Election in the German state of Mecklenburg-West Pomerania [W:10]

Today (Sunday), there was the election for the parliament of the German state of Mecklenburg-West Pomerania.

The northernmost state of former East Germany is a small state with only 1.6 million inhabitants. It's the political home of Chancellor Angela Merkel (center-right CDU), who used to win her direct seat in that state in past federal elections.


In the last state election 2011, the right-wing populist AFD did not exist yet, but now it managed to score another victory, by jumping from zero up to 20.8% of the votes, becoming party #2 in that state -- something no other party managed to do in the history of the Federal Republic before (the AFD managed to achieve a similar success in the state of Saxony-Anhalt in March 2016).


However, the center-left SPD managed to maintain the status as strongest party with 30.6% of the votes. Merkel's CDU was humiliated: They fell back on spot #3.



The official result:


Party (leaning) -- % of votes -- gains and losses compared to 2011 -- seats in the state parliament


Social Democrats (center-left SPD) -- 30.6% -- -5.0% -- 26 seats

Alternative for Germany (right-wing populist AFD) -- 20.8% -- +20.8% -- 18 seats

Christian Democrats (center-right CDU) -- 19.0% -- -4.0% -- 16 seats

Left Party (socialist Linke) -- 13.2% -- -5.2% -- 11 seats

-------------------------- below 5.0% and thus no seats in the parliament ----------------------------

Green Party (progressive-environmentalist B'90/Grüne) -- 4.8% -- -3.9% -- 0 seats

Free Democrats (libertarian FDP) -- 3.0% -- +0.2% -- 0 seats

National Democrats (neo-Nazi NPD) -- 3.0% -- -3.0% -- 0 seats

all others combined -- 5.6%

Turnout: 61.6%





Prime Minister Erwin Sellering (center-left SPD) governed the state since 2008 in a coalition with the center-right CDU as junior partner. He's now in the comfortable situation of being able to choose a coalition partner: Either he continues with the CDU, or he chooses the socialist Left Party instead. Both coalitions existed in Mecklenburg-WP already (1998-2006 SPD/Left Party and 2006-16 SPD/CDU).



The Green Party is traditionally struggling in former East Germany. In 2011, the Fukushima disaster had given them a push to enter the state parliament for the first time, but now they're out again.


It's nice to see IMO that the hardcore neo-Nazi party NPD was diselected from the parliament again, where they had been represented for two terms, since 2006. Last year already, the NPD was diselected from the Saxony state parliament, so there are no longer any open neo-Nazis present in any German state or federal parliaments -- unless you'd argue that a much larger number of AFD members is even worse.




AFD top candidate is Leif-Erik Holm, formerly a popular radio host and disc jockey. Unlike his fellows in other states, he's considered relatively moderate by AFD standards. Nevertheless, he made many statements warning of "the rising power of Islam", the "loss of culture and tradition" and stressed he wants to limit immigration.



Landtagswahl-Ergebnisse aus Mecklenburg-Vorpommern |Â*ZEIT ONLINE

This is very important, I'm very glad that the German people are rising up to fight the evil forces that want to punish them.

truthatallcost said:

This is very important, I'm very glad that the German people are rising up to fight the evil forces that want to punish them.

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You mean the evil forces of stupidity and authoritarianism?

German guy said:

You mean the evil forces of stupidity and authoritarianism?

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The evil forces that want Germans punished for something a previous generation did. They are the ones leading Germany down the wrong path, all for some erroneous, inflated figure that they obsess over.

truthatallcost said:

The evil forces that want Germans punished for something a previous generation did. They are the ones leading Germany down the wrong path, all for some erroneous, inflated figure that they obsess over.

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Who? The Jewish world conspiracy that controls America and the world?

German guy said:

Who? The Jewish world conspiracy that controls America and the world?

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Are you familiar with AIPAC? Go research how much influence that AIPAC wields over the United States, and then tell me if Israel couldn't do the same to your country of they wanted to.

Guess I remember now why I didn't post here in a while... this forum has become a ****hole full of disgusting racist scum.

Looks like a victory for the German left.

German guy said:

Guess I remember now why I didn't post here in a while... this forum has become a ****hole full of disgusting racist scum.

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You mean people that tell you how dangerous Islam is. That seems to be a sore spot of yours.

