Is Putin "weaponising" the Syria migrant influx into Europe?

Russia and Syria are deliberately using migration as an aggressive strategy towards Europe, the senior Nato commander in Europe has said.

US Gen Philip Breedlove said they were "weaponising" migration to destabilise and undermine the continent. He also suggested that criminals, extremists and fighters were hiding in the flow of migrants. Link.

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The claim isn't that all the migrants are being handed semtex and kalashnikovs but that the sheer numbers and influx are being used as a weapon to disrupt. Certainly the influx has changed Schengen agreements and brought EU nation against EU nation. Fear of "migrant hordes" at the UK's borders have also raised tensions in the UK.

So, could Putin be aggravating the situation deliberately for his own ends? Is NATO quietly making a case that Europe needs to stick together - with an eye on the forthcoming UK referendum?

Geo-politics at its finest...

Infinite Chaos said:

The claim isn't that all the migrants are being handed semtex and kalashnikovs but that the sheer numbers and influx are being used as a weapon to disrupt. Certainly the influx has changed Schengen agreements and brought EU nation against EU nation. Fear of "migrant hordes" at the UK's borders have also raised tensions in the UK.

So, could Putin be aggravating the situation deliberately for his own ends? Is NATO quietly making a case that Europe needs to stick together - with an eye on the forthcoming UK referendum?

Geo-politics at its finest...

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The EU has been completely ineffective in dealing with the migrant surge - now running at over twice the rate as the disastrous levels of last year. States are now ignoring the EU and deciding there own policies.

Thousands of the horde will be actual terrorists, tens of thousands potential terrorists.

Geo politics? I wish!

Sweden said:

The EU has been completely ineffective in dealing with the migrant surge - now running at over twice the rate as the disastrous levels of last year. States are now ignoring the EU and deciding there own policies.

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It has always been their own policies.. the EU has had very little to do with migrantion. Many countries want to change that but are being blocked by "certain" nations...

Infinite Chaos said:

The claim isn't that all the migrants are being handed semtex and kalashnikovs but that the sheer numbers and influx are being used as a weapon to disrupt. Certainly the influx has changed Schengen agreements and brought EU nation against EU nation. Fear of "migrant hordes" at the UK's borders have also raised tensions in the UK.

So, could Putin be aggravating the situation deliberately for his own ends? Is NATO quietly making a case that Europe needs to stick together - with an eye on the forthcoming UK referendum?

Geo-politics at its finest...

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Tinfoil hat time I am thinking. The US military needs new enemies to justify their massive budgets and what is better than an old enemy rising from the grave?

But one could also argue that US/UK policy in Syria is causing the refugee/migrant flux to Europe and that has nothing to do with Putin.. so..

Infinite Chaos said:

So, could Putin be aggravating the situation deliberately for his own ends?

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Definitely. Putin desires to weaken and if possible drive wedges into the European Union. The EU is a political/trade/legal/social magnet for former republics of the USSR such as Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova who wish to leave the Russian sphere of influence and align with Europe. In addition, the EU as a trade bloc renders Putin's own Eurasian Economic Association embarrassingly impotent. The immediate goal of Moscow's tactics is to convince just one or two EU nations to veto continuing EU sanctions against Russia for its illegal annexation of Crimea and invasion of eastern Ukraine. Being a petro-state, low global oil prices have shattered the Russian economy and state budget. Western sanctions do not allow Moscow to borrow its way out of this situation. Russia cannot dictate global oil prices, but it can certainly put different pressures on European nations to roll back economic sanctions.

In recent years Moscow has utilized many different tactics ... invasion of its neighbors, rattling the nuclear saber, rampant airspace violations, unprecedented levels of propaganda, energy blackmail, financially/politically supporting European far-right nationalist parties etc. Putin is in a unique position to exacerbate Europe's war refugee problem and he seized the opportunity ... bombing hospitals, clinics, doctors, rescue workers, and civilians in Syria to exponentially increase the refugee flow into an already battered Europe.

Postscript ... the US government yesterday extended sanctions on Russia for another year.

U.S. Extends Sanctions on Russia to 2017

PeteEU said:

Tinfoil hat time I am thinking. ~

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And you think Russia has nothing to gain by destabilising Syrian citizens into fleeing? Nothing to gain from the destabilisation of Europe through encouraging mass exodus?

Sweden said:

The EU has been completely ineffective in dealing with the migrant surge - now running at over twice the rate as the disastrous levels of last year. States are now ignoring the EU and deciding there own policies.

