it's because you chose to be, saying anything else is nonsense.

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I'm glad to see you show everyone here your low opinion of the freedom of speech. In a series of compelled-speech decisions, starting with Barnette in 1943, the Court has made clear that government action which compels a person to express view he does not hold normally violates the First Amendment. The freedom of speech includes the freedom not to speak. Whether a similar legal rule applies in Germany, I have no idea.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

matchlight said:

The Supreme Court does not agree with your assertion--and it's the Court's view that counts. There have been several decisions upholding the freedom of speech of public school students. As the Court noted in Tinker v. Des Moines Indep't Comm. School Dist., students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."

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Yet there's a myriad of cases where free speech has been denied. https://theconversation.com/what-are-the-limits-to-free-speech-in-schools-49545

I'm glad to see you show everyone here your low opinion of the freedom of speech. In a series of compelled-speech decisions, starting with Barnette in 1943, the Court has made clear that government action which compels a person to express view he does not hold normally violates the First Amendment. The freedom of speech includes the freedom not to speak. Whether a similar legal rule applies in Germany, I have no idea.

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I'm not debating freedom of speech here, I'm debating your nonsense assertion that the repetition of a phrase magically converts someone to a religion.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

spud_meister said:

Yet there's a myriad of cases where free speech has been denied. https://theconversation.com/what-are-the-limits-to-free-speech-in-schools-49545I'm not debating freedom of speech here, I'm debating your nonsense assertion that the repetition of a phrase magically converts someone to a religion.

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I am not concerned with whether mere repetition of the shahada in fact converted any student to Islam, but rather with the fact that simply requiring them to repeat that phrase in a public school, at least in this country, would probably violate their freedom of speech. The fact it was ever required is repellent to individual liberty in itself, whether it had the desired effect or not.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

matchlight said:

I am not concerned with whether mere repetition of the shahada in fact converted any student to Islam, but rather with the fact that simply requiring them to repeat that phrase in a public school, at least in this country, would probably violate their freedom of speech.

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I doubt it would, given it was assigned as school work. If children were allowed to refuse to do work on the basis that they didn't agree with it, classes such as civics, philosophy, history and english would be constantly interrupted. Studying something for educational reasons, be it the shahada, pledge of allegiance or Uncle Toms Cabin, is not the same as mandating mindless repetition, and children shouldn't be allowed to refuse assignments because they find it disagreable.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

matchlight said:

Are the adults compelling this speech able to read the students' minds? In this country, it would be just as bad if the students had no intent to convert to Islam. To require students to say things they did not believe would violate their freedom of speech. That was first established in Barnette, a 1943 decision in which the Supreme Court held that students in public schools could not be compelled to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

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Did you miss that this was in Germany? As for your other comment ; most of the kids would have simply been doing what they were expected to do.

He aha te mea nui? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata!

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

Mac77 said:

This goes beyond academic study.

It is forcing german children to practice the religion.

Which is something no self respecting liberal/progressive athiest educator would ever do or allow within their school if it were Christianity instead of islam.

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The OP constitutes absolute rubbish. Nuff said.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

Mac77 said:

So I will assume .......................~

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Sounds like a plan, seeing how you do not appear capable of doing more.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

HonestJoe said:

There have been other similar tabloid claims. I'm not aware of any that came close to being proven, especially not proven to be part of the grand Islamist conspiracy typically proposed. I am personally aware of a couple of similar accusations made against teachers that were definitively false (and luckily not picked up by any tabloid hacks).

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It is not about a grand-scale conspiracy, it is about the fact that proselytism is very strong in the Muslim world. In general but especially nowadays. And as a result many many Muslims spontaneously and individually attempt to convert people around them. And those people are naturally attracted to jobs in education and justice.

