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Orban: "EU Globalists flood Europe with hostile Immigrants"

You're wasting your breath Pete.

I'm beginning to wonder if some people think the only solution in Europe is to turn to fascist parties and tactics.

I do think there is a serious point for discussion, here, IC. I mean, there has been a general feeling for to long that anyone who dares criticise 'Asylum', 'immigrants', large movements of people' are simply being racist. That's it, no discussion, no wriggle room, you're just being alarmist and the very situation before your eyes, is NOT really happening. Some parts of the UK has changed beyond all recognition, not slightly, beyond all recognition. Now, that change is not all bad, but neither is it good for everyone. The classic for me, is when someone points out 'the different types of cuisine' we all now enjoy, as if that in and of itself is that important that we give up a host of other things, to accommodate that luxury.

Sorry, we're reaping years of the 'silent majority' being told what is best for them, even if it feels alien and uncomfortable, for them. They've had enough of being shovel fed crap, and have had no outlet for dissent. BOOM! out pop the far right, what a surprise? NOT. If you continually make people afraid of open and honest discussion (as we have done) then the opinions that'll eventually surface are, in the main, unpalatable. To my mind, we are getting what we deserve.
 
I do think there is a serious point for discussion, here, IC. I mean, there has been a general feeling for to long that anyone who dares criticise 'Asylum', 'immigrants', large movements of people' are simply being racist. That's it, no discussion, no wriggle room, you're just being alarmist and the very situation before your eyes, is NOT really happening. Some parts of the UK has changed beyond all recognition, not slightly, beyond all recognition. Now, that change is not all bad, but neither is it good for everyone. The classic for me, is when someone points out 'the different types of cuisine' we all now enjoy, as if that in and of itself is that important that we give up a host of other things, to accommodate that luxury.

Sorry, we're reaping years of the 'silent majority' being told what is best for them, even if it feels alien and uncomfortable, for them. They've had enough of being shovel fed crap, and have had no outlet for dissent. BOOM! out pop the far right, what a surprise? NOT. If you continually make people afraid of open and honest discussion (as we have done) then the opinions that'll eventually surface are, in the main, unpalatable. To my mind, we are getting what we deserve.

Boo ****ing hoo for the so called 'silent majority'.
 
Have I touched a nerve Will? :rofl

Not at all. If your answer to a fascist Hungarian revisionist that views Romania, Ukraine, Slovakia and Serbia as fair game is 'woe is me' then you have more problems than I can give you an answer to.
 
Not at all. If your answer to a fascist Hungarian revisionist that views Romania, Ukraine, Slovakia and Serbia as fair game is 'woe is me' then you have more problems than I can give you an answer to.

You know my answer was in a general sense. I'm perfectly comfortable, speaking out of step from the authoritarian left. Unlike some.
 
You know my answer was in a general sense. I'm perfectly comfortable, speaking out of step from the authoritarian left. Unlike some.

It's still 'woe is me'. The right won't own their monsters so it'll be up to the left to sort their crap out again? This isn't the left's problem, it is the centre and moderate right crying into their hankies blaming everyone else but themselves for failing to exorcise fascism. The left in the UK hasn't had any real power since 1979 so cry me a ****ing river with your whiny crap.
 
Not since 2010, when New Labour lost. A New Labour held together with Third Way politics, political correctness, which is pretty much all the different Labour wings have to hold themselves together.

And monsters? Right-wingers don't call for people to go to jail for just being rude, while sharing platforms with Hamas people.
 
~ there has been a general feeling for to long that anyone who dares criticise 'Asylum', 'immigrants', large movements of people' are simply being racist. That's it, no discussion, no wriggle room, you're just being alarmist and the very situation before your eyes, is NOT really happening ~

I get that, we are an island and there has been a large amount of change, particularly since 2000 when EU expansion opened the doors to Eastern European workers. Rapid change has caused the greatest problems as it would anywhere - some parts of the UK have had a lot of Eastern European workers arrive and change the nature of parts of the UK.