German guy said:

Today (Sunday), there was the election for the parliament of the German state of Mecklenburg-West Pomerania.

The northernmost state of former East Germany is a small state with only 1.6 million inhabitants. It's the political home of Chancellor Angela Merkel (center-right CDU), who used to win her direct seat in that state in past federal elections.


In the last state election 2011, the right-wing populist AFD did not exist yet, but now it managed to score another victory, by jumping from zero up to 20.8% of the votes, becoming party #2 in that state -- something no other party managed to do in the history of the Federal Republic before (the AFD managed to achieve a similar success in the state of Saxony-Anhalt in March 2016).


However, the center-left SPD managed to maintain the status as strongest party with 30.6% of the votes. Merkel's CDU was humiliated: They fell back on spot #3.



The official result:


Party (leaning) -- % of votes -- gains and losses compared to 2011 -- seats in the state parliament


Social Democrats (center-left SPD) -- 30.6% -- -5.0% -- 26 seats

Alternative for Germany (right-wing populist AFD) -- 20.8% -- +20.8% -- 18 seats

Christian Democrats (center-right CDU) -- 19.0% -- -4.0% -- 16 seats

Left Party (socialist Linke) -- 13.2% -- -5.2% -- 11 seats

-------------------------- below 5.0% and thus no seats in the parliament ----------------------------

Green Party (progressive-environmentalist B'90/Grüne) -- 4.8% -- -3.9% -- 0 seats

Free Democrats (libertarian FDP) -- 3.0% -- +0.2% -- 0 seats

National Democrats (neo-Nazi NPD) -- 3.0% -- -3.0% -- 0 seats

all others combined -- 5.6%

Turnout: 61.6%

Prime Minister Erwin Sellering (center-left SPD) governed the state since 2008 in a coalition with the center-right CDU as junior partner. He's now in the comfortable situation of being able to choose a coalition partner: Either he continues with the CDU, or he chooses the socialist Left Party instead. Both coalitions existed in Mecklenburg-WP already (1998-2006 SPD/Left Party and 2006-16 SPD/CDU).



The Green Party is traditionally struggling in former East Germany. In 2011, the Fukushima disaster had given them a push to enter the state parliament for the first time, but now they're out again.


It's nice to see IMO that the hardcore neo-Nazi party NPD was diselected from the parliament again, where they had been represented for two terms, since 2006. Last year already, the NPD was diselected from the Saxony state parliament, so there are no longer any open neo-Nazis present in any German state or federal parliaments -- unless you'd argue that a much larger number of AFD members is even worse.

AFD top candidate is Leif-Erik Holm, formerly a popular radio host and disc jockey. Unlike his fellows in other states, he's considered relatively moderate by AFD standards. Nevertheless, he made many statements warning of "the rising power of Islam", the "loss of culture and tradition" and stressed he wants to limit immigration.



Landtagswahl-Ergebnisse aus Mecklenburg-Vorpommern |Â*ZEIT ONLINE

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Good thing the Social Democrats are still on top. How much sway do the far-right populists have in former East Germany as opposed to the rest of the country?

MadLib said:

Good thing the Social Democrats are still on top. How much sway do the far-right populists have in former East Germany as opposed to the rest of the country?

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More than in the last regional elections in Baden Wuerttemberg and the Rhineland Palatinate.

But one needs to see that Mecklenburg-Vorpommers is a bit like the pits. Beautiful country, don't get me wrong, but where it is the 6th largest Federal state of Germany by area, it's total population doesn't even reach the numbers of Hamburg (a city state having a minute fraction of that area). Heck, Berlin has more than double the number of population.

But the AfD (the white washed Nazis that are now felt as being palatable to vote for) has its strength in the East.

It not only caters to xenophobia but actually creates and then feeds it. Ironically most successfully in areas (East) which have the lowest percentage of "furriners" in all of Germany. In fact most Easterners wouldn't know a migrant if they got bitten by one, never having come across anyone of that category (bit like with some on here).

All democratic parties lost to the AfD but that party got its most votes from those not having voted at all 5 years ago (first place of gains) and from the Nazis (2nd place).

All things told it did not make out as well as the opinion polls placed it.

That it represents a rightist trend for Germany in total (as some on here fervently dream in pursuit of own agenda and combined with ignorance) is absolute rubbish.

