EU referendum: Barack Obama to urge Britons to back remain vote on UK visit

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

Infinite Chaos said:
Simple question - do Norway and Switzerland have to have the same open border policy for EU workers and vice versa? Answer yes or no please.

Yeah, we turned away from Australia when they were at greatest need and they eventually found export to China (beef, minerals and raw materials) and now they are doing really well. What do we have to offer that Australia needs?

[1] How can I answer yes or no on an issue that is controlled by their own national governments? They are not EU member states, and as such can and do/choose whether or not they would apply any EU rules/regulations/directives/laws. Member states like UK do not have that option. They are bound by their membership, and the only way to oppose such would require a Brexit. See following for an example:

EU-Swiss relations in turmoil after immigration vote

EU-Swiss relations in turmoil after immigration vote – EurActiv.com

[2] I had worked, lived, and operated my own business (which included exporting to world) in Australia for 30 years. The UK and Australia trade had never stopped, and I believe Australia would like nothing better that see trade with UK increase. No offence, but your argument for not doing so for given reason lacks merit and is not rational. See following in support of what I say:

UK continues as Australia’s top export market in Europe

Australia’s export figures for 2014 show that the United Kingdom continues to be Australia’s top export market within the European Union.

Overall exports of goods and services saw the UK as Australia’s eighth largest export market for 2014, at A$8.3 billion. This represented 37.4% of Australia’s total exports to the EU. No other EU country featured in Australia’s top 15 export markets.

For services exports the UK was Australia’s third largest export market, behind China and the USA, with $4.6b in 2014. This represented 46.1% of Australia’s total services exports to the EU, and exceeded Australia’s services exports to the next EU market, Germany (12th largest), by almost four to one. Other EU markets in Australia’s ‘top 20’ included Switzerland (14th) and France (18th).

Aust Gov LINK: UK continues as Australiaâ€™s top export market in Europe - Austrade

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

Aw heck, Australia ranked (2014) as the 21st largest trade in goods partner of the EU while the EU represented Australia's third largest trading partner after China and Japan. Predominantly Australia exports mineral commodities (fuels and mining products) and agricultural products to the EU, the EU reciprocating with (equally predominantly) manufactured goods.

IC already pointed out the UK's lack of the latter but, aside from all of this, does anybody reckon that UK is gonna successfully compete here at all?

Like say Australia pee-ing the trade relations with the EU into the wind in favor of a UK that cannot even remotely take the EU's place?

Get real.

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

Chagos said:
Aw heck, Australia ranked (2014) as the 21st largest trade in goods partner of the EU while the EU represented Australia's third largest trading partner after China and Japan. Predominantly Australia exports mineral commodities (fuels and mining products) and agricultural products to the EU, the EU reciprocating with (equally predominantly) manufactured goods.

IC already pointed out the UK's lack of the latter but, aside from all of this, does anybody reckon that UK is gonna successfully compete here at all?

Like say Australia pee-ing the trade relations with the EU into the wind in favor of a UK that cannot even remotely take the EU's place?

Get real.

You should had used the supplied link, which included this part:

These results reinforce the findings of Australia’s International Business Survey 2015 in which the UK lists in the top five markets for Australian businesses as a ‘key target market for the next two years,’ behind the US, China and Indonesia, and just ahead of India.

Coupled with the UK’s position as the second largest investor in Australia, second largest destination for Australian investment, and second largest tourism market by value, these export figures confirm the UK’s position as one of Australia’s most significant global markets and its major economic partner in Europe.

I say again, the EU is an organisation, a custom union. It does NOT possess any industry or population. When economist throw EU trade stats they are referring to COMBINED trade of member states, which INCLUDES UK.

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

World's largest economies: UK could overtake Germany and Japan to become world's fourth biggest economy

World's largest economies: UK could overtake Germany and Japan to become world's fourth biggest economy | City A.M.

Just added this to piss you-know-who off! :lamo

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

........and if somebody (I can just smell it coming :roll

wants to equate Australia-EU trade with Australia-UK trade, in 2014 Australia exported worth 2,8 mill (Aus-$) to Germany (8,3 mill to UK) and imported worth 13,8 mil from Germany (12,5 from UK). Just to name 2 EU countries individually.

Now where that shows both UK and Germany to have a surplus, note the massive difference in surplus between the two when it comes to selling stuff. The numbers, incidentally, include services.

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

Phoenix One UK said:
Just added this to piss you-know-who off! :lamo

You are indeed a good joke. Thanks for that one.:mrgreen:

Sports journalists and accountants explaining world economics, Lawd gimme strength.

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

Chagos said:
You are indeed a good joke. Thanks for that one.:mrgreen:

Sports journalists and accountants explaining world economics, Lawd gimme strength.

Your welcome. :lamo

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

Phoenix One UK said:
You should had used the supplied link, which included this part:

I did and don't disagree with content. Just with conclusions drawn. On your skewered interpretation of even those I won't even dwell.

I say again, the EU is an organisation, a custom union. It does NOT possess any industry or population. When economist throw EU trade stats they are referring to COMBINED trade of member states, which INCLUDES UK.

Baloney doesn't become less so by constant repetition.

That the EU is neither a market nor an area (geographical, political or economic) possessed of any industry is a laughable position to take.

You're all awash still, like last time or any time you visit here to push silly arguments based on data you don't even appear to understand.

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

Phoenix One UK said:
Your welcome. :lamo

Look, I see absolutely no reason to rule out the possibility of the UK at some time overtaking the nations cited.

I simply work on economic data of today, robust forecasts for tomorrow and don't crystal-ball gaze like some amateur.

If you enjoy succumbing to (very) wet pipe dreams, be my guest.

