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Possibility of a UK general election in the near future

Corbyn delivered 2/3 of Labour's vote to Remain. The party that numerically voted leave most was the SNP!
 
Manc Skipper said:
Corbyn delivered 2/3 of Labour's vote to Remain. The party that numerically voted leave most was the SNP!
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Really? Stats?

I agree with you that Corbyn's performance in the campaign was everything you could ask of someone with deep-seated reservations about the neo-liberal EU club, but who, on balance of factors, saw that a remain vote was the better of the two options.

What I'd like to know is where all those Labour coup figures were during the campaign, because I didn't see Hillary Benn, Angela Eagle or any of those other names that I couldn't conjure from memory, making a big impact in the remain campaign.

Let's not forget, this coup against Corbyn has been gestating for months. They always intended to try to remove Corbyn before the next election. As much was admitted on several occasions, outlined as early as the first interviews after Corbyn's landslide victory in the leadership election.

Labour must now split. The party, y'know, the people who campaign on the doorstep, do the constituency work, run local councils, drive the trades union movement, must shuffle off a deeply unimpressive, anonymous bunch of careerists, technocrats and dinosaurs and set them free to scale the heights of what Williams, Rogers, Jenkins and Owen achieved in the 1980, i.e. nothing.

If any of those coup-sters can carve out a party capable of being elected under another umbrella, good luck to them, but they don't represent the Labour movement and they'll never be able to return the Labour party to being a gentlemen's club or elitist clique as it had declined into being under Blair.

I've been unconvinced by Corby's leadership tbh. I've been waiting to hear the passion and conviction that his mandate should have given him, but if he can see off these Labour in name only, gravy-train riders, with the overwhelming support of the party and the unions, then he may make an excellent PM, and in the not-too-distant future.
 
Andalublue said:
~ I didn't see Hillary Benn, Angela Eagle or any of those other names that I couldn't conjure from memory, making a big impact in the remain campaign ~
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I watched both Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle during the campaign and Eagle for one was really poor on the big televised debates. She was part of the first team with Nicola Sturgeon against Boris J, Andrea Leadsom and Gisela Stuart.
As for Hillary and other major Labour members, there seemed to be a decision not to share the platform with David Cameron which may have had an impact but looking at the evidence of lack of engagement with those poor white areas that voted Brexit overwhelmingly, nothing short of a Farage type populist would have made a difference.

I read elsewhere some suggesting UKIP might just vanish - they won't, they have become used to huge amount of support (2-3 million at the last general election) and they are more popular with those impoverished communities in the North so I think some kind of morphing will happen and they will overtake Labour.

Andalublue said:
~ Labour must now split ~
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There's room in the middle for a centrist party, possibly made up of right wing Labour members who seem completely out of step with the membership at large and with Bremain Conservatives. I don't see that happening but that coalition could save us from this utter disaster.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I watched both Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle during the campaign and Eagle for one was really poor on the big televised debates. She was part of the first team with Nicola Sturgeon against Boris J, Andrea Leadsom and Gisela Stuart.
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Okay, fair point. I didn't see that debate.

As for Hillary and other major Labour members, there seemed to be a decision not to share the platform with David Cameron which may have had an impact but looking at the evidence of lack of engagement with those poor white areas that voted Brexit overwhelmingly, nothing short of a Farage type populist would have made a difference.
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Some of the Labour leaders decided not to share platforms with Tories, but there was no decision imposed by Corbyn or McDonnell because there were plenty of Labour figures who did share platfoms - Harriet Harman, Sadiq Khan, Eagle, Allan Johnson all did so. Those that didn't clearly made a personal decision not to do so.

I read elsewhere some suggesting UKIP might just vanish - they won't, they have become used to huge amount of support (2-3 million at the last general election) and they are more popular with those impoverished communities in the North so I think some kind of morphing will happen and they will overtake Labour.
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That could happen in the short-term, until those people in 'impoverished communities' realise that UKIP don't give a s*** about them, have the anti-poor attitudes of Thatcher at her worst, believe the NHS should be privatised, are against investment in public services and are committed to nothing except anti-immigration rhetoric. Now that their raison d'etre has been fulfilled I think their Emperor-like nakedness will be soon exposed. Of course, that's dependent on Labour pulling itself together, and that could take some time.

