• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should police allow officers to wear burka on patrol

Should police allow officers to wear burka on patrol?

  • Total voters
    25
Infinite Chaos said:
_89902367_hijab.jpg



There have been observant muslim female police officers for over 10 years.
Click to expand...

This story doesn't say that those women are police officers, or that observant Muslim women officers exist. It says that the Metropolitan Police approved the hijab 10 years ago.

It also says, "Police Scotland figures showed that there were 127 applications from black, Asian and ethnic minority candidates in 2015-16. That was just 2.6% of the total number applying to work for the force.
In order to reflect the 4% figure across Scottish society, the force said it would need to recruit an additional 650 ethnic minority candidates."

Try again IC.
Police Scotland hijab plan for Muslim officers - BBC News
 
Infinite Chaos said:
you need to be able to see the face of the officer dealing with you and to see their facial signals if you are under arrest or any other conversation. I also think I.D purposes are essential - if the police officer has committed an error or carried out their duties wrongly, you need to be able to identify them.
Click to expand...

Pretty much my reason for being against it as well. I would be OK with a hijab.
 
In an odd way, I'm mostly against it because it creates a gateway for non-Muslim police to use face coverings. It's illegal in Canada for protestors to cover their faces as of 2 years ago, but it's not illegal for the Federal police to conceal themselves.

All police should be visibly identifiable for reasons of freedom of liberty of the people.
 
Given that the French head of intelligence (Cavlar) and the former head of the French socialist party (Boutih, main government party) both think there is a risk of large-scale ethnic conflicts, is it wise to hire Muslims in the police and the army?

Patrick Cavlar: "you will have a clash between the ultra-right and the Muslim world - not the islamists but the very Muslim World."

Malek Boutih: "the magnitude of the phenomenon, with radicalization of students, especially young ladies, show that we could shift to a mass phenomenon." He warns about a "Radical Generation".
 
Andalublue said:
I'm wondering whether they actually meant the burka; that seems ludicrous to me. How fast could burka-clad police officer run? Isn't that important?

I couldn't see a problem with the hijab, perhaps not even the chadour, but the niqab and burka would be totally impractical attire for a police office, IMHO.
Click to expand...

As a self proclaimed pedant, you need to be careful with spelling!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador

"also known variously in English as chadah, chad(d)ar, chader, chud(d)ah, chadur, shador "

I don't see 'Chadour".

The garment, totally impractical. If the officer were apprehending an offender, and the situation escalated into a physical struggle, this garment (the Chador) would put the officer at a distinct disadvantage.
 
gunner said:
As a self proclaimed pedant, you need to be careful with spelling!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador

"also known variously in English as chadah, chad(d)ar, chader, chud(d)ah, chadur, shador "

I don't see 'Chadour".
Click to expand...
It's a word from a language written in a non-Roman script. There are lots of ways of spelling it. Google 'chadour' and you'll find it, Mr Pedant.

The garment, totally impractical. If the officer were apprehending an offender, and the situation escalated into a physical struggle, this garment (the Chador) would put the officer at a distinct disadvantage.
Click to expand...
Arguable, but you may be right.
 
Auvergnat said:
Given that the French head of intelligence (Cavlar) and the former head of the French socialist party (Boutih, main government party) both think there is a risk of large-scale ethnic conflicts, is it wise to hire Muslims in the police and the army?

Patrick Cavlar: "you will have a clash between the ultra-right and the Muslim world - not the islamists but the very Muslim World."

Malek Boutih: "the magnitude of the phenomenon, with radicalization of students, especially young ladies, show that we could shift to a mass phenomenon." He warns about a "Radical Generation".
Click to expand...

So, should anyone with far-right sympathies, NF supporters for example, also be banned from joining the police?
 
Andalublue said:
So, should anyone with far-right sympathies, NF supporters for example, also be banned from joining the police?
Click to expand...
Why should they? I recommend to ban Muslims not because being in the police would help them start an ethnic conflict, but because in such a conflict where Muslims and non-Muslims would kill each other, they would be on the Muslim side.

Besides I fail to see the problem with the FN, they are a moderate party.
 
