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Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President[W:13]

Re: Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President

Good to know you're living in fear of Putin's empty threats.

:confused:

From your perch in another dimension, could you explain how my words could lead you to that statement?

Perhaps the space time continuum warped something as it reached you.
 
Re: Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President

Μολὼν λαβέ;1066395174 said:
Incorrect answer, it was Hillary who pushed the reset button with Russia. How's that working out?

Hillary isn't the leader of Russia. Putin is. Were you unaware of this fact? The regression of Russia to the more oppressive tyranny of the old USSR is because of Putin, not Clinton. Let's try to keep asinine partisan nonsense out of the arguments.
 
Re: Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President

Really, how exactly he is "ruining" Russia, enlighten me....but don't forget to include a comparison to Russia's state under Putin's glorious and globally beloved predecessor.


BTW. Just noticed that you've managed to spam this entire board with your "Russia is evil" threads...wow, did you unlock some-kind of a new achievement this week or something.

Fallen.

He earned this.....

a_FbE77n5f.jpg
 
Re: Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President

I don't mind taking some heat speaking out for the hundreds of civilians (100+ children) that perished in Aleppo bombings last week.

As I'm sure you will continue to speak out on behalf of American cops that get murdered while on duty. At least two last week.

Don't know about you, but in my world none of the above innocents deserved to die so violently.
 
If anyone has any doubts as to how Putin is ruining the Russian Federation, look no further than their economy both in terms of the sanctions he has richly earned, his wasteful military adventurism and spending, the corruption he has enabled and even encouraged, and his petro-kleptocracy/overt economic reliance on fossil fuels and resources which he has failed to diversify away from.
 
If anyone has any doubts as to how Putin is ruining the Russian Federation, look no further than their economy both in terms of the sanctions he has richly earned,
FYI. Putin was in power long before 2014.

his wasteful military adventurism and spending
Which is in stark contrast to the complete collapse of the Russian military and military-industrial complex that Russia has experienced during the 90's, and I'm not even talking about the humiliation that Russia's military suffered during the first Chechen war.

the corruption he has enabled and even encouraged
Corruption is a long lasting malaise that Russia is suffering from with its roots going deep into the past two centuries, corruption and theft of national wealth that is associated with it wasn't invented by Putin or by his close circle of oligarchs and supporters. It raised its ugly head during the complete collapse of USSR and its economic and socioeconomic systems.

and his petro-kleptocracy/overt economic reliance on fossil fuels and resources which he has failed to diversify away from.
This is correct, and many critics of the current government's economic course including me wonder why the national wealth wasn't spent on development of an independent and powerful economy. There is a glimpse of hope that now when Russia is under sanctions, maybe these idiots will understand that they need to start investing and developing Russia's economy.


Fallen.
 
FYI. Putin was in power long before 2014...

@Fallenangel: Putin is directly responsible for the economic malaise Russia is facing now between sanctions he provoked, wasteful military spending, the excessive petrofocus, and his inability at best or unwillingness at worst to combat corruption. It is pretty well indisputable that the country is on the decline at the moment largely due to his decisions and actions or lack thereof; anyone can ride an oil boom in a petroeconomy, so I would be hesitate about according the man much credit for the years where Russia did well because it couldn't help but do so after a modicum of law and order were put in place.
 
Re: Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President

Simpleχity;1066407542 said:
I don't mind taking some heat speaking out for the hundreds of civilians (100+ children) that perished in Aleppo bombings last week.

As I'm sure you will continue to speak out on behalf of American cops that get murdered while on duty. At least two last week.

Don't know about you, but in my world none of the above innocents deserved to die so violently.

Dude, it was a joke because he said Achievement and I couldn't help but think of World of Warcraft........
 
@Fallenangel: Putin is directly responsible for the economic malaise Russia is facing now between sanctions he provoked, wasteful military spending, the excessive petrofocus, and his inability at best or unwillingness at worst to combat corruption.
Repeating your previous post doesn't make your argument any stronger, especially as I've addressed all of those points above.

It is pretty well indisputable that the country is on the decline at the moment largely due to his decisions and actions or lack thereof; anyone can ride an oil boom in a petroeconomy, so I would be hesitate about according the man much credit for the years where Russia did well because it couldn't help but do so after a modicum of law and order were put in place.

