BREAKING: The Next French Infantry Rifle Is German –

zyzygy said:

So I can't be interested in why he posted such mundane news as part of his obsession with running Europe down?

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Who said you cannot be interested... but to just post an attack of the idea of a thread and its author... what did that do for you and for the rest of us reading your, in reality, 'nothingness'? You did not address the topic, anything in the linked article, you just condemned the thread... that does what, make you feel better or what?

I would have some respect for your comments if they attacked the OP and items in the linked article itself. What is being identified for Americans, and PK in this thread pointed out to us, is that we need to make such decisions ourselves, remind us not get wrapped up in the kind of system that Europe thought would be best.

I think that is a motive behind what Mickey is/was doing here and elsewhere. I agree with him in that... most of Europe, especially the EU, is a failed model, not to be followed by rational observers.

Gaugingcatenate said:

I think that was a good answer and it would be strange to most Americans that a force outside of our own country might impose its requirements upon us in this manner. Might be good, we could debate that, but in any event that is your choice over there and ours is different over here.

But a good post in perhaps delineating the reason behind such a purchase.

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You should not see this is a force outside of once's own country, this is because France is part of an economic union, that means French companies get extra chances in other EU countries and this time the French arms industry lost out but in other situations German companies will loose out on a German contract in favor of a French company.

Peter King said:

You should not see this is a force outside of once's own country, this is because France is part of an economic union, that means French companies get extra chances in other EU countries and this time the French arms industry lost out but in other situations German companies will loose out on a German contract in favor of a French company.

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Sorry, but I will view it in American terms and as I see it. I am not an advocate of your "economic union" and this is an area where you find value and I find fault.

That is another part of what I like about our system, we have less restraint on freedom of speech/expression than you folks in the EU.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Who said you cannot be interested... but to just post an attack of the idea of a thread and its author... what did that do for you and for the rest of us reading your, in reality, 'nothingness'? You did not address the topic, anything in the linked article, you just condemned the thread... that does what, make you feel better or what?

I would have some respect for your comments if they attacked the OP and items in the linked article itself. What is being identified for Americans, and PK in this thread pointed out to us, is that we need to make such decisions ourselves, remind us not get wrapped up in the kind of system that Europe thought would be best.

I think that is a motive behind what Mickey is/was doing here and elsewhere. I agree with him in that... most of Europe, especially the EU, is a failed model, not to be followed by rational observers.

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Yes it's really bad over here in Belgium. It makes one yearn for the halcyon days of WW2. No problems over there in the USA.

cool, german (h&k in particular) guns tend to be nice. though fn puts out a good product as well.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Actually we are used to being a totally sovereign country that can make all our own choices about all that we do in any way WE decide.

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LOL your own choices.. now that is funny.. You have very little influence in the US.. the country is run by rich corporations who do what they want. "We" is not the people, it is the few hundred who run the big companies. Funny how the US government is defending a known tax dodger... with lies at that. Claiming the EU is going after American companies, when most of the cases of state aid are against European industries and companies..

Auvergnat said:

I do not think it still makes sense today to try to have an exclusively French-born arsenal.

We never exported much rifles, there are many equally good rifles readily available out there for cheaper, and in need we can start a production line ourselves within a couple of months. So it seems better to focus on more advanced products where we do have a competitive and strategic advantage. I would keep the ammo production on our soil though.

It pisses me off that some of our suppliers are German, though.

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Why?

As long as the weapon works, who cares that it's German?

QuadpolarNutjob said:

cool, german (h&k in particular) guns tend to be nice. though fn puts out a good product as well.

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they once were - when I was in the army we had the G3 - a simple gun that worked - now they have the G36 and problems over problems

I think the American an the European ways are just different - as long as we share similar values I´m fine with that - I like the way we do it here (mostly ) - and I would not want to live in a country only run by buisness interests (one reason I´m a big oponent of TTIP and CETA) - but hey, I don´t need to

Tigerace117 said:

As long as the weapon works, who cares that it's German?

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First of all because Germany is our main competitor When they win, we lose.

Second of all because I resent them for the WW2. Because I see in their medias that they still believe in German superiority and they still believe they are fated to rule Europe and look us with contempt. Because the EU made me hate the words "Europe" and "European". Because I resent them for exploiting our traitorous and stupid French governments against us to promote rules against our interests. Because Germany is an important promoter of unification and of the economic policies that have ravaged European economies and threaten to throw our continent in fire. I do not ignore the shared responsibilities of the traitorous French governments, but Germany was their accomplice and, when it comes to the monetary and economic rules, the main promoter and profiteer.

