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Ireland General Election

Jack of Devon

Jack of Devon

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Socialist
Anyone following the Irish General Election? It looks like the only result will be another election soon. Arguably not the best advertisement for a complex proportional representation voting system.
 
Jack of Devon said:
Anyone following the Irish General Election? It looks like the only result will be another election soon. Arguably not the best advertisement for a complex proportional representation voting system.
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My preferences got blown out of the water but I still think our system is pretty great if not the political culture. Casting multiple votes is pretty empowering.
 
Ben K. said:
My preferences got blown out of the water but I still think our system is pretty great if not the political culture. Casting multiple votes is pretty empowering.
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I can certainly see that, but doesn't the system run the risk of weak governments? What's the view in Dublin about who the winners and losers are- Fianna Fail rising from the ashes?
 
Ben K. said:
My preferences got blown out of the water but I still think our system is pretty great if not the political culture. Casting multiple votes is pretty empowering.
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Empowering for the politicians, who will be doing their deals out of sight of the voters.
 
Such a left wing country, no wonder it is in such an economic mess.
 
Jack of Devon said:
I can certainly see that, but doesn't the system run the risk of weak governments? What's the view in Dublin about who the winners and losers are- Fianna Fail rising from the ashes?
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Weak government or no government at all. Look at Spain months after their election - the parties still in secret talks. And not long ago Belgium went without a government for a very long time - about a year as far as I recall.
 
Jack of Devon said:
I can certainly see that, but doesn't the system run the risk of weak governments? What's the view in Dublin about who the winners and losers are- Fianna Fail rising from the ashes?
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Weak governments arent unique to the transferable vote system. This is very unusual.
 
Sweden said:
Empowering for the politicians, who will be doing their deals out of sight of the voters.
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Well, I guess so. If those deals aren't agreeable they may suffer next time around.
 
I can't see any other outcome than another general election soon. As an outsider looking in, it seems to me the electorate have forgiven FF very quickly.
 
Jack of Devon said:
I can't see any other outcome than another general election soon. As an outsider looking in, it seems to me the electorate have forgiven FF very quickly.
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Don't worry Ireland is bankrupt either way.
 
Jack of Devon said:
I can't see any other outcome than another general election soon. As an outsider looking in, it seems to me the electorate have forgiven FF very quickly.
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Problem is there was a protest vote but the only viable parties to protest with were Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein. The latter had way too much baggage, and while they increased their seats, it must be viewed as a failure that voting largely went to the party responsible for the crash just 5 years ago.

Everything else went to the fractured further left, some of whom have no interest in governance but hopefully the young Social Democrats have a baseline from which to replace Labour and eventually challenge Sinn Fein in the future. But that's a long way off.

Labour obviously got the Lib Dem treatment, but unlike UK elections it did not benefit their senior partner.

I suspect Fianna Fail will avoid coalition (though the centenary of 1916 would provide a poetic reunification of the original Sinn Fein) since this result will convince many voters that it's no longer taboo to vote for them in the next one. Plus all they offer is populism which people seem to love.

I wonder if anyone will be representing at the White House this Paddys Day?
 
Ben K. said:
Problem is there was a protest vote but the only viable parties to protest with were Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein. The latter had way too much baggage, and while they increased their seats, it must be viewed as a failure that voting largely went to the party responsible for the crash just 5 years ago.

Everything else went to the fractured further left, some of whom have no interest in governance but hopefully the young Social Democrats have a baseline from which to replace Labour and eventually challenge Sinn Fein in the future. But that's a long way off.

Labour obviously got the Lib Dem treatment, but unlike UK elections it did not benefit their senior partner.

I suspect Fianna Fail will avoid coalition (though the centenary of 1916 would provide a poetic reunification of the original Sinn Fein) since this result will convince many voters that it's no longer taboo to vote for them in the next one. Plus all they offer is populism which people seem to love.

I wonder if anyone will be representing at the White House this Paddys Day?
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Thanks Ben K. That's very interesting. The analogy with Labour and the Lib Dems had crossed my mind. I throw this in perhaps no more than to play devil's advocate: But given that you would struggle to put a fag paper between FF and FG in social and economic policy and their differences seem lost in the history of liberation, why don't the two parties just merge?
 
Jack of Devon said:
Thanks Ben K. That's very interesting. The analogy with Labour and the Lib Dems had crossed my mind. I throw this in perhaps no more than to play devil's advocate: But given that you would struggle to put a fag paper between FF and FG in social and economic policy and their differences seem lost in the history of liberation, why don't the two parties just merge?
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Legacy issues. Even though it's been 100 years it's like merging Chelsea and Arsenal to them. They assume the electorate sees it the same way but I'm not so sure they do anymore.

The party establishment wouldn't countenance it unless they were both under threat from another party.

Another question is why Sinn Fein don't rebrand. Their brand has a popularity ceiling due to their history, but I see no reason why populist leftism wouldn't fly in Ireland.
 
One of the many things I love about an Irish Election is this: In the UK when an MP is elected they make a polite speech thanking the Returning Oficer, the police and congratulating the unsuccessful candidates on having run an honourably fought campaign. This is usually greeted by a polite round of applause. In Ireland a successful candidate is lifted on to the shoulders of party members triumphantly, whilst they punch the air as if having just won a major sporting event.
 
Jack of Devon said:
Anyone following the Irish General Election? It looks like the only result will be another election soon. Arguably not the best advertisement for a complex proportional representation voting system.
Click to expand...

Here's how FTP would have worked out. Looks like still difficult to form a stable government.

KfrjPCr.jpg
 
HI just arrived in town.

Next week's budget is the first real test of the minority government but I don't expect it to be a major hurdle. Fine Gael & Fine Fail are in coalition even though FF doesn't like to admit it and the real test will be over 'water charges' in the new year.

You're either 'pro-water' or 'pro-charges' and we've already had people advocating a 'pro-water' constitutional amendment. :lol:
 
PakPuk said:
Such a left wing country, no wonder it is in such an economic mess.
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By what measure? The very fact that you have to pay to see a GP in Ireland puts it well to the right of much of Western Europe. I find it strange that when a bunch of people with no money, lend money they don´t have to people with no money , that when it all falls apart, people blame excessive government interference.
 
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Red_Dave said:
By what measure? The very fact that you have to pay to see a GP in Ireland puts it well to the right of much of Western Europe. I find it strange that when a bunch of people with no money, lend money they don´t have to people with no money , that when it all falls apart, people blame excessive government interference.
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About a third of the population with 'medical cards' don't pay for GP visits. Eligibility is means tested or because they have certain medical conditions. Having a medical card qualifies one for many benefits both medical and non-medical.
 
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