Putin and the power vertical that he built managed to stabilize the country, something that was non existent during the wild 90's where corruption, theft and crime were rampant beyond your wildest nightmares. I've already mentioned that creating an economical addiction to easy petro/gas dollars was a grave mistake, the money that was made during that relatively prosperous period should have went to economical development and not to fancy football clubs.

Putin, was brought to power by extremely influential oligarchs that thought at the time that they will be able to control him, some of them are now dead. However, contrary to the caricature view of a supposed "Tsarists" Russia, Putin isn't a Tsar and his power relies heavily on a close circle of oligarchs and "friends" that need him as much as he needs them and their loyalty to maintain relative stability in the country.


Fallen.
 
Repeating your previous post doesn't make your argument any stronger, especially as I've addressed all of those points above.

I don't think they were quite addressed; I mean, you didn't really challenge or obviate the fact that Russia is indeed in decline, and that Putin is largely directly responsible which was the fundamental quality of my argument.


Putin and the power vertical that he built managed to stabilize the country, something that was non existent during the wild 90's where corruption, theft and crime were rampant beyond your wildest nightmares. I've already mentioned that creating an economical addiction to easy petro/gas dollars was a grave mistake, the money that was made during that relatively prosperous period should have went to economical development and not to fancy football clubs.

Putin, was brought to power by extremely influential oligarchs that thought at the time that they will be able to control him, some of them are now dead. However, contrary to the caricature view of a supposed "Tsarists" Russia, Putin isn't a Tsar and his power relies heavily on a close circle of oligarchs and "friends" that need him as much as he needs them and their loyalty to maintain relative stability in the country.

I don't think Putin is a Tsar with absolute power divorced from the need to cut internal political deals, but I do think it was entirely within his power to both do more, and to make decisions that would have seen Russia in a much more prosperous position as opposed to burning through its currency reserves, suffering massive inflation, and seeing substantial (and ongoing) shrinkages in its economy and destructive devaluations of its currency. He has squandered many opportunities to make things better for his people, largely out of negligence or to consolidate his own power and well being.

Putin can be credited for bringing order to chaos, but he has largely rested on his laurels and engaged in kleptocracy since, leaning on carefully cultivated nationalism, propaganda and fascism to shore up the cracks.
 
I don't think they were quite addressed; I mean, you didn't really challenge or obviate the fact that Russia is indeed in decline, and that Putin is largely directly responsible which was the fundamental quality of my argument.
Actually, you've just stated random things and than claimed that Russia is in decline because of Putin. I've explained that some of those things predate Putin, while others as with the Russian military were a necessity, as at the time Russian army was in a state of complete collapse as the rest of the country.

I don't think Putin is a Tsar with absolute power divorced from the need to cut internal political deals, but I do think it was entirely within his power to both do more, and to make decisions that would have seen Russia in a much more prosperous position as opposed to burning through its currency reserves, suffering massive inflation, and seeing substantial shrinkages in its economy. He has squandered many opportunities to make things better for his people, largely out of negligence or to consolidate his own power and well being.

Putin can be credited for bringing order to chaos, but he has largely rested on his laurels and engaged in kleptocracy since, leaning on carefully cultivated nationalism, propaganda and fascism to shore up the cracks.

I largely agree with most of this, however, there is a limit imo to what he can do with oligarchs that managed to seize control of a large portion of Russia's wealth during the 90's - funnily any attempts to "redistribute" it will lead to more cries from the West and the riches will simply shift hands from one oligarch to another. Nationalism in its various forms wasn't a new construct that was introduced to Russia under Putin, similarly, the wheels of the propaganda machine didn't get smaller they have simply changed their direction. In the 90's Russian government coupled with oligarchs and western powers used various news outlets to promote their agenda and political interests, today things aren't much different. The government sponsored channels spout stuff about how good everything is, while the supposedly independent and liberal outlets talk about how bad everything is, most of them on both sides simply produce crude propaganda - Russia unfortunately has no long lasting tradition of actual journalism.

Fallen.
 
