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Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threat

Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Sooner we leave the EU the better. Ignore project fear.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Abbazorkzog said:
What would Spain have to gain from annexing Gibraltar?
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IMHO nothing much. Nor is any such attempt at annexation likely.
Why would they escalate tensions between their country and the UK over the latter leaving the EU?
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What was posited (by Spanish Foreign Minister García-Margallo) was that a re-shuffling of handling the border could happen towards Gib, once it would no longer be part of the EU and thus Spain could deal with it without referring to Bruxelles. Spain having agreed the EU obligation that every member state having a border with none-EU countries has the responsibility of protecting that border with the "exterior". What was mentioned is that Spain could close the border. Beyond which "driving Gib. to collapse" was never expressed.

Note also that the inference of squashing the free passage of goods (except those from and to the UK) is rather silly. There is no free passage even now and never was, Gib being excluded from the customs union at all times.
What does Spain have to gain by being a lapdog for the EU?
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why would this current rattling of rather tinny sabres (which rattle nowhere near as much as the article in the OP implies) make Spain a lapdog?

The whole Gib issue isn't brought up to please anyone in the EU, it's been a thorn in Spain's side ever since 1704. In fact Spain's EU membership played a primary role in Spain opening the border (that had been closed completely for 16 years, much to the annoyance of many in Spain).
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
I believe you will find that Spain had on a number of occasions attempted to get Gibraltar even while UK, Spain, and Gibraltar were in the EU. This is nothing knew just like Argentina trying to get the Falkland Islands is nothing knew with headlines showing Argentina is currently attempting such actions again. In any event, it was not the issue surrounding reason for posts made. See my previous post made before yours.
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define "get".

Is that like annexing it or (just) poking a finger in its eye?

I once lived on Gib, so try to keep the BS level low okay?
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

As to fear being used in this whole campaigning (pro and con), that's something I'll agree to.

With large (if not majority) factions of both sides painting Doomsday scenarios that are based primarily upon emotion and rarely on factual analysis.

As alone the OP shows here and in every other thread that's been started by him with the sole purpose of Brexit campaigning.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
[/snip]
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There's really no need to discredit you any further, what with you by now doing such a fine job yourself.

I've snipped the text on account of blather control (for blather read non-sequitur, strawman arguments, appeal to popularity, false dichotomy etc...............to name just some).
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Chagos said:
As to fear being used in this whole campaigning (pro and con), that's something I'll agree to.

With large (if not majority) factions of both sides painting Doomsday scenarios that are based primarily upon emotion and rarely on factual analysis.

As alone the OP shows here and in every other thread that's been started by him with the sole purpose of Brexit campaigning.
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It appears we actually agree on something with exception of last sentence. I think you need to put a little more thought into that bit. :)
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

So, as asked before in regard to
I believe you will find that Spain had on a number of occasions attempted to get Gibraltar even while UK, Spain, and Gibraltar were in the EU.
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what does "get" signify and when did that happen?
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Chagos said:
So, as asked before in regard to what does "get" signify and when did that happen?
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In 1713, the Kingdom of Castile ceded to "the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar" forever.

That handover, part of the Treaty of Utrecht, has been a thorn in the side of relations between Britain and Spain ever since.

Even though the vast majority of Gibraltarians feel they have their own identity, the Spanish still believe they have a claim to the area they call ‘El Peñon’.
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I believe this answers the question, though I believe even here the reasons why would vary. However, the point is that there are those in Spain who still believe they have a claim. As with anything, the issue is debateable. I would further add that Spain had made a number of attempts over the years to regain there claim of Gibraltar, and within this context get signifies that point.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
I believe this answers the question, though I believe even here the reasons why would vary. However, the point is that there are those in Spain who still believe they have a claim. As with anything, the issue is debateable. I would further add that Spain had made a number of attempts over the years to regain there claim of Gibraltar, and within this context get signifies that point.
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So..........

were those attempts at regaining their claim made while (since) Spain, UK and Gib are (were) in the same EU and, if so, what did they consist of specifically?