Here's a prediction, now that the Brexit voters are starting to regret their stupid protest vote (anyone hear Kelvin McKenzie talking about his 'buyers regret'?) and with Labour tearing itself apart, keep an eye on the Liberals to make a bit of a comeback in the West Country, Midlands and the Southeast.


There's room in the middle for a centrist party, possibly made up of right wing Labour members who seem completely out of step with the membership at large and with Bremain Conservatives. I don't see that happening but that coalition could save us from this utter disaster.
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If the Labour Party defeats the Parliamentary Labour Party in its civil war, expect to see a few of those soon-to-be-deselected coup leaders heading in that direction too. New party or a reinforcement of the Libdems? The SDP experience might well dissuade the creation of a new party IMHO.
 
It was probably the Ashcroft poll, I exaggerated slightly, it was 63% not 66. Threason I'm unsure is that I distinctly remember reading that UKIP had a 7% remain vote, and not 4% (which in itself is ridiculous in a party whose very reason for existence is supposedly leaving!)


LR-by-party.jpg


How the United Kingdom voted on Thursday... and why - Lord Ashcroft Polls
 
Andalublue said:
Okay, fair point. I didn't see that debate.
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I'll try and find a link if you want - she was really poor and the Conservative Andrea Leadsom SHOUTED at Boris all the way through.

Andalublue said:
That could happen in the short-term, until those people in 'impoverished communities' realise that UKIP don't give a s*** about them, have the anti-poor attitudes of Thatcher at her worst, believe the NHS should be privatised, are against investment in public services and are committed to nothing except anti-immigration rhetoric. Now that their raison d'etre has been fulfilled I think their Emperor-like nakedness will be soon exposed. Of course, that's dependent on Labour pulling itself together, and that could take some time.
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I have a feeling UKIP will morph and suit whatever those angry white voters want to say. I can see them (under Farage) becoming quite populist.

It really comes down to how Labour deal with this - Corbyn wasn't hugely pro Europe but some Brexit Labour people seemed still support him. An old friend of mine who is both Labour and Brexit stated - "Labour is a work in progress, the country isn't" which is why he was prepared to abandon the Labour platform in the referendum.

Andalublue said:
Here's a prediction, now that the Brexit voters are starting to regret their stupid protest vote (anyone hear Kelvin McKenzie talking about his 'buyers regret'?
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Hahahahaha!
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I'll try and find a link if you want - she was really poor and the Conservative Andrea Leadsom SHOUTED at Boris all the way through.
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Please don't bother. I've heard as much of that bollocks as I can stomach. Eagle's never been a good public speaker, she's not eloquent and her voice makes everything she says sound like a whine. Apparently she's a good manager and behind-the-scenes motivator though. I guess she must have some value.

I have a feeling UKIP will morph and suit whatever those angry white voters want to say. I can see them (under Farage) becoming quite populist.
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Becoming quite populist? What else have they ever been?

It really comes down to how Labour deal with this - Corbyn wasn't hugely pro Europe but some Brexit Labour people seemed still support him. An old friend of mine who is both Labour and Brexit stated - "Labour is a work in progress, the country isn't" which is why he was prepared to abandon the Labour platform in the referendum.
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In the space of 5 days the Brexit position has gone from 'out now', to 'wait until Cameron goes' to 'not before the end of the year'. I've not seen so much back-pedalling since Lance Armstrong stopped being the greatest cyclist of all time.

Hahahahaha!
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That was my reaction.
 
Manc Skipper said:
It was probably the Ashcroft poll, I exaggerated slightly, it was 63% not 66. Threason I'm unsure is that I distinctly remember reading that UKIP had a 7% remain vote, and not 4% (which in itself is ridiculous in a party whose very reason for existence is supposedly leaving!)


LR-by-party.jpg


How the United Kingdom voted on Thursday... and why - Lord Ashcroft Polls
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Sorry Manc, but you said "The party that numerically voted leave most was the SNP!" Seems to me that UKIP voted 'leave' by 96-4% SNP voted 'remain' by 64-36% How is that 'numerically voting leave most'?
 
Chagos said:
Surprise, surprise.

Not.
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Quite. All those people who voted to kick the establishment in the stones discover that they're getting exactly what made them want to rebel in the first place.
 