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Simpleχity;1066389931 said:
Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President


“He asked for too little,” Leonid Volkov, an anti-Putin politician wrote sarcastically on Facebook. “He should have asked for Alaska back, eternal youth, Elon Musk and a ticket to Disneyland.”


  • Roll back North Atlantic Treaty Organization infrastructure and reduce NATO personnel to September 2000 levels
  • Repeal the Magnitsky Act, which imposed sanctions on Russian officials involved in human rights violations
  • Repeal all U.S. sanctions against Russian individuals and businesses
  • Compensate Russians for damages incurred by U.S. sanctions and by Russia’s “forced counter-sanctions”
  • Present a “clear plan of irreversible destruction” of U.S. surplus plutonium
He can kiss our collective asses.
 
Simpleχity;1066389931 said:
Putin's Ultimatum to the Next U.S. President


“He asked for too little,” Leonid Volkov, an anti-Putin politician wrote sarcastically on Facebook. “He should have asked for Alaska back, eternal youth, Elon Musk and a ticket to Disneyland.”


  • Roll back North Atlantic Treaty Organization infrastructure and reduce NATO personnel to September 2000 levels
  • Repeal the Magnitsky Act, which imposed sanctions on Russian officials involved in human rights violations
  • Repeal all U.S. sanctions against Russian individuals and businesses
  • Compensate Russians for damages incurred by U.S. sanctions and by Russia’s “forced counter-sanctions”
  • Present a “clear plan of irreversible destruction” of U.S. surplus plutonium

VP can go to hell.
 
Actually, you've just stated random things and than claimed that Russia is in decline because of Putin. I've explained that some of those things predate Putin, while others as with the Russian military were a necessity, as at the time Russian army was in a state of complete collapse as the rest of the country.

All of those are things Putin has both upheld and directly contributed to, even if those problems were pre-existing, that is the common denominator; there is nothing random about them. They are all attributable to Putin's action or willful inaction. Limited investments in the Russian army may be necessary; wasteful military adventurism into Ukraine and Syria (both in terms of initial expense and the economic consequences) not so much, and for this Putin can be directly and unequivocally blamed.

I largely agree with most of this, however, there is a limit imo to what he can do with oligarchs that managed to seize control of a large portion of Russia's wealth during the 90's - funnily any attempts to "redistribute" it will lead to more cries from the West and the riches will simply shift hands from one oligarch to another. Nationalism in its various forms wasn't a new construct that was introduced to Russia under Putin, similarly, the wheels of the propaganda machine didn't get smaller they have simply changed their direction. In the 90's Russian government coupled with oligarchs and western powers used various news outlets to promote their agenda and political interests, today things aren't much different. The government sponsored channels spout stuff about how good everything is, while the supposedly independent and liberal outlets talk about how bad everything is, most of them on both sides simply produce crude propaganda - Russia unfortunately has no long lasting tradition of actual journalism.

I don't think the West collectively has much against a progressive and fair system of wealth distribution per the likes of say northern Europe; communism (which ultimately services the elite at the expense of the people) yes, European style mixed markets, no. Yes, corruption would impede reforms and needs to be tackled. That said, let's keep it real; I don't think Putin has come anywhere close to challenging the boundaries of what he is capable of so far as anti-corruption efforts go. If anything, he has embraced corruption and kleptocracy wholly. As propaganda goes, it has indeed objectively grown under Putin's direction, both in terms of international outfits (RT) and domestic, where the vast majority of all significant news media is either under the direct or indirect (via intimidation, politically motivated criminal investigations and such leading to self-censorship) control of the VGTRK and Putin Administration. There is not much of a countervailing force to the state, and again, Putin has presided over and ensured this, as well as the swell of nationalism that he has so transparently exploited to distract from the deteriorating state of Russia largely as a consequence of his decisions.
 
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Actually, you've just stated random things and than claimed that Russia is in decline because of Putin. I've explained that some of those things predate Putin, while others as with the Russian military were a necessity, as at the time Russian army was in a state of complete collapse as the rest of the country.



