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Reasons to leave the EU thread

Infinite Chaos

Infinite Chaos

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OK there's two other discussion threads where hopefully people will pick apart / disagree / support the case for the thread title. What would be ideal is posting reasons so that others (even non forum members can be informed).

No guarantee people will read this request but I won't be responding to quotes in this thread - just hoping I and others can respect the thread title.

If you want to post reasons for staying in - use this thread.

If you wish to discuss how you would vote now - use this thread.

If you want to discuss things more specifically - use this thread.
 
Italy should leave the EU, so I could more easily get those local hard cheeses I like! :thumbs:

Edit: Ah, this is U.K. specific!

Ooops! :doh
 
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gunner said:
The complexity over laws, is a good starting point:https://fullfact.org/news/what-proportion-uk-law-comes-brussels/
Research Briefings - How much legislation comes from Europe?
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Just fyi, the web site is run by a know big financial donor to the Tory party.

This is one of the subjects that often get manipulated big time by the anti-EU crowd because it is so hard to prove otherwise and people tend to forget how it was in the past.

First off, the amount of legislation coming from Europe is about 15%. The reason is simple. The EU does not regulate social laws, law and justice nor taxes and these areas are by far the largest part of any legislative process. So when Nigel "the liar" Farage comes out with 75% comes from the EU.. he is lying.

Secondly the amount of "red tape" or complexity was at best the same, but in many cases far far worse before the UK went into the EU/EEC. However people tend to forget this. For example, before the EEC/EU there was rules on what could be imported into most countries and where it could come in and so on. Most of that red tape is gone now.

Basically the anti-EU people forget the past and ignore the fact that the red tape that they "hate" from the EU, most likely would still be needed even if the UK left the EU.
 
Trade with non-EU European countries has grown hugely since 1973 while trade with major EU nations has not changed much since 1973. Our balance of trade with the EU is a deficit - the major EU country we import most from is Germany followed by Spain and then Belgium. They need us more than we need them.

Parliamentary briefing pdf download file
 
PeteEU said:
Just fyi, the web site is run by a know big financial donor to the Tory party.

This is one of the subjects that often get manipulated big time by the anti-EU crowd because it is so hard to prove otherwise and people tend to forget how it was in the past.

First off, the amount of legislation coming from Europe is about 15%. The reason is simple. The EU does not regulate social laws, law and justice nor taxes and these areas are by far the largest part of any legislative process. So when Nigel "the liar" Farage comes out with 75% comes from the EU.. he is lying.

Secondly the amount of "red tape" or complexity was at best the same, but in many cases far far worse before the UK went into the EU/EEC. However people tend to forget this. For example, before the EEC/EU there was rules on what could be imported into most countries and where it could come in and so on. Most of that red tape is gone now.

Basically the anti-EU people forget the past and ignore the fact that the red tape that they "hate" from the EU, most likely would still be needed even if the UK left the EU.
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Thanks for reading the OP...
 
PeteEU said:
But it is not a reason.. It is like saying a reason to leave the EU is because the EU flag has blue in it..
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The idea was that if you have a counter argument - there are threads to post that in OR you could post a positive for staying in on the other thread.

One thread for reasons to stay / one thread for reasons to leave.

Simple.

Another thread - for argument and countering any points made. We have a decision to make on the 23rd and it's useful to have reasons clear - so people don't have to go trawling through pages of argument and stuff to find salient reasons.
 
copying this one over from the thread where Obama interference got derailed by British fisheries issues
Chagos said:
Far be it from me to quote anything as being totally objective on the matter of Bremain vs. Brexit (heck, which outlet is?), for some less rubbishy look this one does a fairly good job at trying to see both sides.

Fairly good considering the circumstance of not being free of financial and economic interests either.

P.S. seeing how it's actually better off in the both leave and stay threads (stickies), I'll post it in those as well.
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Infinite Chaos said:
For £13 billion we pay in annual fees to the EU, only £4.5 billion comes back. Keeping that money in the UK could - no guarantee politicians actually would use it wisely - pay for a range of greater regional development / building schools / investment in the future.
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This week's budget shows you where that money would go - to reduce CGT from 10% to 5% perhaps. Or to take even more companies out of corporation tax. It's pointless arguing for leaving the EU so that more money can be spent on public services and infrastructure when it's clear that the UK government has an ideological commitment NOT to do any of those things. EU fees repatriated to the UK would go to subsidise the friends of the Tories, not the people in great need.
 