~ Some parts of the UK has changed beyond all recognition, not slightly, beyond all recognition. Now, that change is not all bad, but neither is it good for everyone. The classic for me, is when someone points out 'the different types of cuisine' we all now enjoy, as if that in and of itself is that important that we give up a host of other things, to accommodate that luxury.

Sorry, we're reaping years of the 'silent majority' being told what is best for them, even if it feels alien and uncomfortable, for them. They've had enough of being shovel fed crap, and have had no outlet for dissent. BOOM! out pop the far right, what a surprise? NOT. If you continually make people afraid of open and honest discussion (as we have done) then the opinions that'll eventually surface are, in the main, unpalatable. To my mind, we are getting what we deserve.

However (continuing on from above, while this is an island nation it also was the command centre of an empire that spanned the world. The biggest empire ever at one point and like many empires it had access or imported people as well as goods for a long time. I'm not one of those who say "you owned my country thus I'm getting some of my own back," however some of those peoples arrived here without choice and stayed. (Also without choice) Those peoples needed food, goods and produce that they were familiar with so British cuisine among other things changed. Different cultures have added to British culture and I see that as a good thing. Not that it's all one way - think about the famous story of Tikka Masala - an English take on an Indian curry for example which is now the most popular dish in the UK.

However, my comment about turning to fascism is about the large number of Americans and some Canadians who see fear and a response based on fear as the only sensible response to the current threat of jihadi islamists. On another thread - PakPuk was trying to pretend he knew nothing of Britain First and their history - I said to him there that BF, like the NF and British Union of Fascists before them tried to take the country down the route of fear in the 1930's and to join with Hitler. We did the right thing then by throwing the BUF out and they went from a fairly large street movement to a discredited organisation once we were at war with Germany.

I can't believe the UK would ever turn to fascist groups now or in future; that isn't the response to jihadi groups no matter what the American posters wish for on this forum. The internet brings out the worst in many people, they feel safe enough to say and do things they wouldn't do in public and maybe that's them being honest but equally it could just be that people let their hidden darkness come out because it is safe to do so.
I've got a lot more faith in Britain than many outsiders who think they know what we should as an Island nation do. Part of that faith comes from looking at the strengths those different races have brought to the UK and to our armed forces.
 
I know that is why I said be careful with that statistic :) Each country have different rules and time tables for acceptance of asylum. For example, Egyptians can seek asylum in Germany but not in Denmark. And I suspect that most of those getting asylum in Hungary come from "Hungarian regions", aka parts of the former Hungarian Empire or allies of them.

Interesting, the Magyars traditionally saw those conquered peoples as subhuman. One of the reasons they fitted in well with Germany in the 2nd world war. The Magyar arrival into Eastern Europe split the Slav dominated lands and peoples quite brutally so the difference in northern Slavic dialects are quite different to southern Slavic dialects.
Anyhow, I'm digressing - those former conquered peoples would (I think) possible be seen as less worthy of living in Hungary by old timers or those with very traditional views.
 
Not since 2010, when New Labour lost. A New Labour held together with Third Way politics, political correctness, which is pretty much all the different Labour wings have to hold themselves together.

And monsters? Right-wingers don't call for people to go to jail for just being rude, while sharing platforms with Hamas people.

New Labour was a result of a purge of the left, it was nowhere near left wing. Blair was and still remains a Thatcherite.

More Tu Quoque nonsense, is that all that the right has in the absence of any sense of responsibility for their own actions?

Exactly who in any particular UK party is advocating sending people to jail for 'just being rude'?
 
I get that, we are an island and there has been a large amount of change, particularly since 2000 when EU expansion opened the doors to Eastern European workers. Rapid change has caused the greatest problems as it would anywhere - some parts of the UK have had a lot of Eastern European workers arrive and change the nature of parts of the UK.