Chagos said:

More than in the last regional elections in Baden Wuerttemberg and the Rhineland Palatinate.

But one needs to see that Mecklenburg-Vorpommers is a bit like the pits. Beautiful country, don't get me wrong, but where it is the 6th largest Federal state of Germany by area, it's total population doesn't even reach the numbers of Hamburg (a city state having a minute fraction of that area). Heck, Berlin has more than double.

But the AfD (the white washed Nazis that are now felt as being palatable to vote for) has its strength in the East.

It not only caters to xenophobia but actually creates and then feeds it. Ironically most successfully in areas (East) which have the lowest percentage of "furriners" in all of Germany. In fact most Easterners wouldn't know a migrant if they got bitten by one, never having come across anyone of that category (bit like with some on here).

All democratic parties lost to the AfD but that party got its most votes from those not having voted at all 5 years ago (first place of gains) and from the Nazis (2nd place).

All things told it did not make out as well as the opinion polls placed it.

That it represents a rightist trend for Germany in total (as some on here fervently dream in pursuit of own agenda and combined with ignorance) is absolute rubbish.

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Islamists are the new Nazis. In Germany and around the world. Not realizing that is where the (willful) ignorance comes in.

German guy said:

~..................-- unless you'd argue that a much larger number of AFD members is even worse..........~

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I'd actually argue precisely that.

Not because the whole of the AfD could be called Nazi or even all of its voters, but because all the Nazi voters have flocked to it.

The beast, to paraphrase Brecht's Arturo Ui, remains in heat.

Chagos said:

I'd actually argue precisely that.

Not because the whole of the AfD could be called Nazi or even all of its voters, but because all the Nazi voters have flocked to it.

The beast, to paraphrase Brecht's Arturo Ui, remains in heat.

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Progressive foolishness will lead to backlash, it happens every time; Trump in the U.S., Alternative for Germany, Brexit.

52% turned out last time, 62% this time, which tells me that AfD is doing a good job of getting people involved in the process. Next up is Berlin:

The AfD now has representation in eight of Germany's 16 states. Nationally, the party is polling at around 12 percent, while in Berlin support is around 14 percent.

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Berlin?s mayor warns of growing AfD support | News | DW.COM | 21.08.2016

may be a little bit simplistic, but that is my opinion:



means:

If in the state with the
lowest population density
and the lowest amount of refugees
22% vote for the AFD, driven from fear
of refugees, than the Government
should not think of
a more strict refugee policy.

But think of the education policy.

german hick said:

may be a little bit simplistic, but that is my opinion:

View attachment 67206833

means:

If in the state with the
lowest population density
and the lowest amount of refugees
22% vote for the AFD, driven from fear
of refugees, than the Government
should not think of
a more strict refugee policy.

But think of the education policy.

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The trouble with a stance like that one (even where I agree that blatant ignorance is the main problem) lies in it representing the very same attitude that caused the commies of the GDR to be met with contempt. It smacks of the old Brecht sarcasm "If the people refuse to vote for the government they have (that's best for them), maybe the government should elect itself a new people." Except this time around it's not about commies.

Changing the education system (or advocating such) is yet another mode of heaping contempt on the people that vote AfD and will achieve nothing other than cementing existing obstinacy. The human factor.

I'm too far away from (for instance) Germany, France and the UK to sample the actual national moods, all I can rely on is TV coverage and other media.

Nevertheless one can see a trend in all of the above three by which the "established" parties demonstrate a worrying myopia in throwing a sop to these sentiments to obtain short term gains and be it by damage control.

What is really needed but takes more guts is direct and controversial combat with the very ideas that these populist rat catchers are selling.

The AfD (in this particular case) doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to presenting anything remotely resembling a policy of solutions. They're economically incompetent, socially incompetent, educationally incompetent, incompetent in foreign affairs.............in short incompetent in practically ANY field.

That's where the lever needs to be set and the guts I mention earlier consist of risking short term losses to further long term developments, rather than taking a "let's wait" position in the futile hope that the rat catchers will put themselves "ad absurdum" sooner or later. Because with inactivity of this kind, coupled with trying to pull over the malcontents by little measures of appeasement, it'll be later and that could possibly be too late.