Note the fact that most Spaniards thinking it to be their rock is not the issue here, I'm asking about actions undertaken, if any.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Chagos said:
So..........

were those attempts at regaining their claim made while (since) Spain, UK and Gib are (were) in the same EU and, if so, what did they consist of specifically?

Note the fact that most Spaniards thinking it to be their rock is not the issue here, I'm asking about actions undertaken, if any.
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2013 — Disagreements between Spain and the United Kingdom Government re-surfaced in July 2013, initially after the Gibraltar Government placed a number of concrete blocks in the sea off the coast of Gibraltar, intending to form an artificial reef. The Spanish Government protested however stating that it had a negative impact on fishing in the area, restricting access for Spanish fishing vessels. At the end of July the Spanish Government introduced extra border checks for people going in and out of the territory into Spain. The British Government protested as the checks were causing major delays of up to seven hours while people waited to cross the border, and on 2 August the Spanish Ambassador was summoned to the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London to discuss these developments.[83]

On 2 August 2013, Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Garcia-Margallo gave an interview to ABC newspaper in Spain. He announced possible plans to introduce a 50 euro border crossing fee for people going to and from Gibraltar, in response to the creation of the artificial Reef. Plans to close Spanish airspace to Gibraltar bound flights were also reported, as were plans for an investigation by Spanish tax authorities into property owned by around 6,000 Gibraltarians in neighbouring parts of Spain. The Spanish Foreign Minister also mooted plans to changes in the law meaning British online gaming companies based in Gibraltar would have to base servers in Spain, meaning that they would come under Madrid's tax regime.

The British Foreign office responded to these comments : "The prime minister has made clear that the UK government will meet its constitutional commitments to the people of Gibraltar and will not compromise on sovereignty,"
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Not sure what you are trying to prove here, and the above was extracted with quick search with regard some history on issues involving Spain, UK, and Gibraltar. I would further add, I fail to understand why you would have me post anything on issue that you could have obtained yourself. This is all history, on the net, and in public domain.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
Not sure what you are trying to prove here, and the above was extracted with quick search with regard some history on issues involving Spain, UK, and Gibraltar. I would further add, I fail to understand why you would have me post anything on issue that you could have obtained yourself. This is all history, on the net, and in public domain.
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Well, your preponderance with the net is your affair, I know most of these things from first hand observation.

What escapes me is where Spain attempted to regain Gib.

Which is what I asked about.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
First France, and now Spain. Ever get the feeling that despite all the negatives about UK other member states do NOT want UK to leave? :roll:

France is already facing calls from its own voters to have their own referendum on EU membership, and they are not alone. There are even such calls from German voters for same thing, and I started threads here on those very points.

Eurosceptism is growing throughout Europe, and the fear is that should UK leave other member states will follow. A very real and distinct possibility.
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A bunch of great wobbly, Express bollocks. Just too easy to ridicule. From the article:
Spain has used the possibility of a Brexit to escalate their long-standing anger over the disputed peninsula with a stunning threat to cut the territory adrift.

The country’s government views the Rock as a territory under “illegal occupation” and could exploit the EU referendum as a chance to get revenge over Gibraltar.
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The Express clearly hasn't been following the news, because Spain hasn't had a government since December 22nd 2015, so who is it making these threats?
A senior Spanish official has warned that the country could tear up its obligations to Gibraltar and even close the border with the Rock if Britain leaves the European Union.
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Which 'senior Spanish official' has been making these statements? The Express doesn't seem to know or, perhaps, they've just invented one.
But, now a Spanish source has revealed “if Brexit happened, it would change our obligations to Gibraltar".
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Nope, still no real person mentioned.
Spain is Gibralator's only land access to Europe and more than 10,000 people make the crossing daily from Spain to work.
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Apparently The Express doesn't even know the name of the colony we're discussing. 'Gibralator'??? What a professional journalistic outlet we're dealing with here!