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True

Sweden said:

Thousands of the horde will be actual terrorists, tens of thousands potential terrorists.

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Gawsh. Maybe in the future but the majority will be refugees. The point of this is that these people have been encouraged on their way, some traversing unstopped through Russia to cycle over the border into Finland on bicycles. It just takes some well placed bombs to get people fleeing for their lives.

PeteEU said:

Tinfoil hat time I am thinking. The US military needs new enemies to justify their massive budgets and what is better than an old enemy rising from the grave?

But one could also argue that US/UK policy in Syria is causing the refugee/migrant flux to Europe and that has nothing to do with Putin.. so..

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The US military doesn't decide on budgets, they can only work with congress on where the allocated money is spent.

Try again?

RetiredUSN said:

The US military doesn't decide on budgets, they can only work with congress on where the allocated money is spent.

Try again?

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Come on.. US military says X Y and Z are threats.. Congress acts in fear and gives them what ever they want. The US military is in bed with the weapons manufactures and they are both totally dependent on each other. The more war, the more money the Generals can play with and the more overpriced gear the weapons manufactures can sell the military.

Infinite Chaos said:

And you think Russia has nothing to gain by destabilising Syrian citizens into fleeing? Nothing to gain from the destabilisation of Europe through encouraging mass exodus?

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Other than it be a distraction from other actions the Russians are doing like in Ukraine.. then no. Russias main trade partner is Europe.. chaos here and destabilizing Europe would cut into their main market. Had it been part of the "Russian plans" then they would have actively gone into Syria far earlier than they did.

And the "mass exodus" started long before the Russians got involved on the ground in Syria and the ones that have been destabilizing Syria is the US/UK/France by actively backing the opposition and created a chaos that has meant that Al Nusra and ISIS have grown out of this chaos. None of that had anything to do with the Russians.

PeteEU said:

Come on.. US military says X Y and Z are threats.. Congress acts in fear and gives them what ever they want. The US military is in bed with the weapons manufactures and they are both totally dependent on each other. The more war, the more money the Generals can play with and the more overpriced gear the weapons manufactures can sell the military.

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Congress decides. It is speculation on your part to say the admirals and generals are in bed with the weapons manufacturers.

I put this at #14 on Putins "why I am in Syria" priority list. But sure, if he can destabilize Europe he benefits.

PeteEU said:

Other than it be a distraction from other actions the Russians are doing like in Ukraine.. then no. Russias main trade partner is Europe.. chaos here and destabilizing Europe would cut into their main market. Had it been part of the "Russian plans" then they would have actively gone into Syria far earlier than they did.

And the "mass exodus" started long before the Russians got involved on the ground in Syria and the ones that have been destabilizing Syria is the US/UK/France by actively backing the opposition and created a chaos that has meant that Al Nusra and ISIS have grown out of this chaos. None of that had anything to do with the Russians.

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Chaos in Europe has no advantages for Putin???? Seriously???? A strong united Europeon/Nato alliance is exactly what he is trying to break up. Putin far prefers the integrity of his own ego and Russia's perceived power more than he cares about Russia's economy. Just look at the sanctions he was willing to incur in order to prevent Ukraine from going down a path towards the EU.

Also yes it started before Russia got involved but once it became clear how much chaos it was causing he pounced. This year the number of refugees looks to be set to increase significantly from last year.

PeteEU said:

Other than it be a distraction from other actions the Russians are doing like in Ukraine.. then no. Russias main trade partner is Europe.. chaos here and destabilizing Europe would cut into their main market. Had it been part of the "Russian plans" then they would have actively gone into Syria far earlier than they did.

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You're assuming plans don't change. You're also assuming Russia had nothing to gain from destabilisation.

PeteEU said:

And the "mass exodus" started long before the Russians got involved on the ground in Syria and the ones that have been destabilizing Syria is the US/UK/France by actively backing the opposition and created a chaos that has meant that Al Nusra and ISIS have grown out of this chaos. None of that had anything to do with the Russians.

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The numbers climbed sharply once Russian bombing in Syria started in September, combined with a fear that Germany was going to close its open door policy.

No, Putin is not weaponizing the refugees because Putin isn't responsible for the refugees. Those responsible for this are western powers and some gulf states. They are the ones who undermined Assad's power, financially and physically supported extremists, and destabilized the region? That wasn't Putin.

Putin is supporting Assad against any and all threats. In reality, he may be the only one working to solve the matter but that is counteracted by other foreign interests.