I largely agree with most of this, however, there is a limit imo to what he can do with oligarchs that managed to seize control of a large portion of Russia's wealth during the 90's - funnily any attempts to "redistribute" it will lead to more cries from the West and the riches will simply shift hands from one oligarch to another. Nationalism in its various forms wasn't a new construct that was introduced to Russia under Putin, similarly, the wheels of the propaganda machine didn't get smaller they have simply changed their direction. In the 90's Russian government coupled with oligarchs and western powers used various news outlets to promote their agenda and political interests, today things aren't much different. The government sponsored channels spout stuff about how good everything is, while the supposedly independent and liberal outlets talk about how bad everything is, most of them on both sides simply produce crude propaganda - Russia unfortunately has no long lasting tradition of actual journalism.

Fallen.

Putin is a tool of the oligarchs.
 
All of those are things Putin has both upheld and directly contributed to, even if those problems were pre-existing, that is the common denominator; there is nothing random about them. They are all attributable to Putin's action or willful inaction. Limited investments in the Russian army may be necessary; wasteful military adventurism into Ukraine and Syria (both in terms of initial expense and the economic consequences) not so much, and for this Putin can be directly and unequivocally blamed.

Actually, they are quite random as I can name numerous additional issues in modern Russia: it desperately needs reforms in its judicial system, a complete reform of its education and medical systems so on and on... yet, you keep concentrating on some issues which became quite prominent in the western media only recently - one can try to blame Putin for everything but imo the common denominator here isn't even Putin, but Russia as a country and its past. The recent events in Ukraine aren't much different in that sense, the "wasteful adventurism" that Russia exhibited in Crimea and Donbass is a direct attempt to preserve Russia's national interests in the region. One might say (as you do) that such actions brought economical hardships as a result of Western sanctions, yet, the alternative for Russia at the time was to completely lose its influence over a key region on its borders - this chain of events was quite expected, yet for some reason Western powers were really surprised that Russia didn't simply back off. BTW I don't really know the actual reasons/goals for Russia's intervention in Syria so it is somewhat hard for me to see the purpose for that operation.

I don't think the West collectively has much against a progressive and fair system of wealth distribution per the likes of say northern Europe; communism (which ultimately services the elite at the expense of the people) yes, European style mixed markets, no. Yes, corruption would impede reforms and needs to be tackled. That said, let's keep it real; I don't think Putin has come anywhere close to challenging the boundaries of what he is capable of so far as anti-corruption efforts go. If anything, he has embraced corruption and kleptocracy wholly.

It's hard to fight corruption, when it has been an integral part of Russia for decades and decades. In Russia's modern history there were numerous campaigns against corruption, yet, it is quite useless as the Russian mentality needs to be reformed first - currently students know that they can get A+ in exams simply for paying the professor, patients know that in order to get something in a hospital they should slip few bills into the doctors robe...so on and on, the system I've described have existed for decades in different forms and there is very little that Putin can do about it imo.

As propaganda goes, it has indeed objectively grown under Putin's direction, both in terms of international outfits (RT) and domestic, where the vast majority of all significant news media is either under the direct or indirect (via intimidation, politically motivated criminal investigations and such leading to self-censorship) control of the VGTRK and Putin Administration. There is not much of a countervailing force to the state, and again, Putin has presided over and ensured this, as well as the swell of nationalism that he has so transparently exploited to distract from the deteriorating state of Russia largely as a consequence of his decisions.

It seems that you haven't read what I've written in my previous post regarding the topic. The domestic propaganda never really stopped it just changed shape, previously it was produced by oligarchs that wanted control over Russian politics (with murder of journalists, self-censorship, etc), now it is produced by the state. The polarity changed indeed though, from something like "US is our friend, Yeltsin will save us!" to something like "US is our enemy, Putin is a strong leader!". With regard to international propaganda, RT has been working for over a decade now and while I don't watch it I can understand its purpose and place - as similar Western projects are directed at Russia and only got more prominent in the recent decade.

Lastly, in order to grow some kind of a counterweight to the state the population itself needs to want it, yet the shock that the Russian population experienced during the late 80's & 90's still generates a negative reaction to anything that has the words "liberal" or "democracy" in its name. Maybe, in years from now Russia will become more prosperous and liberal, but in order for that to happen a lot of things need to change in the Russian society, and it doesn't really matter whether it will be Putin or someone else in charge as these changes need to be more fundamental than any president can force.

