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There might be a few exploding heads on Thursday for mayor Sadiq Khan

PeteEU said:
As you pointed out (think it was you), the Tories and their cohorts have been pushing race and religion differences during the London election...
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That's because they have very little else they can use. They have a billionaire candidate who is clearly out of his depth and out of his comfort zone having to relate to ordinary people on the campaign trail. Check out his toe-curling response when claiming to be a big Bollywood fan and then being asked to name a single film or star.



The Tories are also having to defend a record of running London that is a lot less popular than the Johnson-loving media would have you believe. For example, more than twice as many Londoners would NOT trust Johnson on tax dodging and tax avoidance than would trust him. Clearly, he might be fun on a photo-shoot, but not suitable for high office. Even his City mates at the International Business Times can't bring themselves to give him better than a C.

With the Tories split down the middle on the EU, Cameron's ratings in the toilet (if you listen to the media, who would guess that Cameron's personal ratings are below those of Jeremy Corbyn?) and Khan looking like a shoo-in, of course they're going to use increasingly desperate tactics - as IC's clip attests.
 
Peter King said:
Because with just a few days to go until the polling, an opinion poll has shown that Sadiq Khan, the Muslim mayoral candidate for the Labour party in the UK is leading the 8 other candidates with 20 points.

London Mayor Election Polls 2016: Labour Candidate Sadiq Khan Leads Ahead Of Thursday Voting

Khan is the Muslim son of a Pakistani bus driver who grew up in public housing. He became a human rights lawyer and eventually a politician for the Labour Party. His main rival is Zac Goldsmith, the son of a billionaire who was kicked out of Eton for having pot in his room and not having gone to further education. He became a journalist and then a Conservative MP.

I fear some heads are going to explode from anger (maybe Farrage, Geert Wilders, LePen as well as some here LOL) when the biggest Western capital city is going to be run by a Muslim.
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Maybe so, but the reality is, few people care about qualified Moslems holding political office, A moslem who agrees with my politics and isn't an extremist will get my vote.

Which is a separate issue from bringing in millions of low educated moslems from a war zone who hold sympathies with extremists.
 
Orly? said:
Religion dictates political views..
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What religion did Leo Tolstoy, Oscar Romero and Francisco Franco have in common? do you not notice a significant divergence in their views?
 
Andalublue said:
He does not call 'moderate Muslims' Uncle Toms ~ He used the expression, possibly inadvisedly ~
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C'mon Andy. Apply the Nick Griffin test, if he'd said that there would be true uproar and you'd be among the first calling for him to stand down from his campaign.

Andalublue said:
~ "you can't pick and choose who you speak to", i.e. you have to speak to everyone, good or bad. I think you're doing a bit of Lynton Crosby's work for him there, IC ~
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Sorry, deplorable words are deplorable words whether they are said by a white guy or a brown guy; whether muslim, christian, atheist or jew and certainly not someone whose judgement is going to be important when running one of the world's major cities.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
C'mon Andy. Apply the Nick Griffin test, if he'd said that there would be true uproar and you'd be among the first calling for him to stand down from his campaign.
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What absolute nonsense. I thought it was the left who liked to play the PC card and language police. He clearly wasn't referring to moderate Muslims as 'Uncle Toms' since he clearly is one and has the fatwas against him for opposing the radicals, supporting SSM and encouraging integration.



Sorry, deplorable words are deplorable words whether they are said by a white guy or a brown guy; whether muslim, christian, atheist or jew and certainly not someone whose judgement is going to be important when running one of the world's major cities.
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Deplorable? It's hardly in the same league as 'swarms of migrants', is it? How about: "people in Liverpool cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance about the rest of society"?

Does the use of the words 'Uncle Toms', referring to no specific individuals or groups, really count as 'deplorable'? Are you saying that no such people could possibly exist?

Sorry IC, I think you're getting as hysterical as the Tory press.
 
Andalublue said:
What absolute nonsense. I thought it was the left who liked to play the PC card and language police. He clearly wasn't referring to moderate Muslims as 'Uncle Toms' since he clearly is one and has the fatwas against him for opposing the radicals, supporting SSM and encouraging integration.
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You're happy with the general use of the phrase then? He was a few days ago branding the words as unacceptable until the footage of himself uttering them came out.

