France : "potential terrorists are many many"

Auvergnat · Sep 7, 2016

Yvan Blot was until recently a high executive in the French interior ministry, tasked with the control, study and evaluation of the ministry's activities. He has also seated in the European parliament for ten years, and the French one for two years, and cycled between right and far-right parties (RPR, FN, UMP).

Freshly retired, he decided to publish a book about terrorism in France and gave an interview about it. Some parts are very interesting.

Is jihad consubstantial to Islam?
- "Any ideology can become murderous. (...) While Islam contains seeds of violence that are easily found within its scriptures, this is the revolutionary transform that occurred in the 50's that explains current terrorism."

Large support for terrorism among immigrants:
- "Potential terrorists are many many {très nombreux}. And they enjoy support, passive or active, from a large part {large partie} of immigrants. Here is an example: the police orders polls to specialized institutes, to take the pulse. Results are not public, but they are sometimes horrifying {épouvantable}. For example, a large number of Muslims in France do approve islamic terrorism. It does not mean they will become terrorists themselves, but it means there exists a vast complicity, passive or active."

About the government's inaction:
- "I think there exists a fear from the EUCJ, which already sentenced France. We can also emphasize some international treaties, but also the fear of looking racist. When the scandal of islamists hired in a Belgium nuclear power was revealed, I was told the reason: the fear of fingers pointed at them for discrimination drove recruiters' decision to hire them. And there is a general state of mind that terrifies our politics. To end immigration streams, we would have to sometimes use force; our representatives are very far from considering this."

How many people have been sentenced for terrorism in France for projects that never succeeded?
- "Many thousands... {plusieurs milliers}"

joG · Sep 7, 2016

Auvergnat said:
Yvan Blot was until recently a high executive in the French interior ministry, tasked with the control, study and evaluation of the ministry's activities. He has also seated in the European parliament for ten years, and the French one for two years, and cycled between right and far-right parties (RPR, FN, UMP).

Freshly retired, he decided to publish a book about terrorism in France and gave an interview about it. Some parts are very interesting.

Is jihad consubstantial to Islam?
- "Any ideology can become murderous. (...) While Islam contains seeds of violence that are easily found within its scriptures, this is the revolutionary transform that occurred in the 50's that explains current terrorism."

Large support for terrorism among immigrants:
- "Potential terrorists are many many {très nombreux}. And they enjoy support, passive or active, from a large part {large partie} of immigrants. Here is an example: the police orders polls to specialized institutes, to take the pulse. Results are not public, but they are sometimes horrifying {épouvantable}. For example, a large number of Muslims in France do approve islamic terrorism. It does not mean they will become terrorists themselves, but it means there exists a vast complicity, passive or active."

About the government's inaction:
- "I think there exists a fear from the EUCJ, which already sentenced France. We can also emphasize some international treaties, but also the fear of looking racist. When the scandal of islamists hired in a Belgium nuclear power was revealed, I was told the reason: the fear of fingers pointed at them for discrimination drove recruiters' decision to hire them. And there is a general state of mind that terrifies our politics. To end immigration streams, we would have to sometimes use force; our representatives are very far from considering this."

How many people have been sentenced for terrorism in France for projects that never succeeded?
- "Many thousands... {plusieurs milliers}"

Sentenced for projects never succeeded? Could you be more specific?

Auvergnat · Sep 7, 2016

joG said:
Sentenced for projects never succeeded? Could you be more specific?

Terrorist projects that failed because their members were arrested before they happened.

He mentions that those projects are usually not publicized. They are not secret, anyone can ask the paper trail of the audience, but medias are not warned of them, asked to not mention a word if they hear of them, politics do not talk about them, and audiences are under closed door.

joG · Sep 7, 2016

Auvergnat said:
Terrorist projects that failed because their members were arrested before they happened.

He mentions that those projects are usually not publicized. They are not secret, anyone can ask the paper trail of the audience, but medias are not warned of them, asked to not mention a word if they hear of them, politics do not talk about them, and audiences are under closed door.

It sounds like a minority report.

Chagos · Sep 7, 2016

How is the handling on somebody having gone to join IS and having returned without so far being seen as engaging in anything suspicious?

Auvergnat · Sep 7, 2016

Chagos said:
How is the handling on somebody having gone to join IS and having returned without so far being seen as engaging in anything suspicious?

They are left free, we do not jail people on the basis that they went somewhere or may do something. We merely put them under surveillance.

Of course, if the police has anything against them, even a mere complicity in some drug or terrorism case, or identity forgery, you can be sure they will get the maximum penalty. This is frequent enough but not the norm. Besides some of them are juveniles.

We technically have a law about cooperation with an enemy, but going to Syria does not prove you cooperated with ISIS, so it is rarely of use.

Chagos · Sep 7, 2016

Auvergnat said:
They are left free, we do not jail people on the basis that they went somewhere or may do something. We merely put them under surveillance.

Of course, if the police has anything against them, even a mere complicity in some drug or terrorism case, or identity forgery, you can be sure they will get the maximum penalty. This is frequent enough but not the norm. Besides some of them are juveniles.

We technically have a law about cooperation with an enemy, but going to Syria does not prove you cooperated with ISIS, so it is rarely of use.

Thanks for clearing that for me.

My question arose from there currently being a guy in court in Germany who did (by all counts) what I outlined. But then there is a law in Germany (dating back to Bader Meinhof and the subsequent Red Army Fraction) that makes membership in a terrorist organization criminal.

One will have to see what comes of this one.

Infinite Chaos · Sep 7, 2016

Auvergnat said:
~ going to Syria does not prove you cooperated with ISIS ~

Quite a few Brits have gone to fight ISIS. Dean Carl Evans was recently killed fighting alongside Kurds, others have gone and come back to raise more funds for the fight.

I'd like more of those who want to go to be with ISIS to be allowed to go, lose their citizenship when they have gone and never be allowed back.

Chagos · Sep 7, 2016

Infinite Chaos said:
Quite a few Brits have gone to fight ISIS. Dean Carl Evans was recently killed fighting alongside Kurds, others have gone and come back to raise more funds for the fight.

I'd like more of those who want to go to be with ISIS to be allowed to go, lose their citizenship when they have gone and never be allowed back.

Many from Germany off to fight IS as well. However those are usually of Kurdish roots. Yazidis as well (sizeable groups in Germany).

German authorities DO make a distinction when it comes to why somebody has gone to Syria.

Nevertheless, in the case of IS sympathizers, mere suspicion does not suffice. Case needs to be made of having "fought for"

Infinite Chaos · Sep 7, 2016

Chagos said:
~ in the case of IS sympathizers, mere suspicion does not suffice. Case needs to be made of having "fought for"

Hard to get evidence from a battlefield. Having said that, there are some kurds who have joined IS (remembering the pics of the little British white boy about to shoot kurd fighters in the back of the head while alongside a young kurd IS trainee.)

My view is that those who profess support and head off or who leave messages behind or even state a desire to go and join IS should be allowed to leave but not to return.