I think the American an the European ways are just different - as long as we share similar values I´m fine with that - I like the way we do it here (mostly ) - and I would not want to live in a country only run by buisness interests (one reason I´m a big oponent of TTIP and CETA) - but hey, I don´t need to

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The USA somehow work, the EU doesn't at all, and you have to be blind to not see it. Every economist and financial institution on this planet is now busy explaining why the eurozone is a disaster. As for the EU, Bruxelles is one of the most corrupted cities in the world so I have no doubt about which interests drive it.

European countries used to work. Now we just enjoy the inertia and capital we gathered from before the EU and eurozone. The upcoming decades will see the fall of European peace, prosperity, power and civilization, and the EU will be the main culprit.

Auvergnat said:

First of all because Germany is our main competitor When they win, we lose.

that they still believe in German superiority and they still believe they are fated to rule Europe

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at least this is complete bull****.. who is "they" - all Germans? I think in general a Frenchman is much more nationalistic and proud than a German.

Where do you know all this things from? May be there is corruption, we cann not proove, but elsewhere is surely corruption, too. I like the idea of the EU because it gives us peace.

german hick said:

I like the idea of the EU because it gives us peace.

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Groundless propaganda.

What gave us peace is, on one hand, piles of corpses and nuclear weapons and, on the other hand, the GATT and Pax Americana, that guaranteed that every country on this planet could buy any resource in exchange for its own goods on the global free markets, therefore preventing the conditions behind the German bellicism in the WW1 and Japan's inevitable reaction in WW2.

Europe could disappear tomorrow, free markets would render useless a war between us. However you may very well see military actions in Europe again when the EU will discipline weak segregationists (Greek default) and resume jingoism in the buffer between EU and Russia. And when European leaders will realize that the only thing that can unite 28 cultures under a common identity is an enemy. I would not be surprised to see them set up a cold war for this purpose and suddenly see this war turn hot.

Auvergnat said:

First of all because Germany is our main competitor When they win, we lose.

Second of all because I resent them for the WW2. Because I see in their medias that they still believe in German superiority and they still believe they are fated to rule Europe and look us with contempt. Because the EU made me hate the words "Europe" and "European". Because I resent them for exploiting our traitorous and stupid French governments against us to promote rules against our interests. Because Germany is an important promoter of unification and of the economic policies that have ravaged European economies and threaten to throw our continent in fire. I do not ignore the shared responsibilities of the traitorous French governments, but Germany was their accomplice and, when it comes to the monetary and economic rules, the main promoter and profiteer.


The USA somehow work, the EU doesn't at all, and you have to be blind to not see it. Every economist and financial institution on this planet is now busy explaining why the eurozone is a disaster. As for the EU, Bruxelles is one of the most corrupted cities in the world so I have no doubt about which interests drive it.

European countries used to work. Now we just enjoy the inertia and capital we gathered from before the EU and eurozone. The upcoming decades will see the fall of European peace, prosperity, power and civilization, and the EU will be the main culprit.

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Things aren't zero sum. They make money; you get a good rifle for your military. I fail to see the problem here.

World War Two was many, many, many years ago. There's no proof that Germany is plotting to rule Europe.

Just because you dislike the EU doesn't mean you shoul scorn good weapons for no reason.

And how is the French government traitorous?

seems I am blind

but thank you for not mentioning the "evil germans" again but speaking of our ruling classes. In some way I am with you than. Seems if someone starts dealing with politics on a higher Level he has to give up his conscience in some way.

the so called "free market" in my opinion (and Germany is one of the ruthless players in that case) is only a construkt to get cheap raw materials from the third world to keep us rich and them poor.

Tigerace117 said:

Things aren't zero sum

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Sometimes they are, and even when they are not it does not mean that the pros necessarily exceed the cons. The European market has been mostly zero-sum so far, although not totally, and there have been many losers.

And how is the French government traitorous?

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All of our governments for the past decades supported the EU, this makes them traitors since the very purpose of the EU is to subject us to a higher authority and strip us from our sovereignty in order to create a higher nation with another culture and language, and other interests than ours.

Power should be preferably kept at the individual level, otherwise at the local level, otherwise at the national level. It should never be put into the hands of a supra-national entity, with divergent interests, cultural and linguistic heterogeneity and therefore no political life or consensus, or solidarity. Ding so is a treason of our democracy, our interests and our culture.

Auvergnat said:

Power should be preferably kept at the individual level, otherwise at the local level, otherwise at the national level. It should never be put into the hands of a supra-national entity, with divergent interests, cultural and linguistic heterogeneity and therefore no political life or consensus, or solidarity.

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hm - you have some areas with other languages than French (thanks to strict suppression in school system and society much less than some years ago) Brittany , Basque , Alsace-Lorraine etc - should they all have secedet in earlier times?

german hick said:

hm - you have some areas with other languages than French (thanks to strict suppression in school system and society much less than some years ago) Brittany , Basque , Alsace-Lorraine etc - should they all have secedet in earlier times?

