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EU terror summer-will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terrorism? [W:12]

Re: EU terror summer-will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terrorism? [W

The first Islamic terror attacks happened in the 7th century.

And Christian ones happened even earlier.
 
Re: EU terror summer-will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terrorism? [W

And Christian ones happened even earlier.

And they stopped a lot earlier.
 
Re: EU terror summer-will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terrorism? [W

And Christian ones happened even earlier.
and, to top it all:mrgreen:, the urge to respond to inane platitudes is older than both. ;)
 
Re: EU terror summer-will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terrorism? [W

and, to top it all:mrgreen:, the urge to respond to inane platitudes is older than both. ;)

And on top of that your commentary with complete lack of substance.
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

It's on page 2 of Religion and Politics, second from the bottom. I would be interested in your opinion of my response.

Those are interesting scriptural references, no question. It doesn't actually say "rape" per se, but only outlines with whom you may or may not engage in sexual relations. Wives and "those who your right hand possesses" are OK for sexual partners. In Muslim culture, a wife and a possession may not be all that different.

If we really have in this world a billion and a half people who base their morality on ancient writings, then no wonder the Middle East is such a mess.

On the other side, basing one's morality on the writings of the Old Testament wouldn't work terribly well in the modern world either. It's just that most Christians don't take those ancient writings quite so seriously.

Now, is there a solution to this problem? '
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

Those are interesting scriptural references, no question. It doesn't actually say "rape" per se, but only outlines with whom you may or may not engage in sexual relations. Wives and "those who your right hand possesses" are OK for sexual partners. In Muslim culture, a wife and a possession may not be all that different.

If we really have in this world a billion and a half people who base their morality on ancient writings, then no wonder the Middle East is such a mess.

On the other side, basing one's morality on the writings of the Old Testament wouldn't work terribly well in the modern world either. It's just that most Christians don't take those ancient writings quite so seriously.

Now, is there a solution to this problem? '
It may not be the solution but it would certainly be a start if certain interested parts stopped trying to sell their broad brush condemnation of a religion as the cause of all and any evil.

As sketched, even if the mess of the M.E. could be put down to people following ancient writings (a rather convenient but very doubtful claim), it might pay to remember that over two thirds of the world's Muslims don't even live in the M.E.

Quite apart from the fact that the claim of all of today's Muslims sticking literally to the writings of 1400 years ago doesn't get any truer by being constantly and mindlessly mantra-ed by those having that particular horse in the race.

Speaking of which (riding), they would all be compelled (were the aforesaid claim of value) to be using camels and horses for any form of transport to this day. Because that's what the prophet did.

And as long as this simplistic evaluation of current day conflicts and the problems arising from those is not only pursued but propagandistically peddled by certain interested parties, the actual issues find no address whatsoever.

When one is too lazy (or perhaps too intellectually over-challenged or both) to research, analyse and finally identify the complexities of any issues, it's convenient to declare them as simple and then, seeing how it's the most simplistic method of solution, look for one explanation only and then and thus absolve oneself of any further effort.

Not unlike a police detective making up his or her mind who's guilty alone on emotion and then spending all available energy of finding proof that the supposed culprit seems to lead to, rather than the other way round as it should be among professionals.

Often enough, as can be seen countless times on these forums, even resorting to fabricating it if deemed necessary.
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

Those are interesting scriptural references, no question. It doesn't actually say "rape" per se, but only outlines with whom you may or may not engage in sexual relations. Wives and "those who your right hand possesses" are OK for sexual partners.

I think the treatment of today's Yazidis answers the question of whether or not captive women are sex slaves or willing participants. Also the hadith I quoted that says, "....they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them..." is pretty indicative that consent was not required.

In Muslim culture, a wife and a possession may not be all that different.

How true. Here is what verse 2:223 says of wives and sex from the 3 most quoted and trusted translators of the Qur'an:

Shakir - Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like
Pickthall - Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will
Yusuf Ali - Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will

If we really have in this world a billion and a half people who base their morality on ancient writings, then no wonder the Middle East is such a mess.

I spent 7 years in Egypt, and the most outstanding recollection I have of Egyptians is the degree to which Islam is the center of their universe. Cubicle walls were decorated with at least as many quotes from the Qur'an as with family pictures. Every polite saying and greeting was sprinkled with alhumdulillah's and inshahallah's. Westerners make the mistake of assuming there are just as many Friday Muslims as there are Sunday Christians.

On the other side, basing one's morality on the writings of the Old Testament wouldn't work terribly well in the modern world either. It's just that most Christians don't take those ancient writings quite so seriously.