Fallen.
 
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Actually, they are quite random as I can name numerous additional issues in modern Russia...

...It's hard to fight corruption, when it has been an integral part of Russia for decades and decades. In Russia's modern history there were numerous campaigns against corruption, yet, it is quite useless as the Russian mentality needs to be reformed first - currently students know that they can get A+ in exams simply for paying the professor, patients know that in order to get something in a hospital they should slip few bills into the doctors robe...so on and on, the system I've described have existed for decades in different forms and there is very little that Putin can do about it imo.

How many problems do you want me to focus on?

I am citing those that are most prominent, especially at the international level. I have no doubt that there are cultural issues that contribute to Russia's problems, but again a great deal of power and therefore responsibility is invested with Putin; if anyone has the ability to enact reforms and to improve the culture and change the direction of his country for the better, it is him, and thus far his choices have resulted in a worsening of Russia's situation through capitulation to or embracing of adverse cultural elements, or the creation of new problems entirely of his own making (Crimea/Donbass/Syria). You may argue that he had legitimate reasons to pursue the former two for the sake of influence and Russian national interests, but between the direct cost of such policy, and the indirect cost of great economic turmoil, this does not, at least thus far, appear to be the case.

It seems that you haven't read what I've written in my previous post regarding the topic. The domestic propaganda never really stopped it just changed shape, previously it was produced by oligarchs that wanted control over Russian politics (with murder of journalists, self-censorship, etc), now it is produced by the state. The polarity changed indeed though, from something like "US is our friend, Yeltsin will save us!" to something like "US is our enemy, Putin is a strong leader!". With regard to international propaganda, RT has been working for over a decade now and while I don't watch it I can understand its purpose and place - as similar Western projects are directed at Russia and only got more prominent in the recent decade.

Lastly, in order to grow some kind of a counterweight to the state the population itself needs to want it, yet the shock that the Russian population experienced during the late 80's & 90's still generates a negative reaction to anything that has the words "liberal" or "democracy" in its name. Maybe, in years from now Russia will become more prosperous and liberal, but in order for that to happen a lot of things need to change in the Russian society, and it doesn't really matter whether it will be Putin or someone else in charge as these changes need to be more fundamental than any president can force.

I have read your points regarding propaganda. My point is again, that Putin upheld, contributed to and worsened an already bad situation, investing significantly in propaganda activities, and objectively expanding campaigns of intimidation and state acquisition and control of the media.

Finally, as before, while I agree that there are deep seated cultural elements that are antithetical to a liberal and democratic Russian society, the truth is that Putin, outside of providing the foundation for Russia's petroeconomy to prosper during the boom times, has in general made Russia's situation worse, largely conceding to that cultural inertia and moving towards more authoritarianism, kleptocracy and corruption and less towards prosperity and openness. His main sin is that he actively and unapologetically pursued such regressive policies, largely for the sake of his own benefit, and those oligarchs closest to him.
 
How many problems do you want me to focus on?

I am citing those that are most prominent, especially at the international level. I have no doubt that there are cultural issues that contribute to Russia's problems, but again a great deal of power and therefore responsibility is invested with Putin; if anyone has the ability to enact reforms and to improve the culture and change the direction of his country for the better, it is him, and thus far his choices have resulted in a worsening of Russia's situation through capitulation to or embracing of adverse cultural elements, or the creation of new problems entirely of his own making (Crimea/Donbass/Syria). You may argue that he had legitimate reasons to pursue the former two for the sake of influence and Russian national interests, but between the direct cost of such policy, and the indirect cost of great economic turmoil, this does not, at least thus far, appear to be the case.

Following these recent "high-profile" international related issues that you have mentioned you seem to rush to the conclusion that "Putin is ruining Russia". I'm saying that first of all Russia's problems are more numerous and most of them have much deeper roots and they are not necessary related to Putin. Secondly, quite a few of the major problems that Russia has encountered during its evolution in the 90's were actually solved or addressed by Putin in different forms (attempts to conduct educational, social, military etc.. changes), which brought relative prosperity and stability to modern Russia. Hence, beyond the effect of immediate economic hardships as a result of the recent events, Putin didn't ruin Russia and he is not ruining it now either imo. One might argue that Putin should have done or acted differently in different situations, but that is quite different from claiming that "Putin is ruining Russia".