Yet apparently Phoenix wants us to take this new 'threat' really seriously.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Chagos said:
Well, your preponderance with the net is your affair, I know most of these things from first hand observation.

What escapes me is where Spain attempted to regain Gib.

Which is what I asked about.
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No offence, but your observation abilities appear to be lacking. You really should had quit while you were ahead. Note following:


Bossano tells UN Seminar Spain's claim to Gibraltar is "nonsense"

The Minister for Economic Development, Joe Bossano, has described Spain's sovereignty claim to Gibraltar as "nonsense" and asked the United Nations' Committee of 24 to reject it. Speaking at a C24 Seminar in Nicaragua, he said the Committee should instruct the Spanish government that it must respect the UN Charter, which declares that the interests of the inhabitants of non-self-governing territories are paramount.

Mr Bossano was fiercely critical of the Committee for submitting what he described as a misleading, incorrect and untransparent report on last year's Seminar held in Fiji, and he urged it to put the record straight in this year's report. He also challenged anyone who had anything to say about Gibraltar to say it at the Seminar, where he would have the right of reply, and be able to defend his people's interests.

The full text of Joe Bossano's address is reproduced below.

GBC - Gibraltar News - GBC TV and Radio Gibraltar
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Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Government of Spain should be left in no doubt that they will never, ever, get their hands on our Rock.

See previous post for link.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
Government of Spain should be left in no doubt that they will never, ever, get their hands on our Rock.

See previous post for link.
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You can keep the rock, just give back the land that you stole... the football stadium and airport land :)
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
[/snipped for relevance control]
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.........the question remains where and how Spain tried to regain Gib. during the membership of both (and Britain) in the EU.

You have not answered it and your link doesn't address it either.
 
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Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Andalublue said:
A bunch of great wobbly, Express bollocks. Just too easy to ridicule. From the article:
The Express clearly hasn't been following the news, because Spain hasn't had a government since December 22nd 2015, so who is it making these threats?
Which 'senior Spanish official' has been making these statements? The Express doesn't seem to know or, perhaps, they've just invented one.
Nope, still no real person mentioned.
Apparently The Express doesn't even know the name of the colony we're discussing. 'Gibralator'??? What a professional journalistic outlet we're dealing with here!

Yet apparently Phoenix wants us to take this new 'threat' really seriously.
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Let's not confuse this with any MORE facts, seeing how the OP can't get even his own assertions into any semblance of order, let alone equip them with credibility. ;)
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

and, to pass the time, by which brilliant surfing spree (since you're constantly advising others to go surfing) did you garner this tidbit (post #58)?
In 1713, the Kingdom of Castile ceded to "the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar" forever.
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Do you consider that to be of any valid information value, let alone to be correct?

Let's see if you can actually find out what's wrong with that one. I'll advise you to surf the net, it's all out there :2razz:
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Chagos said:
.........the question remains where and how Spain tried to regain Gib. during the membership of both (and Britain) in the EU.

You have not answered it and your link doesn't address it either.
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Quote:

Government of Spain should be left in no doubt that they will never, ever, get their hands on our Rock.

Link: GBC - Gibraltar News - GBC TV and Radio Gibraltar

Unquote.


Gibraltar's future can only be decided by its present people in

accordance with Chapter 11 of the UN Charter.
Spain's tells you we are not entitled to hold sovereignty negotiations with them, only UK is.

No-one in Gibraltar wants to discuss our sovereignty with them, neither will we permit UK or anyone else to do so, or for our future to be decided by anyone other than us.