However (continuing on from above, while this is an island nation it also was the command centre of an empire that spanned the world. The biggest empire ever at one point and like many empires it had access or imported people as well as goods for a long time. I'm not one of those who say "you owned my country thus I'm getting some of my own back," however some of those peoples arrived here without choice and stayed. (Also without choice) Those peoples needed food, goods and produce that they were familiar with so British cuisine among other things changed. Different cultures have added to British culture and I see that as a good thing. Not that it's all one way - think about the famous story of Tikka Masala - an English take on an Indian curry for example which is now the most popular dish in the UK.

However, my comment about turning to fascism is about the large number of Americans and some Canadians who see fear and a response based on fear as the only sensible response to the current threat of jihadi islamists. On another thread - PakPuk was trying to pretend he knew nothing of Britain First and their history - I said to him there that BF, like the NF and British Union of Fascists before them tried to take the country down the route of fear in the 1930's and to join with Hitler. We did the right thing then by throwing the BUF out and they went from a fairly large street movement to a discredited organisation once we were at war with Germany.

I can't believe the UK would ever turn to fascist groups now or in future; that isn't the response to jihadi groups no matter what the American posters wish for on this forum. The internet brings out the worst in many people, they feel safe enough to say and do things they wouldn't do in public and maybe that's them being honest but equally it could just be that people let their hidden darkness come out because it is safe to do so.
I've got a lot more faith in Britain than many outsiders who think they know what we should as an Island nation do. Part of that faith comes from looking at the strengths those different races have brought to the UK and to our armed forces.

IC, I really want to trust the people of the UK on this. What I observe is that there are SOME North Americans adopting certain stances and justifying them with anti-XXX slurs and, there are SOME Europeans adopting the exact same stances and points of reference. If it was just on forums such as this I would hand wave it away but, the exact same things are popping up in general media and in general conversation. When I see those positions and responses from certain posters along the lines of 'PCeatmybabiesPLOGollyWogauthoritarianrapistleftyliberalHamasHezbollahCan'tcallaspadeaspade', I start to worry that all there is is hate and rhetoric and some people in the UK and Europe pointing fingers with no sense of responsibility for what is happening. I want to believe that this is a 'vocal minority' who are safely venting their feelings and not this legendary 'silent majority' but, it is not what I am sensing.
 
Interesting, the Magyars traditionally saw those conquered peoples as subhuman. One of the reasons they fitted in well with Germany in the 2nd world war. The Magyar arrival into Eastern Europe split the Slav dominated lands and peoples quite brutally so the difference in northern Slavic dialects are quite different to southern Slavic dialects.
Anyhow, I'm digressing - those former conquered peoples would (I think) possible be seen as less worthy of living in Hungary by old timers or those with very traditional views.

Not when you want to rebuild your empire. The current Hungary is small compared to the basis of imperial Hungary.
 
Boo ****ing hoo for the so called 'silent majority'.

How do you do it William? Yet another posting masterpiece! Those four, count 'em, asterisks - only a genius could have thought that up.
 
IC, I really want to trust the people of the UK on this. What I observe is that there are SOME North Americans adopting certain stances and justifying them with anti-XXX slurs and, there are SOME Europeans adopting the exact same stances and points of reference. If it was just on forums such as this I would hand wave it away but, the exact same things are popping up in general media and in general conversation. When I see those positions and responses from certain posters along the lines of 'PCeatmybabiesPLOGollyWogauthoritarianrapistleftyliberalHamasHezbollahCan'tcallaspadeaspade', I start to worry that all there is is hate and rhetoric and some people in the UK and Europe pointing fingers with no sense of responsibility for what is happening. I want to believe that this is a 'vocal minority' who are safely venting their feelings and not this legendary 'silent majority' but, it is not what I am sensing.

Hi Will, in some ways (obviously without the terrorism) there are echoes of how the West Indian immigrant community were seen in the 70's and 80's followed by riots and deaths of policemen. There was a lot of demonisation and while problems still persist there have been huge moves on both sides and wider attitudes have changed. I wouldn't call it rosy but it's better, people learning to live together.