Andalublue said:
Here we go. Now we see the real consequence of that vote for all those people in poor regions of the country.

Brexit: George Osborne says tax rises and spending cuts needed - BBC News
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Yeah but who listens to experts anyway? Certainly not Boris, Andrea and Gisela - they told us to take back control several times and not worry about financial predictions...

You seen this today?

German MEP Christian Ehler, a member of Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat Party, says there is "no other way" for the UK to start negotiations other than by triggering Article 50.

There will be "no back door" and no informal negotiations, he tells The World at One.

He suggests that the UK cannot be "Switzerland with nukes and a global perspective", adding: "We are going to expel Switzerland at the beginning of the next year from all of the European programmes" because the Swiss people rejected freedom of movement in a recent referendum.
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That possible expulsion will be more grist to the mill when we start negotiations on Article 50...
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Yeah but who listens to experts anyway? Certainly not Boris, Andrea and Gisela - they told us to take back control several times and not worry about financial predictions...

You seen this today?



That possible expulsion will be more grist to the mill when we start negotiations on Article 50...
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Thing is IC, Gove gave several interviews during the campaign in which he said that we would not remain in the single market, but adopt a different trade model. Naturally, he failed to specify which model. We are being invited to believe two impossible things before lunchtime:

1. That Brexiting means stopping free movement of EU citizens into the UK, and...
2. Trading as normal, because 'the EU needs us more than we need them', without any major negative consequences for our economy.

We know that #1 is only possible outside of the single market, and that #2 is only possible within it.
 
Andalublue said:
Thing is IC, Gove gave several interviews during the campaign in which he said that we would not remain in the single market, but adopt a different trade model. Naturally, he failed to specify which model. We are being invited to believe two impossible things before lunchtime:

1. That Brexiting means stopping free movement of EU citizens into the UK, and...
2. Trading as normal, because 'the EU needs us more than we need them', without any major negative consequences for our economy.

We know that #1 is only possible outside of the single market, and that #2 is only possible within it.
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And that was the crux of the matter, all through the hideous campaign.
 
Carjosse said:
Because this has shaken the British political climate, and a vote may be called in order to regain the mandate of the people.
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Didnt they just hold a vote which expressed the mandate of 'the people'?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Yeah but who listens to experts anyway? Certainly not Boris, Andrea and Gisela - they told us to take back control several times and not worry about financial predictions...

You seen this today?



That possible expulsion will be more grist to the mill when we start negotiations on Article 50...
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So the British voting public are morons, and the EU leaders are children that respond with tantrums if member states dont shut up and go along with everything forced upon them by the EU?
 
VanceMack said:
Didnt they just hold a vote which expressed the mandate of 'the people'?
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No, that was a referendum. In the Westminster system of government it is common after an event like this for a government even if they hold a majority to call an election in order to regain the confidence of the people in their government.
 
VanceMack said:
So the British voting public are morons, and the EU leaders are children that respond with tantrums if member states dont shut up and go along with everything forced upon them by the EU?
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More like they were misled.
 
VanceMack said:
So the British voting public are morons, and the EU leaders are children that respond with tantrums if member states dont shut up and go along with everything forced upon them by the EU?
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VanceMack said:
The irony is I am agreeing with you. Your country is full of morons that don't know what they voted on. First they voted as morons, now they cry victim status. THATS why Churchill would be so ashamed.
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I think you've outworn my interest in trying to explain things to you. This is a debate site, not a cheap insult site. At least you weren't trying to bring Obama, Trump, muslims or your other peccadilloes into this thread.

Hope you enjoy one way conversations from here on in.
 
VanceMack said:
Didnt they just hold a vote which expressed the mandate of 'the people'?
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Yes it did and it was not what the PM wanted. So he has lost his mandate which in effect requires a new election
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes it did and it was not what the PM wanted. So he has lost his mandate which in effect requires a new election
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Really? There isnt a line of succession in case of death, impeachment, or a childish tantrum?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I think you've outworn my interest in trying to explain things to you. This is a debate site, not a cheap insult site. At least you weren't trying to bring Obama, Trump, muslims or your other peccadilloes into this thread.

Hope you enjoy one way conversations from here on in.
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Woah. I'm not insulting anyone. How is agreeing with you insulting you? Or anyone else for that matter?
 
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