I am attaching to my presentation Article 73 for ease of reference and the resolution approved by the Socialist Party membership in Gibraltar in a general meeting earlier this week so that the delegates to this seminar and the Government of Spain should be left in no doubt that they will never, ever, get their hands on our Rock.
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The above was published on 21st May 2015, and the supplied link includes the full text of what was said with above being extracted from that text given to C24. There is more:

Britain urged to guard against Spanish attempts to advance sovereignty claim in the event of Brexit

March 17, 2016

IN FULL: GOVT SUBMISSION TO FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE

Britain urged to guard against Spanish attempts to advance sovereignty claim in the event of Brexit
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You will also find that a number of petitions had been filed in UK on that issue, but you are not interested. You never were. You are just thick, and have no interest on issue what-so-ever. I backed off to save you a bit of face, but no, you had to push it.

I supported my position, and that of publications quoted. I even supplied my own opinion, and it was an opinion, an opinion I supported with information available via number of outlets, including from Minister for Economic Development, Joe Bossano.

Now, before I log off, I will say again. I backed up my posts, and if you don't like it then that is tough. As for absurd claim of my campaigning for Brexit here, I had to laugh. If I were to campaign, I would certainly not be doing so here. I would do it in UK. Further, have you paid attention to level of views most threads get here? On Sun Site alone (prior to it shutting down) one of my threads alone attracted over 34,000 views and hundreds of posters in just a week (related to getting the British people a referendum on Lisbon Treaty). I am retired, even as activist, though I do make the odd posts on issues. I should add that I like this site. But you are a JERK.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

i can understand why the EU is mad, britain contributes 1/4th of their budget, and gets nothing in return. should britain leave, all the deadweight euronations, like spain, will have to pull some of their own bulk for a change.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
[/snipped once again]
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The question still remains unanswered.

Your posting links to what Gib submits to the Foreign Affairs committee or what petitions have been filed wrt fears of what may come or may not is just another example of your reverting to non-sequiturs when you don't want to answer. I think I pointed out your propensity for going ad-hominem most of the time as well. This, however
But you are a JERK.
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shows your ultimate self-defeat.

I (obviously) also have an opinion on who you are and what you are, but it has no place in debate and thus no place in here.
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

QuadpolarNutjob said:
i can understand why the EU is mad, britain contributes 1/4th of their budget, and gets nothing in return. should britain leave, all the deadweight euronations, like spain, will have to pull some of their own bulk for a change.
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Would you care to elaborate on that (the bolded)?
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Chagos said:
The question still remains unanswered.

This, however shows your ultimate self-defeat.
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:lamo

You are still a JERK. Night all. :)
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Thought you were logging off :roll:
 
Re: Brexit: Spain threatens to drive Gibraltar to COLLAPSE with border shutdown threa

Phoenix One UK said:
Quote:

Government of Spain should be left in no doubt that they will never, ever, get their hands on our Rock.

Link: GBC - Gibraltar News - GBC TV and Radio Gibraltar

Unquote.




The above was published on 21st May 2015, and the supplied link includes the full text of what was said with above being extracted from that text given to C24. There is more:



You will also find that a number of petitions had been filed in UK on that issue, but you are not interested. You never were. You are just thick, and have no interest on issue what-so-ever. I backed off to save you a bit of face, but no, you had to push it.

I supported my position, and that of publications quoted. I even supplied my own opinion, and it was an opinion, an opinion I supported with information available via number of outlets, including from Minister for Economic Development, Joe Bossano.

Now, before I log off, I will say again. I backed up my posts, and if you don't like it then that is tough. As for absurd claim of my campaigning for Brexit here, I had to laugh. If I were to campaign, I would certainly not be doing so here. I would do it in UK. Further, have you paid attention to level of views most threads get here? On Sun Site alone (prior to it shutting down) one of my threads alone attracted over 34,000 views and hundreds of posters in just a week (related to getting the British people a referendum on Lisbon Treaty). I am retired, even as activist, though I do make the odd posts on issues. I should add that I like this site. But you are a JERK.
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I notice you are incapable of substantiating the claim you made in your OP and in the very title of the thread that Spain is theatening a shut-down of the border in the event of Brexit. Who made the threat? Quote them.
 
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