That's the problem with our democracies today and it didn't take the AfD (or UKIP or Le Pen) to show "the game" as being one of simply looking to the next elections tomorrow. With everybody trying to gain everyone by promising everything to all.

Hawkeye10 said:

52% turned out last time, 62% this time, which tells me that AfD is doing a good job of getting people involved in the process. Next up is Berlin:

Berlin?s mayor warns of growing AfD support | News | DW.COM | 21.08.2016

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To give an idea on where (from where) votes flocked to the AfD in these elections



one can see that their "enormous" success actually consisted of 133,000 votes altogether. Given the actual population of the most sparsely populated state in Germany, we can see what sort of peanuts we're talking about here.

But

They took the greatest portion from the (hitherto) non-voters (Nichtwähler), the second biggest from the "conservatives" and, where the graphic above doesn't show it, of the 22,000 others (Andere), 19,000 were taken from the NPD (Nazis), thus precluding it from making it into parliament.

That'll be over 14 pct of their result, not counting those "non-voters" whose ideological preferences remain unknown.

Chagos said:

The trouble with a
.
.
.
That's the problem with our democracies today and it didn't take the AfD (or UKIP or Le Pen) to show "the game" as being one of simply looking to the next elections tomorrow. With everybody trying to gain everyone by promising everything to all.

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Mostly right BUT at the end of the day "the rat catchers" are not the problem. They are the reaction to the problem. The problem is that those running the systems make too many crap decisions, they tend to be not honest, they tend to reject the concept of free speech and free minds, and most importantly they tend to forget they work for the locals and what the locals want comes before their global Utopian dreams. You go wrong when deride those who have a problem with this bad work. The AfD is not promising everything to everyone, they are promising Germans that important questions will be put to the people, they are promising to put Germans first, they are promising to tell the people the truth, they are promising to respect peoples right to their own mind and their right to speak it. Let us not forget Germany is the place where the bosses almost too a man formed a gang and told the Germans complaining about the invasion of the vagabonds that they are bad Germans who need to shut up, or else. You betcha some people are going to have a problem with that, are going to decide that the leaders need to leave, that the leaders no longer have the moral standing to lead.

Chagos said:

What is really needed but takes more guts is direct and controversial combat with the very ideas that these populist rat catchers are selling.

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On the opposite, there is a reason if Chirac refused the debate with Le Pen in 2002. In 2016 it would be even worse because Juppé, Hollande or Montebourg will give her daughter the victory if they ever debate with her.

If they ever debated Le Pen, they would find themselves trying to explain why they think more Muslims is good for France, why they think Islam is good and should be equal to our values (many recently advocated for multiculturalism), why they want to tax non-Muslims to fund Mosques (the latest socialist idea of a halal tax, 40% of the meat produced around Paris), and how they hope to fix our ghettos by replacing a few hundreds of imams, their only ridiculous proposition to fight the cultural and religious problems in our ghettos.

They would try to counter on the euro, then she would answer with the names of ten Nobel prices of economy who publicly called the euro a "mistake" at best, or a "disaster" or a "catastrophe", and many who explicitly asked for its dismantlement. She could also mention similar public statements from the IMF and the biggest private financial analysts.

Ironically, the only hope of Juppé would be to show voters that she is not radical enough, therefore that her proposals would not make much difference when compared to his own.

The AfD (in this particular case) doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to presenting anything remotely resembling a policy of solutions. They're economically incompetent, socially incompetent, educationally incompetent, incompetent in foreign affairs.............in short incompetent in practically ANY field.

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I am not familiar with the AfD and German politics, but in France nowadays I find very hard for our politicians to boast about their professionalism and competence. For the past twenty years I did read and heard politicians ridiculing themselves with blatant demonstrations of ignorance and amateurism, and everyone of our diplomatic and economic policies seemed to had been improvised during the breakfast.

Auvergnat said:

On the opposite, there is a reason if Chirac refused the debate with Le Pen in 2002. In 2016 it would be even worse because Juppé, Hollande or Montebourg will give her daughter the victory if they ever debate with her.

If they ever debated Le Pen, they would find themselves trying to explain why they think more Muslims is good for France, why they think Islam is good and should be equal to our values (many recently advocated for multiculturalism), why they want to tax non-Muslims to fund Mosques (the latest socialist idea of a halal tax, 40% of the meat produced around Paris), and how they hope to fix our ghettos by replacing a few hundreds of imams, their only ridiculous proposition to fight the cultural and religious problems in our ghettos.