Andalublue said:
This week's budget shows you where that money would go - to reduce CGT from 10% to 5% perhaps. Or to take even more companies out of corporation tax. It's pointless arguing for leaving the EU so that more money can be spent on public services and infrastructure when it's clear that the UK government has an ideological commitment NOT to do any of those things. EU fees repatriated to the UK would go to subsidise the friends of the Tories, not the people in great need.
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For someone who made a good post elsewhere with regard speculation, I was surprise you reverted to doing some of your own here. There is no way you could support assertions made here.
 
Phoenix One UK said:
For someone who made a good post elsewhere with regard speculation, I was surprise you reverted to doing some of your own here. There is no way you could support assertions made here.
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Even where one can (not necessarily need) call what you criticize an assertion (assumption). criticism of such coming from the likes of you is truly pretty rich.

Hello kettle.
 
Chagos said:
Even where one can (not necessarily need) call what you criticize an assertion (assumption). criticism of such coming from the likes of you is truly pretty rich.

Hello kettle.
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You would know given you made enough assertions of your own. At least I back up my opinions, including links to sources, which included the European Commission, EU Parliament, UK Parliament, and the list goes on. What about you?
 
Phoenix One UK said:
............... At least I back up my opinions, including links to sources, which included the European Commission, EU Parliament, UK Parliament............................
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:lamo:lamo:lamo

Anyone caring to read our interchanges will easily see that what you supplied as back-up was either a load of bumpf or, where it held factual merit, was totally misrepresented in the usual prevaricating manner.

Either by intention or simple inability to comprehend.

That's not even mentioning that my demands for proof of your assertions were never met. In fact you either cannot or simply will not even answer simple questions.
 
Chagos said:
:lamo:lamo:lamo

Anyone caring to read our interchanges will easily see that what you supplied as back-up was either a load of bumpf or, where it held factual merit, was totally misrepresented in the usual prevaricating manner.

Either by intention or simple inability to comprehend.

That's not even mentioning that my demands for proof of your assertions were never met. In fact you either cannot or simply will not even answer simple questions.
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And, as usual, you are shooting off your mouth without supporting anything. You wouldn't be a politician by chance would you? :roll:
 
Phoenix One UK said:
And, as usual, you are shooting off your mouth without supporting anything. You wouldn't be a politician by chance would you? :roll:
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Supply something of substance/credibility and I'll respond.
 
OK, apologies to Infinite Chaos.

This isn't really the thread for this kind of exchange, even where it started in calling someone on their lack of manners and courtesy.

Again, sorry. My oversight.
 
In a counter to CBI claims - Vote Leave has stated that leaving the EU would not cost jobs but would in fact see a growth to the British economy.

Mr Elliott said that average annual economic growth in both exit scenarios between 2020 and 2030 would equal - and in some cases beat - GDP forecasts for the UK remaining in the EU.

Vote Leave said that jobs would still be created under either of the scenarios presented by PwC. By 2030, if Britain stayed in the EU, employment would reach 34.5 million, Vote Leave said.
If the UK left and made a free trade deal, employment would reach 34.1 million, or would hit 33.9 million in a WTO deal by 2030, according to calculations by Vote Leave.
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Because screw globalism..

And because Obama said he wants you to stay in the EU and your probably better off doing the exact opposite of whatever he says..
 
Infinite Chaos said:
In a counter to CBI claims - Vote Leave has stated that leaving the EU would not cost jobs but would in fact see a growth to the British economy.
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You know what? I've just decided to make it a policy to ignore all economic forecasts by government, think tanks and academics. Forecasts are dead to me! Has a single one of the government's economic forecasts in the past 10 years ever proved to have been accurate? Have they ever once achieved their targets, not just on economics, but on immigration, the NHS, infrastructure costings? I don't believe so.
 
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