Andalublue said:
~ Deplorable? It's hardly in the same league as 'swarms of migrants', is it? How about: "people in Liverpool cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance about the rest of society"?

Does the use of the words 'Uncle Toms', referring to no specific individuals or groups, really count as 'deplorable'? Are you saying that no such people could possibly exist?
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I can accept Cameron's use of the phrase "swarm of migrants" was deplorable because I'm not tied in to defending him no matter what Andy. I'm comfortable with stepping away from someone I may otherwise support when they use language they shouldn't.

Anyway - what's more important is the sentiment behind those words, especially as a muslim when we have the security concerns we do. You always see stupid idiots from overseas saying "where are the moderate muslims condemning terrorism etc?" and then those muslims who may be integrating here are called "uncle toms" for being moderate, integrating muslims.

Maybe you don't understand the connotations of the phrase Andy? You DO know what an uncle tom was supposed to be? It's not just some meaningless slur you know.

Andalublue said:
~ Sorry IC, I think you're getting as hysterical as the Tory press.
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So why was the man you admire so much saying those words were unacceptable when he felt someone else had used them? Was Sadiq Khan being "as hysterical as the Tory Press" when he was calling out others for using those words?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You're happy with the general use of the phrase then?
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It depends entirely on to whom it's applied.
[/B]

I can accept Cameron's use of the phrase "swarm of migrants" was deplorable because I'm not tied in to defending him no matter what Andy. I'm comfortable with stepping away from someone I may otherwise support when they use language they shouldn't.
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So, what consequences do you believe should result from the use of what you describe as 'deplorable language'?

Anyway - what's more important is the sentiment behind those words, especially as a muslim when we have the security concerns we do. You always see stupid idiots from overseas saying "where are the moderate muslims condemning terrorism etc?" and then those muslims who may be integrating here are called "uncle toms" for being moderate, integrating muslims.

Maybe you don't understand the connotations of the phrase Andy? You DO know what an uncle tom was supposed to be? It's not just some meaningless slur you know.
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I'm fully aware of the connotations and origins of the phrase, and had Sadiq Khan been using it to refer to 'moderate' Muslims, y'know, the people like him who support integration, oppose extremism and Islamism, support gay marriage etc, then I'd have a very different reaction, but that's not who he referred to. Go back and watch the soundbite you're getting all het up about and see.

So why was the man you admire so much saying those words were unacceptable when he felt someone else had used them? Was Sadiq Khan being "as hysterical as the Tory Press" when he was calling out others for using those words?
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It all depends on who was being talked about. Look at the clip. Had he written what he said in that interview there would undoubtedly have been inverted commas around 'Uncle Toms', yet you seem determined to see a life-long moderate as a jihadi in disguise.
 
Andalublue said:
It depends entirely on to whom it's applied ~
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Hahaha!

Andalublue said:
~ you seem determined to see a life-long moderate as a jihadi in disguise. ~
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Nowhere have I said he's a jihadi Andy. I'm no fan of tessa Jowell but I would have preferred someone nearer the centre. Considering your political lean, Khan would look moderate to you, but not to me.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Nowhere have I said he's a jihadi Andy. I'm no fan of tessa Jowell but I would have preferred someone nearer the centre. Considering your political lean, Khan would look moderate to you, but not to me.
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On what issues do you think he's anything other than middle-of-the-road, Blairite Labour? As far as someone of the order of Tessa Jowell goes, I'd prefer someone with fewer connections to Silvio Berlusconi.
 
Andalublue said:
On what issues do you think he's anything other than middle-of-the-road, Blairite Labour? As far as someone of the order of Tessa Jowell goes, I'd prefer someone with fewer connections to Silvio Berlusconi.
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I had to chuckle there, Andy, when have you suggested anything to do with Blair as "middle of the road" :lol:
 
gunner said:
I had to chuckle there, Andy, when have you suggested anything to do with Blair as "middle of the road" :lol:
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That's a very fair point, Paul. Khan's definitely a bit too centrist (i.e. right-wing) for my taste, but to pretend he's some kind of George Galloway, crypto-Anjem Choudary for dropping an unspecified reference to Uncle Toms into an interview is taking paranoia to new levels. Using words like 'deplorable' devalues them for when someone comes along and does something really deplorable.