They would try to counter on the euro, then she would answer with the names of ten Nobel prices of economy who publicly called the euro a "mistake" at best, or a "disaster" or a "catastrophe", and many who explicitly asked for its dismantlement. She could also mention similar public statements from the IMF and the biggest private financial analysts.

Ironically, the only hope of Juppé would be to show voters that she is not radical enough, therefore that her proposals would not make much difference when compared to his own.


I am not familiar with the AfD and German politics, but in France nowadays I find very hard for our politicians to boast about their professionalism and competence. For the past twenty years I did read and heard politicians ridiculing themselves with blatant demonstrations of ignorance and amateurism, and everyone of our diplomatic and economic policies seemed to had been improvised during the breakfast.

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This is exactly where I am with the Americans. You just gotta shake your head wondering what percentage of the words coming out of their mouths do they actually believe, because we might just be in mental illness territory.

Let me mimic your first line

Hawkeye10 said:

Mostly right BUT at the end of the day.................~

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.....because if you believe that the AfD has anything to offer by way of salient address of problems,let alone solutions, you'd be as duped as those voting for it.

As to my comment about offering anything to jut about anybody, that applied to the established parties and their myopic manner of looking merely to the next election result.

But one might equally apply it to the AfD, main difference being that the establishment may be able to deliver but often won't, where the AfD simply can't at any time.

Chagos said:

Let me mimic your first line.....because if you believe that the AfD has anything to offer by way of salient address of problems,let alone solutions, you'd be as duped as those voting for it.

As to my comment about offering anything to jut about anybody, that applied to the established parties and their myopic manner of looking merely to the next election result.

But one might equally apply it to the AfD, main difference being that the establishment may be able to deliver but often won't, where the AfD simply can't at any time.

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If what you are doing is not working, has not been working, then do something else.

Anything else is a better better than a sure loser, a known incompetent.

Dont count out the AfD getting better over time either .

And at least they have no blood on them.

Which is better than everybody else.

Auvergnat said:

On the opposite, there is a reason if Chirac refused the debate with Le Pen in 2002. In 2016 it would be even worse because Juppé, Hollande or Montebourg will give her daughter the victory if they ever debate with her.

If they ever debated Le Pen, they would find themselves trying to explain why they think more Muslims is good for France, why they think Islam is good and should be equal to our values (many recently advocated for multiculturalism), why they want to tax non-Muslims to fund Mosques (the latest socialist idea of a halal tax, 40% of the meat produced around Paris), and how they hope to fix our ghettos by replacing a few hundreds of imams, their only ridiculous proposition to fight the cultural and religious problems in our ghettos.

They would try to counter on the euro, then she would answer with the names of ten Nobel prices of economy who publicly called the euro a "mistake" at best, or a "disaster" or a "catastrophe", and many who explicitly asked for its dismantlement. She could also mention similar public statements from the IMF and the biggest private financial analysts.

Ironically, the only hope of Juppé would be to show voters that she is not radical enough, therefore that her proposals would not make much difference when compared to his own.


I am not familiar with the AfD and German politics, but in France nowadays I find very hard for our politicians to boast about their professionalism and competence. For the past twenty years I did read and heard politicians ridiculing themselves with blatant demonstrations of ignorance and amateurism, and everyone of our diplomatic and economic policies seemed to had been improvised during the breakfast.

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Oh, I see the conundrum.

Germany differs somewhat in that it has neither the problem of taxing non-Muslims (to fund whatever), not does it have the types of banlieus that are more and more rapidly falling to the control of radicals.

But that's thru no particular personal achievement of anyone, certainly not a result of wisdom on anyone's part.

Call it luck or whatever, things developed somewhat differently there on account of a different set of parameters ruling.

That all having been said, I maintain the position that running after the rat catchers by the method of trying to out-Le Pen the FN or out-Petry the AfD is going to have many thinking "well, if that's how it is, I might as well go straight to the real thing".

A real political fight as I used to know it decades ago, consisted of engaging in battle with open visors, rolling with the incoming punches and hitting harder than one got hit.

What we see today is a whore game.

Everywhere.