True, but a lot of Christians (most that I know) are much more observant of the NT than the OT. Jesus (if you believe he existed) came along and undid much of the crap in the OT. "Stone your disobedient sons" turned into "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Islam went the other direction. The non-militaristic verses came from Mohamed's first 12 years spent in Mecca. After they spurned him, he moved to Medina and used it as a base to make war on Mecca, and the verses from this period reflect the unbridled hatred he had for all things non-Islamic (read: all things non-Mohamed). If the Qur'an were compiled chronologically, this change would be easier to see.

Now, is there a solution to this problem? '

Other than extreme vigilance, sadly I can't think of one. At least one that doesn't suck the humanity out of me.
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

I think the treatment of today's Yazidis answers the question of whether or not captive women are sex slaves or willing participants. Also the hadith I quoted that says, "....they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them..." is pretty indicative that consent was not required.......~
...and here we have, not surprisingly and once again, the usual prevarication of equating Muslims and Islam in general with the conduct of IS and the perverted version of it all that it tries to sell. Your only "corroboration":roll: for that equation actually being real being your saying so.

..............~I spent 7 years in Egypt, and the most outstanding recollection I have of Egyptians is the degree to which Islam is the center of their universe. Cubicle walls were decorated with at least as many quotes from the Qur'an as with family pictures. Every polite saying and greeting was sprinkled with alhumdulillah's and inshahallah's. Westerners make the mistake of assuming there are just as many Friday Muslims as there are Sunday Christians.
and considering how little your stay there appears to have taught you alone on Egypt, it comes, I suppose, as no surprise how little you know of other countries and Muslims there. What your above anecdote serves by way of confirming the validity of your wholesale condemnation is anybody's guess.

After they spurned him,
as disingenuous a description as one comes to expect.
Other than extreme vigilance, sadly I can't think of one. At least one that doesn't suck the humanity out of me.
I can think of plenty others and I've outlined them.

But I wouldn't want to make you uncomfortable in either your narrative or your simplistic views.
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

I think the treatment of today's Yazidis answers the question of whether or not captive women are sex slaves or willing participants. Also the hadith I quoted that says, "....they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them..." is pretty indicative that consent was not required.



How true. Here is what verse 2:223 says of wives and sex from the 3 most quoted and trusted translators of the Qur'an:

Shakir - Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like
Pickthall - Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will
Yusuf Ali - Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will



I spent 7 years in Egypt, and the most outstanding recollection I have of Egyptians is the degree to which Islam is the center of their universe. Cubicle walls were decorated with at least as many quotes from the Qur'an as with family pictures. Every polite saying and greeting was sprinkled with alhumdulillah's and inshahallah's. Westerners make the mistake of assuming there are just as many Friday Muslims as there are Sunday Christians.



True, but a lot of Christians (most that I know) are much more observant of the NT than the OT. Jesus (if you believe he existed) came along and undid much of the crap in the OT. "Stone your disobedient sons" turned into "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Islam went the other direction. The non-militaristic verses came from Mohamed's first 12 years spent in Mecca. After they spurned him, he moved to Medina and used it as a base to make war on Mecca, and the verses from this period reflect the unbridled hatred he had for all things non-Islamic (read: all things non-Mohamed). If the Qur'an were compiled chronologically, this change would be easier to see.



Other than extreme vigilance, sadly I can't think of one. At least one that doesn't suck the humanity out of me.

I had to look this one up:

tilth
tilTH/
noun
noun: tilth

cultivation of land; tillage.
the condition of tilled soil, especially in respect to suitability for sowing seeds.
"he could determine whether the soil was of the right tilth"

So, in that culture, women are nothing more than fertile soil into which to plant your "seed."

Extreme vigilance is the key. We can't go out and kill all of the Muslims, nor can we convert them to the modern world.
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

I had to look this one up:



So, in that culture, women are nothing more than fertile soil into which to plant your "seed."

Extreme vigilance is the key. We can't go out and kill all of the Muslims, nor can we convert them to the modern world.

Then, the less Muslims in free societies, the better. We can do that. Europe can start.
 
Re: Europe’s terror summer: will politicians now accept the reality of Islamic terror

...and here we have, not surprisingly and once again, the usual prevarication of equating Muslims and Islam in general with the conduct of IS and the perverted version of it all that it tries to sell. Your only "corroboration":roll: for that equation actually being real being your saying so.

and considering how little your stay there appears to have taught you alone on Egypt, it comes, I suppose, as no surprise how little you know of other countries and Muslims there. What your above anecdote serves by way of confirming the validity of your wholesale condemnation is anybody's guess.

as disingenuous a description as one comes to expect.
I can think of plenty others and I've outlined them.

But I wouldn't want to make you uncomfortable in either your narrative or your simplistic views.

I think he is quite comfortable. You seem to be the one that is upset because no one buys the high minded double talk crap you offer. Simple does not mean easy. It is apparently too hard for you to accept the simplicity of actions and words of far too many Muslims and what they believe. No mystery here. Just you stretching excuses as far as you can, by implying it is mystery understood by only scholars, and yes, apologists.
 
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