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They would have liked to but we did not give them the choice. Do you advocate for using the methods of that time? Anyway Europe will use them if we let you do so, because Europe can only survive by performing the greatest cultural destruction ever achieved so far.

I cannot wait to see our new football-Harry potter kultur. Good riddance, all those useless words and dead artists were so totally 1.0...

some time ago there was a slogan "Europe of the regions" - that one had charme for me. I as a Westphalian have a lot more in common with a Dutchman, Englishman (sorryly out) or a Skandinavian than with a bavarian or a swabian guy

MickeyW said:

In your opinion....anymore snidely things to say?



I know what he meant and all he ever has is snidely comments as well, rarely starting a thread, just bashing mine and those of others.
I submit that I contribute as much to this forum as anyone else, it's just that I put up topics the MSM ignores and liberals here bash, because none of you want to hear it and can't handle the truth ...when posted.

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Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its really rather ironic that there are so many people jumping in and apparently wasting their time to stomp their feet about what a waste of time this thread is. WTF is wrong with you that you feel compelled to comment on something that apparently you dont care about?

Peter King said:

There is nothing strange about it, as this is a government purchase, in accordance with the EU regulations regarding government procurement, this contract has to be offered to all EU companies who can choose to enter the procurement contract procedure. This is done to enhance competition, to enable fairer and more transparent government procurement so that the products the governments buy are of the best quality possible for the best price possible. Making the nationality of the producer of lesser importance and more importance given to good price and a great product. This is good for the government and in this case the soldiers because they are getting the best gun possible and for the government because usually it saves money and this less tax payer funds have to be spent to procure the products the government needs.

So no, not strange at all because it all has to do with governmental procurement rules in the EU.

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Once again the EU decides...hmmmm. I'm all for good prices and good quality and the H&K fits the quality part, but their prices are way too high, so I don't think this is the best bang for the buck, but what the hell, taxpayers will foot the bill anyway.

PeteEU said:

To be fair, such things dont happen in the US, so he does not know any better. He is use to no bid contracts or politically motivated procurement... /wave US Air Force.

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That's not altogether true. Competition in bidding happens all the time and the US Govt. doesn't always dictate the rules. The procurement for the standard military sidearm, went through a long process with many competitors bidding, we are getting ready to do that again.
I don't have any idea who is going to get the contract, but I'm thinking it won't be Beretta again.

zyzygy said:

Only to be expected. He knows nothing about Europe. He does have a Europe fixation, I don't know why.

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Ahhh I know some things about Europe....enough to know that the EU is a bad deal and allowing immigrants in to ruin your countries is also a bad deal. See my thread on Lake Como.

gunner said:

Of all the 'woe's' in the world right now, you think this warrant's a "breaking news" story?

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Depends on what people like to read about. liberals would never post this story.

Auvergnat said:

Except that contracts that pertain to national sovereignty, defense being explicitly mentioned, are exempted from the public procurement rules. If France had wanted to consider this rifle market as a relevant exception, I doubt the EUCJ would have disavowed us.

Personally I think this is an emblematic step in the construction of an European defense industry. Not so long ago, France, Germany or the UK would have systematically turned towards national contractors.

I am against the European construction, but I favor the emergence of an European defense industry, so I welcome those changes. And I am convinced that it will benefit France more often than not.

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We agree here to some extent.

Μολὼν λαβέ;1066267595 said:

Its a variant of the H&K 416. I'm sure its overpriced.

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I'm sure it is.

RetiredNSmilin said:

From what I have seen with HK and their US market, you may have to mortgage your first-born to own one.

Just look at what a 416 costs compared to other piston ARs.

All the while I hang on to my Rock River AR and my ARMSCORPS all GI Match M14.

By all means, if you have the means, let me know how it is.

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I have the means, but I was joking about adding one to my collection. They are overpriced and no better than other brands.
Heavier too.

german hick said:

some time ago there was a slogan "Europe of the regions" - that one had charme for me. I as a Westphalian have a lot more in common with a Dutchman, Englishman (sorryly out) or a Skandinavian than with a bavarian or a swabian guy

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It actually does not fit my taste as I have no regional identity and it will encourage multiculturalism. Yet I expect democracy to indeed move further to the local scale in the future and I admit it will be more democratic. But localism cannot legitimate Europe: a France of cities remains more sensible than an Europe of regions because of our cultural and linguistic homogeneity, and national identity, and because regions are not local enough. Actually the shift to a post-economic localism makes Europe even more obsolete than it is (it is an idea from 1950 for me, unfit for a global world and the end of scarcity). The concept of an "Europe of regions" is simply a bold attempt to divide us and further destroy national identities in order to force us into an Imperial identity.