But if you want a sort of conspiracy (some people really do have an agenda you know?), then look at the Muslim Brotherhood: it is an organization with branches in more than 80 countries. In France their UOIF totals four Mosques out of ten for example, and they have a cohort of associations in USA. They do encourage Muslims to join political parties, justice, police, army and education. They do not have a naive "plan" like you could imagine after watching too many TV series, it is not about organizing a coup or something like that. They simply know that radical Muslims holding those jobs will manage to transform those civil societies and raise the weight of Islam. Their perspective extends beyond the end of this century, what about yours?

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

spud_meister said:

I doubt it would, given it was assigned as school work. If children were allowed to refuse to do work on the basis that they didn't agree with it, classes such as civics, philosophy, history and english would be constantly interrupted. Studying something for educational reasons, be it the shahada, pledge of allegiance or Uncle Toms Cabin, is not the same as mandating mindless repetition, and children shouldn't be allowed to refuse assignments because they find it disagreable.

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I doubt you know the relevant Supreme Court decisions in enough depth or detail to make an informed assessment of whether forcing public school students in the U.S. to recite the shahada against their will would be unconstitutional. I do know them in depth and detail--Barnette, Wooley, and Pruneyard Shopping Center as to compelled speech; and Tinker, Papish, Bethel, Hazelwood, and Morse as to the freedom of speech enjoyed by students in public schools. I am sure that what was claimed to have been done to the German students, if done here, would be an unconstitutional violation of the students' freedom of speech--not even a close call.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

Kiwimac said:

Did you miss that this was in Germany? As for your other comment ; most of the kids would have simply been doing what they were expected to do.

He aha te mea nui? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata!

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I think I made clear that I know nothing about German law, and that I was speaking instead about how this action, if it took place as claimed, would fare under U.S. law. Here, government may not require public school students to recite phrases that conflict with their beliefs. See West Virginia State Bd. of Educ. v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) (holding that public school district's policy of requiring students who were Jehovah's Witnesses to recite Pledge of Allegiance against their will unconstitutionally violated their freedom of speech).

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

matchlight said:

I doubt you know the relevant Supreme Court decisions in enough depth or detail to make an informed assessment of whether forcing public school students in the U.S. to recite the shahada against their will would be unconstitutional. I do know them in depth and detail--Barnette, Wooley, and Pruneyard Shopping Center as to compelled speech; and Tinker, Papish, Bethel, Hazelwood, and Morse as to the freedom of speech enjoyed by students in public schools. I am sure that what was claimed to have been done to the German students, if done here, would be an unconstitutional violation of the students' freedom of speech--not even a close call.

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So cite me a case that applies freedom of speech to assigned work. That says children can decide to not learn a text if they don't want to.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

spud_meister said:

So cite me a case that applies freedom of speech to assigned work. That says children can decide to not learn a text if they don't want to.

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Not interested in spending the time. I'll gladly have that discussion, though, with someone who knows enough about the subject to make it worth my effort.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

Yesterday I went to the townhall to get a new passport. They said they are sorry that I am German so I have to wait 6 month. If I would convert to Islam it would help a little bit...


*waiting to see how long it will take for my lies to become a serious proved news in this fine new media world*

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

german hick said:

Yesterday I went to the townhall to get a new passport. They said they are sorry that I am German so I have to wait 6 month. If I would convert to Islam it would help a little bit...


*waiting to see how long it will take for my lies to become a serious proved news in this fine new media world*

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That's nothing.

Ever since I greeted the girl at the cash-out in the local supermarket with "Allahu Akbar", I no longer have to wait in the queue.

Not just because people let me move to the front but because they now all run like hell when they see me coming. I don't have to pay anymore either, cuz the girl runs like hell as well.:mrgreen:

Widely exaggerated, however, are accounts of my being allowed to park free of charge in Marbella on account of having equipped my car with registration plates in Arabic.

Re: Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim

spud_meister said:

So cite me a case that applies freedom of speech to assigned work. That says children can decide to not learn a text if they don't want to.

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Boy that was a quick and total retreat on his part.