Fishking said:

No, Putin is not weaponizing the refugees because Putin isn't responsible for the refugees. Those responsible for this are western powers and some gulf states. They are the ones who undermined Assad's power, financially and physically supported extremists, and destabilized the region? That wasn't Putin.

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this is what i hear too

Infinite Chaos said:

You're assuming plans don't change. You're also assuming Russia had nothing to gain from destabilisation.

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Not assuming anything. Show me what Russia has to gain from destabilisation..

The numbers climbed sharply once Russian bombing in Syria started in September, combined with a fear that Germany was going to close its open door policy.

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You cant link the Russian bombing and the influx of refugees. Syrian refugees have been coming to Europe for a long time before the Russians started bombing. There was an increase yes, but were they from people already in Turkey or new ones coming from Syria.. basically prove which kind.

What we can prove is that the refugees situation was started when the west backed a losing hand and made the civil war go on and on in a vain hope of removing the Russian naval base in Syria by toppling Assad.

International10 said:

Chaos in Europe has no advantages for Putin???? Seriously???? A strong united Europeon/Nato alliance is exactly what he is trying to break up. Putin far prefers the integrity of his own ego and Russia's perceived power more than he cares about Russia's economy. Just look at the sanctions he was willing to incur in order to prevent Ukraine from going down a path towards the EU.

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Putin could care less if Ukraine joined the EU. His problem was and still is, that with an EU membership, then soon after comes a NATO membership. On top of that the Ukraine opposition, now government were and are infected by neo nazi nationalists who wanted to seize Sevastopol in Crimea, and THAT is what no Russia leader could every allow to happen.

Also yes it started before Russia got involved but once it became clear how much chaos it was causing he pounced. This year the number of refugees looks to be set to increase significantly from last year.

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Yes and? Ever think that the refugees got tired of living in slums in Turkey and Syria it self and wanted to try to get better conditions elsewhere? Constantly blaming the Russians and Assad for the refugee problem is not fair, since the opposition and especially ISIS and co also cause tons of refugees.

RetiredUSN said:

Congress decides. It is speculation on your part to say the admirals and generals are in bed with the weapons manufacturers.

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LOL speculation.. yea right. How many former military people are in top positions at weapons manufactures?

PeteEU said:

Not assuming anything. Show me what Russia has to gain from destabilisation..

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What does anyone gain from destabilising a neighbour? What does anyone gain from being able to destabilise a neighbour who may be a bit of a thorn in your side?

PeteEU said:

~ You cant link the Russian bombing and the influx of refugees. Syrian refugees have been coming to Europe for a long time before the Russians started bombing. There was an increase yes, but were they from people already in Turkey or new ones coming from Syria.. basically prove which kind.

What we can prove is that the refugees situation was started when the west backed a losing hand and made the civil war go on and on in a vain hope of removing the Russian naval base in Syria by toppling Assad.

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You did it for me.

PeteEU said:

Putin could care less if Ukraine joined the EU. His problem was and still is, that with an EU membership, then soon after comes a NATO membership. On top of that the Ukraine opposition, now government were and are infected by neo nazi nationalists who wanted to seize Sevastopol in Crimea, and THAT is what no Russia leader could every allow to happen.



Yes and? Ever think that the refugees got tired of living in slums in Turkey and Syria it self and wanted to try to get better conditions elsewhere? Constantly blaming the Russians and Assad for the refugee problem is not fair, since the opposition and especially ISIS and co also cause tons of refugees.

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The first part of your comment lost all credibility at "Putin could care less if Ukraine joined the EU"

And who is blaming the refugee crisis "All on Putin"...The suggestion is merely that he has something to gain from destabilizing Europe/Nato and might be taking certain steps to help it continue to do so. Global leaders with that much power and influence consider these kind of things ya know.....

International10 said:

The first part of your comment lost all credibility at "Putin could care less if Ukraine joined the EU"....

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yeah, i thought that was strange comment too

PeteEU said:

LOL speculation.. yea right. How many former military people are in top positions at weapons manufactures?

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Who better to put in those positions? You have no freaking idea.

I could have worked for many Navy contracted shipyards as a "engineer" after I retired as well. They are crying for guys with diesel/hydraulics/Gas Turbine credentials that I have.

Russia ‘trying to oust Angela Merkel by inciting unrest against refugees in Germany’

"German chancellor has been a leading advocate of economic sanctions against Vladimir Putin’s regime"

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