The current problem has a huge international dimension alongside the terrorism however, the refugee influx contains economic migrants as well as more hostile elements and what I remember when I read some of the fear driven hate comments on the forums is what Al-Baghdadi called for which was to create an atmosphere of hate against muslims so as to drive more to his ISIS flock. Those Americans and Canadians who come telling us how evil the muslims are and how their actions represent the majority are simply doing his work for him.
 
How do you do it William? Yet another posting masterpiece! Those four, count 'em, asterisks - only a genius could have thought that up.

I know, being concise and to the point is an art that few people manage to master and my native Anglo-Saxon is a proud part of my heritage; Never felt comfortable with all those French substitutions.
 
and how do you know what Europe has or has not had enough of? Can you provide any pertinent data that show any European residing in hte Shcnegne zone to have had enough of open borders within?
 
Europe has had enough of multiculturalism and open borders; violence is inevitable.

Boohoo, indeed.

It's one thing to support a right-wing candidate or party that opposes multiculturalism and open borders; it is an entirely different thing to do so when said candidate or party wants to abolish the constitution, democracy and freedom.

Orban in Hungary happens to be in line with your views on policies, fair enough -- but beyond that, he's a freedom hating authoritarian fascist (a real one, not just a "fascist" in the eyes of politically correct people).


If given the choice between a party that I agree with, but that will destroy freedom and establish a tyranny, and a party I disagree with on policies, but which can be diselected again after a term -- I'll always choose the latter, hands down.
 
It's one thing to support a right-wing candidate or party that opposes multiculturalism and open borders; it is an entirely different thing to do so when said candidate or party wants to abolish the constitution, democracy and freedom.

Orban in Hungary happens to be in line with your views on policies, fair enough -- but beyond that, he's a freedom hating authoritarian fascist (a real one, not just a "fascist" in the eyes of politically correct people).


If given the choice between a party that I agree with, but that will destroy freedom and establish a tyranny, and a party I disagree with on policies, but which can be diselected again after a term -- I'll always choose the latter, hands down.

If he is really a freedom hating fascist then why has Hungary not turned into North Korea? His comments on immigration only increase his popularity within Hungary, the man already has one of the biggest electoral successes in the EU?
 
If he is really a freedom hating fascist then why has Hungary not turned into North Korea? His comments on immigration only increase his popularity within Hungary, the man already has one of the biggest electoral successes in the EU?

Because you have to try really hard to turn a country into a ****hole of NK magnitude. Even with strong will, it's not that easy to achieve. ;)

At any rate, you can't diselect Orban anymore, because he decides who's allowed to run against him and who not, and he controls the media and decides who gets how much airtime and who not.

Pretty much like in Russia.
 
Because you have to try really hard to turn a country into a ****hole of NK magnitude. Even with strong will, it's not that easy to achieve. ;)

At any rate, you can't diselect Orban anymore, because he decides who's allowed to run against him and who not, and he controls the media and decides who gets how much airtime and who not.

Pretty much like in Russia.

So are you telling me if I go to Hungary and protest in front of parliament with a sign saying "down with fascist Orban" I will be thrown in a prison cell and beaten by two thugs with a wooden stick?

Hold on in the previous thread we were discussing control of the media by the government. Why do you know believe that this control is real when it comes to Hungary. Is it because you only believe state control of media to be real when you dislike that particular country? If it was such a hellhole then how is it part of the EU? List me some cases of the 'fascist Orban' to prove your case or is this just liberal German student rhetoric?
 
If he is really a freedom hating fascist then why has Hungary not turned into North Korea? His comments on immigration only increase his popularity within Hungary, the man already has one of the biggest electoral successes in the EU?
................and you believe in the wisdom of masses, right?

So as not to go Godwining, the same thing (bolded by me) applies to Putin and did once apply to Mussolini. Erdogan is also not doing too badly on the principle.

Appeal to popularity is one of the more frequent logical fallacies. Ask IS why they thrive on it with many.
 
but beyond that, he's a freedom hating authoritarian fascist (a real one, not just a "fascist" in the eyes of politically correct people).

No. Jobbik are. Orban is a national conservative.
 
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