Auvergnat said:
Why should they? I recommend to ban Muslims not because being in the police would help them start an ethnic conflict, but because in such a conflict where Muslims and non-Muslims would kill each other, they would be on the Muslim side.
Click to expand...
I see, you would like the police to be 100% on the side of the far-right, anti-Muslims. Got it.

Besides I fail to see the problem with the FN, they are a moderate party.
Click to expand...
Sure they are. :roll:
 
Andalublue said:
I see, you would like the police to be 100% on the side of the far-right, anti-Muslims. Got it.
Click to expand...
I do not want them to be anti-Muslims. I just want them to not be Muslims. I simply want to be sure that in the case of an ethnic conflict they will be on my side rather than busy killing my family. Stop distorting my statements.

Sure they are. :roll:
Click to expand...
Do you have an evidence for that? Could you tell me what is extreme in their program?

Preferably a recent statement, not one from times where the US Republican Party was still defending racial segregation and most right-wing European leaders were still overtly racist.
 
Andalublue said:
It's a word from a language written in a non-Roman script. There are lots of ways of spelling it. Google 'chadour' and you'll find it, Mr Pedant
Click to expand...
.

No, if you do in-fact Google "Chadour" the message displayed is: did you mean Chador Of course, the search engine understands your error, and will display results for 'Chador'. Ordinarily not a big issue, but as I suggested previously I know you're a stickler for detail!

Arguable, but you may be right.
Click to expand...

Arguably? I would say it certainly would hinder the officer in performing her duties. AT the end of the day, the ability to perform one's duty is paramount for the safety of all concerned.

These kinds of instances do push the boundaries and test our tolerance, for sure.

Another example: Sikh soldier first guardsman to parade outside Buckingham palace wearing turban - Telegraph


"Jatenderpal Singh Bhullar, 25, is the first guardsman in 180 years of tradition to choose to wear his turban on the famous forecourt.


The Scots Guardsman previously said being the first Sikh to mount guard in a turban would be the "best thing in his life".


The 25-year-old said: "Conducting public duties while being a practising Sikh and wearing my turban is a great honour for me.


"I am very proud to be a member of the Household Division and to be the first Sikh Guardsman to mount guard in a turban will be the best thing in my life, especially as a member of the Scots Guards.


"The regiment is full of history, as is my religion."

A brave decision by the Army, but ultimately (or arguably in this instance) the correct one.
Click to expand...
 
gunner said:
These kinds of instances do push the boundaries and test our tolerance, for sure.

Another example: Sikh soldier first guardsman to parade outside Buckingham palace wearing turban - Telegraph


"Jatenderpal Singh Bhullar, 25, is the first guardsman in 180 years of tradition to choose to wear his turban on the famous forecourt.


The Scots Guardsman previously said being the first Sikh to mount guard in a turban would be the "best thing in his life".


The 25-year-old said: "Conducting public duties while being a practising Sikh and wearing my turban is a great honour for me.


"I am very proud to be a member of the Household Division and to be the first Sikh Guardsman to mount guard in a turban will be the best thing in my life, especially as a member of the Scots Guards.


"The regiment is full of history, as is my religion."

A brave decision by the Army, but ultimately (or arguably in this instance) the correct one.
Click to expand...

Not brave, I'd argue. Those silly bearskins are purely decorative, they're certainly not operationally functional. I wonder, and you'd probably know this, in combat situations surely serving Sikh soldiers wear standard helmets, don't they?
 
Andalublue said:
Not brave, I'd argue. Those silly bearskins are purely decorative, they're certainly not operationally functional. I wonder, and you'd probably know this, in combat situations surely serving Sikh soldiers wear standard helmets, don't they?
Click to expand...

Let me tell you, THERE is nothing silly in a Bearskin! (most are now fake) Guards traditions are part of who they are. You would struggle with the concept, I'm sure.

