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French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

Auvergnat said:
That being said I fail to see the possible relationship between burka and criminality, unless you want to advocate again that liberalism is the best way to fight Islam, or that liberal ethics command that we let Islam rise, and that we should therefore let the burka spread. But I think we already have had this discussion.
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Quite the opposite, in the war against terror I don't have a problem to use measures which are not fit to liberal views, I think terror organizations using it as advantage against the west, as example you can see how Israel needed many legal advisers in any battle against Hamas because the UN and others will sue them even though they are fighting against terrorists which using citizens as humen shields. Many times views like that in a war helps the terrorists and hurt the ones who fighting against them.
 
Where did I said that it's the fault of racist white peoples if some Muslims are radicalizing ? I only said that it's only because of the medias if that lot of people feed a paranoia about Islamists, while the risk is far below what you are claiming. Of course Islamists are a threat to France and the whole world, but no, they're not a threat which could take over the country.

I'll never excuse Islamists, but I think the best way to stop them is to understand and block what makes Muslim people radicalizing instead of just kicking Muslims out just because "Duh Islam is destroying our civilization".
Laicity then, isn't a mean for Islam to spread because the main principle of it is to not favorize any religion. Plus no, kick the Muslims isn't a working solution, you can't just take around 5 million people and tell them to go away. What you will do is only creating hate between Muslim people and France.
 
Thalassin said:
Of course Islamists are a threat to France and the whole world, but no, they're not a threat which could take over the country.
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The country, no. But Île-de-France and the Bouches du Rhône, yes, it is a matter of youth demograhy (and while many Muslims are not islamists, all Muslim communities are). Unless we react.

As for the rest of the country, it has already been changed by Islam and will continue to change further. Unless we react.

you can't just take around 5 million people and tell them to go away.
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Of course, we can only expel one or two millions of them, the foreigners, and stop importing more. This would already significantly help, but it would not be enough.

For the rest we must de-islamize them. Propaganda, restrictions of religious freedom for Islam, undermining of their communities (which fuel their singular identity and therefore prevent their assimilation by the French identity), etc.
 
Auvergnat said:
The country, no. But Île-de-France and the Bouches du Rhône, yes, it is a matter of youth demograhy (and while many Muslims are not islamists, all Muslim communities are). Unless we react.

As for the rest of the country, it has already been changed by Islam and will continue to change further. Unless we react.


Of course, we can only expel one or two millions of them, the foreigners, and stop importing more. This would already significantly help, but it would not be enough.

For the rest we must de-islamize them. Propaganda, restrictions of religious freedom for Islam, undermining of their communities (which fuel their singular identity and therefore prevent their assimilation by the French identity), etc.
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how about truth religious Freedom so long as you respect the freedom of others and being friendly as a way to deal with your citizens and legal immigrants?
 
blarg said:
religious Freedom so long as you respect the freedom of others and being friendly as a way to deal with your citizens and legal immigrants?
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It is a fallacy to believe that an individual perspective is enough, that as long as they do not commit crimes everything is fine.

Because the more Islam spreads, the more our freedom recesses. The more Islam spreads, the more our culture and values recess, and we have the right to choose. Today we have millions of people who live in areas where it is dangerous to be gay, to be Jew, to wear a skirt or to criticize Islam, where brown people are forced to behave as "proper" Muslims. How could we use police forces to detect and arrest the two millions of assholes who exert this ordinary social pressure on a daily basis, those permanent little threats and gradual intimidation by so many people, this heavy social pressure? Especially in blocks where the police is easily targeted, where talking is seen as betraying the community? Liberalism cannot solve this.

And beyond that, what about the long-term, when former immigrants give birth to citizens who then vote for retrograde values? They will not break any law when they will change our laws.
 
Auvergnat said:
It is a fallacy to believe that an individual perspective is enough, that as long as they do not commit crimes everything is fine.

Because the more Islam spreads, the more our freedom recesses. The more Islam spreads, the more our culture and values recess, and we have the right to choose. Today we have millions of people who live in areas where it is dangerous to be gay, to be Jew, to wear a skirt or to criticize Islam, where brown people are forced to behave as "proper" Muslims. How could we use police forces to detect and arrest the two millions of assholes who exert this ordinary social pressure on a daily basis, those permanent little threats and gradual intimidation by so many people, this heavy social pressure? Especially in blocks where the police is easily targeted, where talking is seen as betraying the community? Liberalism cannot solve this.

And beyond that, what about the long-term, when former immigrants give birth to citizens who then vote for retrograde values? They will not break any law when they will change our laws.
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if human rights and freedom are what your defending you cant take away peoples religion when they dont impose it on you

if you want peoel to join you cant lie to them and treat them as your enemy

your fer will not overcome terrorism it wont make your Muslim citizens join you

it just gives them good reason to despise you

who do you thinck is going to fall for this crap instead of hating you for it?

For the rest we must de-islamize them. Propaganda, restrictions of religious freedom for Islam, undermining of their communities (which fuel their singular identity and therefore prevent their assimilation by the French identity), etc.
 
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