I hope he wins tonight, since I really dislike Goldsmith and the divisive and bigoted campaign he's run. I think Khan will make a good mayor, especially in comparison with the do-nothing, absentee administration of Johnson. I also hope, given the significant position he'll be taking up within the Labour Party, that he doesn't just add to the internal party bickering, but gets on and does something useful and meaningful in London.
 
I think Sadiq Khan will win.

If anything, I'd rather it be a message and a lesson to those who are trying to use dirty tactics during the campaign. I think Londoners saw through that
 
Congratulations to the new Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, having overcome a Tory campaign of fear bigotry and racism. Congratulations too to the voters who chose him.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Congratulations to the new Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, having overcome a Tory campaign of fear bigotry and racism. Congratulations too to the voters who chose him.
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Seconded.
 
Andalublue said:
That's a very fair point, Paul. Khan's definitely a bit too centrist (i.e. right-wing) for my taste, but to pretend he's some kind of George Galloway, crypto-Anjem Choudary for dropping an unspecified reference to Uncle Toms into an interview is taking paranoia to new levels. Using words like 'deplorable' devalues them for when someone comes along and does something really deplorable.
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[/Sigh]

Andy, you're taking my dislike of his poor use of words far too personally. Nowhere did I imply he was Anjem Choudary or anywhere near: what I am worried about is his judgement for choosing such words and the message he is also implying by using that very specific term; especially when muslims are under pressure to demonstrate that they are integrating and trying to do well in the UK.

I have not implied either that I like Goldsmith - I actually admire Ruth Davidson (the very Nicola Sturgeon's Conservative opponent in the Scottish elections) and would really like to see ordinary Conservative members like her rise to the top in Scotland or England that don't come from Eton or have millionaire parents who can pay their offspring's way to the top.
 
Ruth Davidson is brilliant, but show me another Conservative kickboxer out and proud lesbian!
 
Manc Skipper said:
Ruth Davidson is brilliant, but show me another Conservative kickboxer out and proud lesbian!
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Too easy.. Jen Wilson. I hope Jen Wilson helps to shift attitudes in her native Ireland too.

Well, I'm probably wrong about Jen Wilson's kickboxing but any lesbian Conservative Leader who hasn't shoved their private parts up a pig wins my vote.
 
London has fallen.

6 months -- UKIP's ranks will be double.
 
Before anyone says it, I'm embarrassed as a conservative that Lynton Crosby has been knighted, I'm as perplexed as Zac Goldsmith's own sister at the nature of the Conservative campaign which resembled something Nick Griffin would have been proud of and I hope Cameron learns that "Project Fear" is not the way to go.

Several senior conservatives have also stated concern about the way the campaign was run, reasoned heads need to be listened to.

ChezC3 said:
London has fallen.

6 months -- UKIP's ranks will be double.
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What is it about Khan's election you feel will double the number of UKIP members?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
What is it about Khan's election you feel will double the number of UKIP members?
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Who do you think there is to thank for a Donald Trump candidacy?

They're already making in-roads.

Have you read Khan's platform?

Think all them new flats are gonna be filled with Brownlee Bros.?
 
ChezC3 said:
Who do you think there is to thank for a Donald Trump candidacy?

They're already making in-roads.

Have you read Khan's platform?

Think all them new flats are gonna be filled with Brownlee Bros.?
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Simple question, I'll repeat it: "What is it about Khan's election you feel will double the number of UKIP members?"
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Simple question, I'll repeat it: "What is it about Khan's election you feel will double the number of UKIP members?"
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Yes it was a simple question. I can't dumb down the answer any more. You'll simply have to figure it out on your own or phone a friend.
 
ChezC3 said:
Yes it was a simple question. I can't dumb down the answer any more. You'll simply have to figure it out on your own or phone a friend.
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All this because you can't answer honestly?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Simple question, I'll repeat it: "What is it about Khan's election you feel will double the number of UKIP members?"
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That is so obvious it hurts. Of course, long term the influence of a Muslim Lord Mayor might be quite positive. Short term it is potent ammunition for xenophobic parties throughout Europe.
 
joG said:
That is so obvious it hurts.
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SO how does that fit with UKIP's policies on expanding trade and links with the commonwealth? The problem is the common or garden UKIP voter who moved over from supporting the BNP is not very familiar with UKIP's policies and if there is a race based element in membership or support for what our Swedish American friend supports then Zac Goldsmith's openly racist campaign would have won.

So obvious it hurts.
 
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