I have read your points regarding propaganda. My point is again, that Putin upheld, contributed to and worsened an already bad situation, investing significantly in propaganda activities, and objectively expanding campaigns of intimidation and state acquisition and control of the media.

Finally, as before, while I agree that there are deep seated cultural elements that are antithetical to a liberal and democratic Russian society, the truth is that Putin, outside of providing the foundation for Russia's petroeconomy to prosper during the boom times, has in general made Russia's situation worse, largely conceding to that cultural inertia and moving towards more authoritarianism, kleptocracy and corruption and less towards prosperity and openness. His main sin is that he actively and unapologetically pursued such regressive policies, largely for the sake of his own benefit, and those oligarchs closest to him.

There is a topic here that you continue to underplay over and over, that Putin simply got lucky with "petro-economy", yet this economic "boom" was actually enabled by the government, which goes in complete contrast to anything that was done before. The improper usage of a large portion of these funds and the lack of a substantial investment in the development of the national industry and economy was a gross mistake. However, one can't simply dismiss nether the actual economic foundation that was established during that period nor the economic growth as some lucky occurrence. You also keep repeating that under Putin the situation got worse on different issues, yet for some reason you constantly fail to specify "worse than what/when" - an actual comparison of the state of modern Russia to its form in the late 80's - 90's would not be in favor of your argument imo.

Fallen.
 
Following these recent "high-profile" international related issues that you have mentioned you seem to rush to the conclusion that "Putin is ruining Russia". I'm saying that first of all Russia's problems are more numerous and most of them have much deeper roots and they are not necessary related to Putin. Secondly, quite a few of the major problems that Russia has encountered during its evolution in the 90's were actually solved or addressed by Putin in different forms (attempts to conduct educational, social, military etc.. changes), which brought relative prosperity and stability to modern Russia. Hence, beyond the effect of immediate economic hardships as a result of the recent events, Putin didn't ruin Russia and he is not ruining it now either imo. One might argue that Putin should have done or acted differently in different situations, but that is quite different from claiming that "Putin is ruining Russia".

There is a topic here that you continue to underplay over and over, that Putin simply got lucky with "petro-economy", yet this economic "boom" was actually enabled by the government, which goes in complete contrast to anything that was done before. The improper usage of a large portion of these funds and the lack of a substantial investment in the development of the national industry and economy was a gross mistake. However, one can't simply dismiss nether the actual economic foundation that was established during that period nor the economic growth as some lucky occurrence. You also keep repeating that under Putin the situation got worse on different issues, yet for some reason you constantly fail to specify "worse than what/when" - an actual comparison of the state of modern Russia to its form in the late 80's - 90's would not be in favor of your argument imo.

Again, I don't deny that many of the problems facing Russia have roots elsewhere than Putin, nor do I deny that he is responsible for setting up the foundations that enabled Russia to take advantage of the commodities boom in the 2000s. What I am arguing is that Putin gets too much credit for what was essentially as much the whimsy of international commodities markets as his own action, and that he has steadily worsened existing issues and created new ones since the time Russia regained stability and started making economic progress. If you want a basis of comparison, look no further than after the petro-economy started taking off; steadily since then, Putin has played up distractionary nationalism, expanded state propaganda and media control, made the politics of Russia less democratic, considerably worsened foreign relations and wasted money on military adventurism while failing to anticipate and prepare for a shift in the commodities market, and, as a consequence of said adventurism, brought economic ruin to his country. Once upon a time Putin may have been a good thing for Russia, but that time has long since passed.
 
Again, I don't deny that many of the problems facing Russia have roots elsewhere than Putin, nor do I deny that he is responsible for setting up the foundations that enabled Russia to take advantage of the commodities boom in the 2000s. What I am arguing is that Putin gets too much credit for what was essentially as much the whimsy of international commodities markets as his own action, and that he has steadily worsened existing issues and created new ones since the time Russia regained stability and started making economic progress.