Tomorrow the sun is going to rise in the West BTW.:2razz:

And while we're at it, whatever happened to your entertaining RT sources of the past?:mrgreen:

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

Chagos said:
I did and don't disagree with content. Just with conclusions drawn. On your skewered interpretation of even those I won't even dwell.
Baloney doesn't become less so by constant repetition.

That the EU is neither a market nor an area (geographical, political or economic) possessed of any industry is a laughable position to take.

You're all awash still, like last time or any time you visit here to push silly arguments based on data you don't even appear to understand.

40 years of Customs Union

40 Years Customs Union - European Commission

The EU IS a Custom Union. It has no industry nor population. Note the above supplied link is to EU itself. :2wave:

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

Phoenix One UK said:
The EU IS a Custom Union. It has no industry nor population. Note the above supplied link is to EU itself. :2wave:

OF COURSE it's a customs union. Like Kent and Durham being in one.

As to the rest of your claims..................:toilet:

But I gotta go, so laterz

:2australi

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

Chagos said:
OF COURSE it's a customs union. Like Kent and Durham being in one.

As to the rest of your claims..................:toilet:

But I gotta go, so laterz

:2australi

Wrong. Kent, for example, is a county within a sovereign country called the UK. Texas is a state within a sovereign country called the USA. Victoria is a state within a sovereign country called Australia. All those quoted here possess both a population and industry.

The EU is an organisation, a custom union. It has NO industry nor population. The same applies to Commonwealth, WTO, WBO, and WHO. They too are just organisations.

Appendage:

This one is worth repeating:

The EU is not a free trade area but a customs union: until we understand the difference, the debate about our membership is meaningless

The EU is not a free trade area but a customs union: until we understand the difference, the debate about our membership is meaningless – Telegraph Blogs

Now Look.... · Mar 19, 2016

Oh dear, so you think leaving a major trade zone (whatever you call it) would have no disruption?

No. Just what we seem to be getting at the minute are playground-level threats of retribution from our mature EU partners. And we have to sit and negotiate with these jackanapes? Let's wait and talk about what we could really get.

So in effect – leaving the EU doesn’t give us our democracy back does it? I am now more than certain you need to read up on democracy – transparency / popular representation etc

If I had meant to say transparency, I would have done. We've all complained that there isn't more. But as Sir Humphrey put it, you can be open or you can have government. Doesn't mean to say we lack democracy.

Equally, an all party Parliamentary report in 2015 states 15%.. up from 8% in 2008 (from your own page source)

Well well well, politicians, you've pulled the wool over us again! In order to give a low number of new orders, our masters simply won't count them.

Business for Britain was right, on 2nd March, to question the proportion of our laws that comes from Brussels. Nigel Farage says it is 78%, Nick Clegg 7% and the House of Commons Library 13.2% but that is also an understatement due to the Library’s omission of no less than 49,699 EU Regulations, during the same 21 years to 2014. EU Regulations are not approved by Parliament and thereby escape the Library’s attention.

Adam Smith Institute: Who rules Britain: how much of our law comes from Brussels? «

No wonder that guy tried to blow the place up!

See you soon.

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

Phoenix One UK said:
Wrong. Kent, for example, is a county within a sovereign country called the UK. Texas is a state within a sovereign country called the USA. Victoria is a state within a sovereign country called Australia. All those quoted here possess both a population and industry.

The EU is an organisation, a custom union. It has NO industry nor population.

balderdash that will remain so, however often you repeat it.

The same thing applying to ............

Appendage:

This one is worth repeating:

..........even where it is worth repeating, if just to show what prevaricating nonsense abounds and the extent to which you like to present that as value.

Hannan is either an idiot or a liar, possibly both. To quote a real economist (J. Portes of the NIESR), Hannan uses statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost. Not for illumination but for support.

Worse than that, he shows a tendency of inventing them and not withdrawing his claims when falsehoods are pointed out to him.

A euro-sceptic conservative he's nevertheless been expelled from the EPP-PD group in the European parliament.

The whole point is that if you and your ilk use stuff that the likes of him supply, you run risk of being considered either a liar (assuming you know his data to be a construct but pushing it anyway) or, if gullibility leads you to hold it as gospel, a fool.

Neither state serving your credibility (either way), not to mention the agenda you're trying to push with no regard for supplying objective data.

It is, as I already said, just a re-run of the last time some months ago, when you last considered yourself qualified to let us partake of your "pearls of wisdom". Before finally (and wisely) butting out, your lines of argument totally revealed as what they were (and still are).

And where I don't expect you to seriously consider the following reminder (again J. Portes), I'll post it anyway for the benefit of others.

The electorate deserves a vigorous debate on the merits or otherwise of Brexit – based on accurate facts and statistics. People, on either side of the debate, who mislead or misrepresent the fact in order to strengthen their case are guilty of a serious disservice to the public.

Phoenix One UK · Mar 19, 2016

Your what I had come to expect of many Europhiles Chagos. The EU and euro must survive no matter what. Well, I don't buy it. I am not an EU citizen, I AM a British subject. The EU is not even a state. Hence, I refuse to accept anyone stating they are an EU citizen.

The EU is not a Nation State

An important criterion in the law dictionary definitions of a Constitution refers to "a Nation or State". On this point, the answer is clear and straightforward. The EU, although it has some attributes of a State, is clearly not a State; nor do the citizens of the Union make up a single Nation

LINK: Does the European Union have a Constitution ? Does it need one?

Nothing you or any other Europhile can say can change that very basic fact.

Nice debating with you.

Have a nice day.

Chagos · Mar 19, 2016

When someone stands in the playground with a finger in each ear, screeching "didn't", it's clear that they're owned.

Same result as last time, nothing proven, no pertinent substantiation provided in place of silly suppositions and, finally, going home taking the ball with them.