Trade, money and borders are not some anecdotal technical question, they are central question in democracies. Remove them and not much is left. Especially since the EU goes further (both the parliament and justice courts used their own peculiar interpretations of the Human rights convention to enforce rules regarding immigration, freedom of speech, statistics, etc). Besides trade inevitably ends up consuming education, diplomacy, transports, immigration, etc. As an example the US federal state was thought to be a trade and defense collective, now look at the monster it became. And this evolution mostly happened de facto, by a matter of sheer interpretations, without constitutional changes.

The only thing for which I want an union is defense, but this is a total failure so far. Not as a replacement to NATO (I believe in a western alliance), but rather as a complement, because the USA are too big when compared to the rest, and they would purposely destroy our national military industries to make us dependent.

H&K makes outstanding weapons, but affordable? They must be giving the French a sweetheart offering.

german hick said:

some time ago there was a slogan "Europe of the regions" - that one had charme for me. I as a Westphalian have a lot more in common with a Dutchman, Englishman (sorryly out) or a Skandinavian than with a bavarian or a swabian guy

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You might not be alone.

Evidently, the current governor of Silesia uses both Polish and German place names and has started to openly acknowledge the Germanic side of local culture. In Westphalia, cross borders regional identity is probably not that serious. But it is very serious in Poland. Warsaw is not happy... .

Gaugingcatenate said:

To the both of you, why do you come to a thread and all you can add is an attack of the thread's inferior, to your mind, content and strike out against its author? Seems like you were interested enough to initially come and view... but you cannot read the title and linked material and, if it does not particularly interest you, keep the mouth shut and move on to something that does?

Reminds me of the joke about the classified add for the sale of a used French Army issue rifle, in great shape, used twice, only thrown down once... ha ha ha.... or the newest French tank, comes standard with three gears for reverse... one in forward just in case they get attacked from behind, ah ha ha ha ha ha...

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Yep, those are funny ones. Thanks for your support and you are spot on, the Lefties love to bash me and anything I post, and are constantly disrespectful.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Actually we are used to being a totally sovereign country that can make all our own choices about all that we do in any way WE decide.

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Exactly. Something Europeans have trouble understanding.

zyzygy said:

So I can't be interested in why he posted such mundane news as part of his obsession with running Europe down?

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I have no desire to run down Europe, I just don't agree with their politics and especially the EU.
I love Europe, or at least I use to, before the immigrant invasion.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Who said you cannot be interested... but to just post an attack of the idea of a thread and its author... what did that do for you and for the rest of us reading your, in reality, 'nothingness'? You did not address the topic, anything in the linked article, you just condemned the thread... that does what, make you feel better or what?

I would have some respect for your comments if they attacked the OP and items in the linked article itself. What is being identified for Americans, and PK in this thread pointed out to us, is that we need to make such decisions ourselves, remind us not get wrapped up in the kind of system that Europe thought would be best.

I think that is a motive behind what Mickey is/was doing here and elsewhere. I agree with him in that... most of Europe, especially the EU, is a failed model, not to be followed by rational observers.

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Agreed!

Gaugingcatenate said:

Sorry, but I will view it in American terms and as I see it. I am not an advocate of your "economic union" and this is an area where you find value and I find fault.

That is another part of what I like about our system, we have less restraint on freedom of speech/expression than you folks in the EU.

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Yes indeed.

zyzygy said:

Yes it's really bad over here in Belgium. It makes one yearn for the halcyon days of WW2. No problems over there in the USA.

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It sure was when the terrorists hit and with all your Muslims in place, doesn't sound like it's getting any better.

QuadpolarNutjob said:

cool, german (h&k in particular) guns tend to be nice. though fn puts out a good product as well.

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They sure do. Too bad the EU has to stick it's nose in. When I say sovereignty is lost, that's what I mean.

MickeyW said:

Once again the EU decides...hmmmm. I'm all for good prices and good quality and the H&K fits the quality part, but their prices are way too high, so I don't think this is the best bang for the buck, but what the hell, taxpayers will foot the bill anyway.

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Once again you dont understand how a common market works and how the EU works. You do know that Washington decides a hell of a lot in your common market over there in the US.. right?

That's not altogether true. Competition in bidding happens all the time and the US Govt. doesn't always dictate the rules. The procurement for the standard military sidearm, went through a long process with many competitors bidding, we are getting ready to do that again.
I don't have any idea who is going to get the contract, but I'm thinking it won't be Beretta again.

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Sure.. that is why the US had to redo the latest airplane tanker bids 3 times when congress stepped in.. and finally awarded it to Boeing over Airbus.