I understand your argument, unfortunately so far it distills to something like: "the good things that happened under Putin are not his achievement, the bad things that happened under Putin are completely his fault". It is a silly argument that you use time after time completely ignoring what actually happened, while simply repeating the points I've already addressed.

Again look below;
If you want a basis of comparison, look no further than after the petro-economy started taking off;
Just above you managed to claim that; halting the collapse of the country, stability, economic prosperity the cultural, social/economic recovery that Russia has known from ~2000's to ~ 2010's had very little to do with Putin. Yet, now you go on to claim that the following issues are strictly Putin's "fault", while ignoring any other factors.

steadily since then, Putin has played up distractionary nationalism,
You keep stating it without even realizing that Putin managed to control the nationalist sentiments in Russia and to avoid the power-creep of far more powerful national forces on the political arena.

expanded state propaganda and media control,
Propaganda and media control existed in 90's and 00's in similar scale, the only thing you may actually attribute to Putin is that the nature and the polarity of the propaganda has shifted. You can also attribute to Putin the reemergence of internationally intended propaganda.

made the politics of Russia less democratic,
It was never democratic in the sense you want it to be, not in the 90's not in 00's.

considerably worsened foreign relations and wasted money on military adventurism while failing to anticipate and prepare for a shift in the commodities market, and, as a consequence of said adventurism, brought economic ruin to his country.
Yet somehow you completely ignore the reasons for the worsening of these relations and this supposed "waste" of money on military development and campaigns.

Once upon a time Putin may have been a good thing for Russia, but that time has long since passed.

The problem with your argument here is that you diminish any actual "benefits" that Russia has experienced under Putin's rule and his role in these events, while drastically exaggerating the "fault" of Putin in other issues that have become especially prominent in the past 2-3 years. It is a common theme that I've seen a lot and not only on the pages of DP - people paint themselves some rosy democratic picture of Russia in the 90's-00's and then start to argue that compared to that "rosy Russia", the current Russia is in "ruins" - the problem with this argument that this rosy construct never actually existed.

Fallen.
 
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I'm tired of going in circles on this, so unless this goes somewhere meaningful, I'll consider this my last response.

I have not/never said that Putin has complete and absolute culpability for the bad things happening in Russia; I said that his leadership and decisions have had adverse consequences and have either created new issues or contributed to existing ones that predate him. This is indisputably true.

Further, I do credit Putin with helping Russia ascend out of the chaos of the 90s, but I also recognize the huge role circumstance and the commodities markets played in that; without the spiking price of oil, there would have been no or at the very least a much slower economic recovery in Russia. This is also indisputably true.

I assert that shortly after this economic recovery occurred Putin aggressively expanded the propaganda machine (other than internationalizing ala RT; look at the steadily increasing amounts of money he sunk into propaganda initiatives, and media acquisitions), and steadily worsened the then already tenuous state of democracy (I'm not arguing that Russia ever had halcyon days of full and fair democracy) via an attempt to consolidate his power.

I think you raise an interesting point about the idea of Putin getting out ahead of nationalist sentiment to head off worse actors, to me, at least on the surface, this seems to be a form of apologism for the obvious utility of that sentiment in serving as a smoke screen for failings and excesses of the state as it virtually always does in any kind of autocracy, particularly given the utter domination Putin and his party have enjoyed politically; who would possibly threaten him? Can you provide specifics?

In terms of military spending/adventurism I acknowledge that a level of military spending is justified and there are concrete motives for engaging in Ukraine and Syria. However, my point is that the benefits of these wars are far surpassed by the cost of pursuing them both direct and indirect, which I feel the impacts on Russia's economy have clearly borne out.

To conclude, I don't think that Russia was ever a truly vibrant and equitable democracy; I've never held that opinion, nor an idea of any kind of 'rosy Russia'. I do however think it was once _better_ than it is once upon a time, and that shortly after Putin improved Russia's prospects, which he indeed gets partial credit for, he proceeded to essentially loot the country for his own gain, like a man returning to harvest.
 
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