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Hollande Cancels Plan to Strip Citizenship in Terrorism Cases

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TheDemSocialist

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PARIS — President François Hollande announced on Wednesday that he was withdrawing a proposal to strip French citizenship from dual nationals convicted of terrorism, ending a monthslong debate that convulsed his governing Socialist Party, dominated political discussion after the November terrorist attacks, and led to the resignation of the justice minister.
The idea, originally endorsed by right-wing parties and then adopted by Mr. Hollande three days after the deadly attacks on Nov. 13, provoked furious opposition on the left in France, even though all sides agreed it was largely symbolic and would have little practical effect in combating terrorism.
But the proposal highlighted a growing split among the Socialists between those who favored a tough law-and-order approach in the wake of the attacks that killed 130 people, and those worried that the government would be impinging on civil liberties.
Critics on Mr. Hollande’s left complained that the original idea would create two classes of citizens, saying it recalled the dark days of the World War II collaborationist government in France, which rendered hundreds of Jews stateless.
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Read more @: Hollande Cancels Plan to Strip Citizenship in Terrorism Cases

I think this was a good call from the French president. This law could easily lead to a slippery slope and infringe on individuals civil liberties. Fear often leads to irrational acts and I believe this is one of them, Im glad to see the French president is looking for a way to avoid these acts.
 
So terrorists are allowed to keep their citizenship still? You think this is good?
 
PakPuk said:
So terrorists are allowed to keep their citizenship still? You think this is good?
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attempts to cheapen citizenship should be blocked.

There's no reason a citizen who breaks the law can't be held accountable by their host country, terrorists are criminals, and even criminals have rights to whatever extent that nation decides.

Citizenship stripping is a bad road to go down...
 
Good call. At the moment, it's still quite difficult just to get a cohesive, legally exacting DEFINITION of terrorism.

A single act of murder could be terrorism, or it could just be murder. An explosion, fire, or some other act of wanton violence could ALSO be terrorism, or it could just be arson.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Hollande Cancels Plan to Strip Citizenship in Terrorism Cases

I think this was a good call from the French president. This law could easily lead to a slippery slope and infringe on individuals civil liberties. Fear often leads to irrational acts and I believe this is one of them, Im glad to see the French president is looking for a way to avoid these acts. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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The proposal from Hollande was purely symbolic anyway - I doubt the French would really have enforced this. I am very much in support of the British powers and use of citizenship removal as one of the weapons against returning jihadis (it has also been used against others who weren't jihadi)

The measure – known as the “loss of nationality” plan – was to be written into the constitution next month.

The move, which the government had admitted was purely symbolic, was seen by critics on the left, such as Taubira, as having the dangerous side-effect of sending a message that French citizens could be divided into two categories – with those who were “pure” French worth more than those with mixed backgrounds.

Taubira had repeatedly criticised the measure in public as pointless, and of “absolutely pathetic inefficiency”, warning that it attacked an “important pillar” of French citizenship and identity. Link.
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I don't see a dangerous side effect here where we split British citizens into the arbitrary choice of being "pure British" and "mixed British." The granting of citizenship usually has the caveat of a promise or acceptance by the person receiving citizenship so there should be a penalty if the person then decides to be disloyal and break the grounds of the agreement made when accepting citizenship.

Mind you - it's hard to find an example of any kind of oath people make when becoming French citizens - whereas in the UK, you do swear an oath which is the promise you break by going off to fight against UK interests abroad as a dual national.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
The proposal from Hollande was purely symbolic anyway - I doubt the French would really have enforced this. I am very much in support of the British powers and use of citizenship removal as one of the weapons against returning jihadis (it has also been used against others who weren't jihadi)
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Like all countries with a written and firmly embedded constitution, France and its people is/are loath to change it in any manner. Hollande's law would have necessitated that in any case.

I don't see a dangerous side effect here where we split British citizens into the arbitrary choice of being "pure British" and "mixed British." The granting of citizenship usually has the caveat of a promise or acceptance by the person receiving citizenship so there should be a penalty if the person then decides to be disloyal and break the grounds of the agreement made when accepting citizenship.

Mind you - it's hard to find an example of any kind of oath people make when becoming French citizens - whereas in the UK, you do swear an oath which is the promise you break by going off to fight against UK interests abroad as a dual national.
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as regards what I bolded, that's because France has no such oath.
 
Chagos said:
Like all countries with a written and firmly embedded constitution, France and its people is/are loath to change it in any manner. Hollande's law would have necessitated that in any case.
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Yes, I can see why he would drop the plan as he would have gone through all manner of steps but without creating anything actually useful.

Chagos said:
as regards what I bolded, that's because France has no such oath.
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Thanks. I can see though that a greater expectation should be placed on people who get granted the gift of citizenship.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Yes, I can see why he would drop the plan as he would have gone through all manner of steps but without creating anything actually useful.

Thanks. I can see though that a greater expectation should be placed on people who get granted the gift of citizenship.
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d'accord.

Seems (from what I can garner) that in the EU only UK, Hungary, Romania, Italy and Germany have any such oath or, at least, a pledge. But I may have missed the one or other.
 
In other words, if you commit an act of terrorism in France, if your a French citizen, you still get the privileges of French citizens despite trying to destroy France and the west in general.

Good job France.
 
Tigerace117 said:
In other words, if you commit an act of terrorism in France, if your a French citizen, you still get the privileges of French citizens despite trying to destroy France and the west in general.

Good job France.
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Not quite, more like - "if you're a dual national citizen in France, you still get the privileges of French citizens despite trying to destroy France and the west in general."
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Not quite, more like - "if you're a dual national citizen in France, you still get the privileges of French citizens despite trying to destroy France and the west in general."
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Still bad.....
 
Tigerace117 said:
Still bad.....
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I don't disagree. The French should have a mechanism to remove citizenship of dual nationals who show they are hostile to their new nation. Granting of citizenship should not be a one way irreversible process.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Hollande Cancels Plan to Strip Citizenship in Terrorism Cases

I think this was a good call from the French president. This law could easily lead to a slippery slope and infringe on individuals civil liberties. Fear often leads to irrational acts and I believe this is one of them, Im glad to see the French president is looking for a way to avoid these acts. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Agreed. That law would have opened a whole can of worms that should never be opened again.
 
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