I've got to be honest, I'm not sure now (they didn't during WW2 etc.)
 
gunner said:
Let me tell you, THERE is nothing silly in a Bearskin! (most are now fake) Guards traditions are part of who they are. You would struggle with the concept, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

Oh, I get it, I just find it anachronistic.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Let's get some facts out there before our usual suspects go crazy -

1) Muslim Association are against the idea.
2) This is just an idea at the moment.
3) Only one police force is considering this idea - it's not the whole UK.
4) Sikhs in the UK police forces are allowed to wear turbans on patrol (but not on "armed officer" duty)

My position on burkas on patrol is an absolute no: you need to be able to see the face of the officer dealing with you and to see their facial signals if you are under arrest or any other conversation. I also think I.D purposes are essential - if the police officer has committed an error or carried out their duties wrongly, you need to be able to identify them.
Click to expand...

They already do - they're called undercover narcs.
 
Andalublue said:
I'm wondering whether they actually meant the burka; that seems ludicrous to me. How fast could burka-clad police officer run?
Click to expand...

Yes, the chief inspector who's pushing this idea has stated the burka as other headwear has been approved for over 10 years now. Answering the other comments, obviously special teams and anti terrorist groups tend to wear facemasks for raids and such like but the main post addresses ordinary officers on duty and here, a burka is a silly idea.

truthatallcost said:
~ Try again IC
Click to expand...

The numbers are low but female officers do exist. The hijab has been approved since 2001 and the muslim police officer's federation has recorded and supports some 2000 practicing muslim officers. A small number are female but they exist.

Are you looking for names and addresses? Not the kind of thing any police officer wants to hand out freely on the web...

Auvergnat said:
~ is it wise to hire Muslims in the police and the army?
Click to expand...

Yup, several muslim regiments fought for the UK in WW1 and 2. Apparently there was even an SS mountain unit fighting for the Nazis in WW2.

More importantly, what I think is there are not enough muslims joining the UK forces. More muslims have gone to fight for ISIS than joined the UK military and that needs addressing.

Andalublue said:
It's a word from a language written in a non-Roman script. There are lots of ways of spelling it. Google 'chadour' and you'll find it, Mr Pedant.

Arguable, but you may be right.
Click to expand...

That's a bit graceless Andy?
 
The burka isn't just headwear, it's a full robe. I can't imagine taking someone to the floor after a chase, wearing one.
 
Wait...I thought these women were tightly controlled. Why would the man controlling her allow her to be a police officer?
 
Serenity said:
The Hijab, no problem.

Burka, (full face vale) - no, same page as IC.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

The minute I heard this on the news my gut reaction was, 'No' and, my considerations of it since conclude, 'No'.
 
Chagos said:
That having been said (and I totally agree with it), now for some lighter entertainment

View attachment 67207107

certainly not female and probably not Muslim (at lest not by majority) and not in UK either. I also doubt that it's part of somebody's "don't aggravate the public with ugly mugs" program :mrgreen:

Nevertheless it does seem to indicate that communication with the public need, at certain times, be done with something of greater stoutness than the face.

Like with truncheons.:2razz:
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this either; When I interact with the Police I want to see the face and the number.
 
Patrickt said:
Police officers also need to at least give the appearance of being nonpartisan. We had an incident where a police officer was supposed to be protecting workers arriving at work from the union thugs but as a union member himself the officer was exchanging high-fives with the thugs and loudly calling them "Brother."

I would not do to send an officer on a call to a mosque wearing a large cross around his neck and it would not do to have a woman on patrol wearing her religion over her face.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Police in the UK are well known for being militantly left wing.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Yes, the chief inspector who's pushing this idea has stated the burka as other headwear has been approved for over 10 years now. Answering the other comments, obviously special teams and anti terrorist groups tend to wear facemasks for raids and such like but the main post addresses ordinary officers on duty and here, a burka is a silly idea.
Click to expand...
Yes, I saw that. Given that a burka isn't headwear it made me wonder if he was referring to other garments, like the hijab.

That's a bit graceless Andy?
Click to expand...
What is?
 
Serenity said:
The Hijab, no problem. Burka, (full face vale) - no, same page as IC.
Click to expand...

Right you are!

Which is the manner in which the question should have been put in the first place.

And, of course, who would not be shocked to see a police-officer in a veil!

Now, lemme see - how about if a RC-nun wanted to be a policewoman? Should the British Police allow her to wear her nuns-habit?

(Just when does the Summer Silliness end? December ... ?;^)
______________
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom