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The truth about the Cologne New Years comes out...

Camlon said:
And this is based on what evidence, your friends again? The medical reports of your patients?



Sorry you need to stick your head out of your bubble, because this is getting riddicilus. But go ahead, show me some religious Muslims who have married non-muslim men. For instance the danish prince married an asian, got anything similar?

And I know Europe well too, I am from Europe.



So now you don't even believe surveys, how far are you planning to take your denial of reality.

The data may surprise you, but that is because your friends doesn't represent Muslims in Europe.


So I was right. I don't think their views on gays, sharia, interracial marriage or terrorism are on their medical card. Which means your real "evidence" is your friends.

I suggest you realize that your friends doesn't represent European Muslims, most Muslims do not want to get to know you, they do segregate, and they do not accept interracial or interfaith marriage.



The problem started when you started using your friends as evidence that muslims are so progressive. If you would like to have a real discussion, then we can look at statistics instead.



That was not a map of crime rates, that was a map showing where muslims live. It clearly showed they are segregated to their own areas, except opposite of what you said.


Pathetic!
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Can you expand on how many muslims you interact with on a daily basis, and how long you lived in France? Then we might start taking your "expert" knowlegde seriously.
 
Camlon said:
Another fail! Where is the video? You are saying gangs of white men are sexually assaulting women like Cologne, then prove your ridiculous allegations. And I don't think you want to talk about rape rate, because we all know which country in the western world is number 1.

And stop with the strawmen, obviously rape is a problem in all societies. But what you refuse to acknowledge is that rape is especially a problem among Muslims and Africans.
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I would hope that ANY video of sexual assault were removed for the sake of the victims and in the name of good taste.

I have never suggested that rape doesn't occur in muslim or Africans communities. But it is not specific to those communities. It is an enormous problem everywhere - even amongst white New Zealanders.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
I would hope that ANY video of sexual assault were removed for the sake of the victims and in the name of good taste.

I have never suggested that rape doesn't occur in muslim or Africans communities. But it is not specific to those communities. It is an enormous problem everywhere - even amongst white New Zealanders.
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You know of white gangs in New Zealand, made up of brothers, cousins, uncles and friends; taking their young victims to like minded men, in other cities ?
 
gunner said:
You know of white gangs in New Zealand, made up of brothers, cousins, uncles and friends; taking their young victims to like minded men, in other cities ?
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........maybe not that type of family venture and certainly not in N.Z., however

Marie Black
 
Urethra Franklin said:
Can you expand on how many muslims you interact with on a daily basis, and how long you lived in France? Then we might start taking your "expert" knowlegde seriously.
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None of us are experts. You have thought your progressive Muslim friends represent all Muslims in Europe. I also interact with a few Muslims, but they are generally much more educated and less religious than the average. Unlike you, I know very well that the more radical Muslims, do not interact with non-Muslims.

That is why we should look at statistics and facts, not your anecdotal "evidence". We need to look at how segregated they live, look at surveys to see what they believe and how many are working and paying taxes.

Urethra Franklin said:
I would hope that ANY video of sexual assault were removed for the sake of the victims and in the name of good taste.

I have never suggested that rape doesn't occur in muslim or Africans communities. But it is not specific to those communities. It is an enormous problem everywhere - even amongst white New Zealanders.
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But you are still not able to admit the obvious. Is it that hard for you to admit that some cultures have a larger rape problem that other cultures? I am not saying rape is not a problem in New Zealand, but it is a much larger problem among Arabs and Africans.

Also, I would like to see an apology for your statement that Cologne happens every new year. That is an insult to the women who got assaulted that night. If it happens every year, I am sure we would have some video evidence of white gangs sexually assaulting women.

Finding a video with Muslims isn't hard, so we all know why you were incapable of finding a video that show similar gangs of white people.

 
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Chagos said:
........maybe not that type of family venture and certainly not in N.Z., however

Marie Black
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You see Chagos, I am in NO way denying the actions of any other group in society. What I won't accept is those denying their is nothing distinctive about the actions of mainly Pakistan abusers. So, have you got the evidence showing the exact same pattern of behaviour?
 
Camlon said:
None of us are experts. You have thought your progressive Muslim friends represent all Muslims in Europe. I also interact with a few Muslims, but they are generally much more educated and less religious than the average. Unlike you, I know very well that the more radical Muslims, do not interact with non-Muslims.

That is why we should look at statistics and facts, not your anecdotal "evidence". We need to look at how segregated they live, look at surveys to see what they believe and how many are working and paying taxes.



But you are still not able to admit the obvious. Is it that hard for you to admit that some cultures have a larger rape problem that other cultures? I am not saying rape is not a problem in New Zealand, but it is a much larger problem among Arabs and Africans.

Also, I would like to see an apology for your statement that Cologne happens every new year. That is an insult to the women who got assaulted that night. If it happens every year, I am sure we would have some video evidence of white gangs sexually assaulting women.

Finding a video with Muslims isn't hard, so we all know why you were incapable of finding a video that show similar gangs of white people.

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Yes facts and figures speak for themselves - that rape is a problem in ALL cultures. Nobody is saying the muslim, Arab or black men are immune. My original point was that right wing men who normally couldn't give a flying f*** about sexual abuse, who normally blame the victims, are now suddenly up in arms over Cologne because they have an outlet for their Islamophobia.

Yes, on many a New Years Eve in many cities women are groped, cat-called, abused. It was awful in Cologne and it's awful wherever it happens.

You arrogantly lecture me on the people I interact with everyday as though you know them better than me. I am very aware of the society around me - you still haven't told us how long you lived in France.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
Yes facts and figures speak for themselves - that rape is a problem in ALL cultures. Nobody is saying the muslim, Arab or black men are immune.
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What statistics? You haven't presented a single data, and has only used anecdotal "evidence". That is why I keep telling you that your progressive Muslim friends do not represent all Muslims in Europe.

Also, you are still not able to admit it. Do some cultures have larger problem with rape, or is all cultures equal?

My original point was that right wing men who normally couldn't give a flying f*** about sexual abuse, who normally blame the victims, are now suddenly up in arms over Cologne because they have an outlet for their Islamophobia.
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And your original point makes no sense. Before the migration crisis the right demanded longer punishments for rapists, and worse prisons, while progressives said we must understand the rapists.

The right has daughters and wives. The idea that they do not care about sexual assault, is moronic.
 
Camlon said:
What statistics? You haven't presented a single data, and has only used anecdotal "evidence".
.
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Untrue. You were given some stats in post #45.
Camlon said:
That is why I keep telling you that your progressive Muslim friends do not represent all Muslims in Europe..
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I see a wide cross-section of French muslims in my work and in my everyday life, either born here or of Arab or black African origin. I see the range of women from those in jilbab to those in mini-skirts. I see the range of men from those who respect me as an equal to those who wonder why a woman can be doing my job (pretty similar to the range of non-muslim white men I see). The vast majority are reasonable, moderate people. I have never taken a few "progressive muslim friends" and claimed they repersent all muslims in Europe. I see the whole cross-section and I know that most muslims are not isolationist extremist rapists, just as most Christians aren't abortion clinic bombers and most Hindus don't go out murdering muslims. You want to judge all muslims by Cologne. That's a mistake.

You have still to tell us how long you lived in France to be such an expert on French society?
Camlon said:
Also, you are still not able to admit it. Do some cultures have larger problem with rape, or is all cultures equal?..
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Sexism manifests itself in different ways and rape is present in virtually all cultures. Sexism can range from the oppressive Saudi model of seeing women as property to the western model of seeing sexual "liberation" as little more than women being abused in extreme forms of porn. How frequently were black slaves in the US raped by the slave owners? Would you suggest that that is either cultural or genetic or both, and hence, all white American males have a problem with rape? I am simply not into defining an entire group of people by the actions of some. I detest the way traditional Islam views women - the average muslim you come across in France doesn't think that way. I detest the way Christianity traditionally views women. The average Christian you meet in France is not a raving mysoginist; and I won't judge all Christians by the actions of the few or by their religion which has traditionally second-rated women. Don't you see how narrow your view of this is?

Camlon said:
And your original point makes no sense. Before the migration crisis the right demanded longer punishments for rapists, and worse prisons, while progressives said we must understand the rapists.
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We must both severely punish rapists and try to understand them otherwise how do we stop recidivism? Purely punitive measures alone don't work. Punishment must remain harsh, but we must try to understand the rapist's mind and work on it.

The right were often victim blaming raped women. You ask for it if you've had a drink or were dressed "provocatively" whatever that's meant to mean. It was often thanks to right wing governments and judges that women found it hard to prosecute for rape in the first place. Most countries have got better at handling rape victims from the police to the judiciary to the government, but it hasn't ben any gift from the right wing.
Camlon said:
The right has daughters and wives.
.
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So do many muslim men.

Camlon said:
The idea that they do not care about sexual assault, is moronic.
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Many of your conservative friends see women as "good girls" (their wives and daughters) and "bad girls" (the rest of us). I've had this argument many times on here if you care to troll the archives - conservative men who'll drool over centrefolds but heaven forbid their little girl did that, as if the centrefold isn't somebody's daughter. Women are continually being told by the right to modify their behavious - don't go out at night, don't drink, don't wear too much make up or dress scantily even in a summer heatwave, rather than simply telling men not to rape. For years the right saw rape as a loony leftist feminist issue, most of them were asking for it or making it up anyway. And now because of Cologne and you want to make an example of muslim men, suddenly sexism is your number one isuue. Un-f***ing believable.
 
Sweden said:
Only a small minority of the hundreds of thousands of migrants coming to Europe are refugees. They come not only from Syria, but from Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Sudan, Somalia and Nigeria. Sure, some of the perpetrators in Köln will have been 'Germans' - that is migrants who have been given German nationality after a couple of years.
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Yep...that's just like a headline saying, for example, "British Teen Joins ISIS", but when you look at the article, the teen in question is actually a person who came to Britain as an immigrant from North Africa or the Middle East.

But then, that's what the media does when they side with the government's ideology of Political Correctness: they tell a half-truth.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
I'm getting the feeling that what happened in Cologne is very probably what happens in many cities just about every New Years Eve
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Really? Call up the NYPD or LAPD and ask them on rape stats for New Years Eve in their cities and then compare to this incident.
 
Roadvirus said:
What do you suggest? Classes on how to "Treat Women Right"? If so, even that has failed in Europe: Afghan Refugee Rapes Worker, had attended "How to Treat Women" class
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There's a bit more to it than attending a class, though that's a start. Psychological assessment, counselling and psychotherapy over many years, endocrine screening, behavioral therapy, social work follow up, family therapy etc. etc. etc. And we need to look a little further than ONE Afghan teenager or JUST what happened in Cologne - it's a broader problem, or like Camlon, do you not care when the perpetrator isn't a muslim?
 
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Roadvirus said:
Really? Call up the NYPD or LAPD and ask them on rape stats for New Years Eve in their cities and then compare to this incident.
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As you know, the stats don't reflect the reality as many cases go unreported for a variety of reasons (fear, being disbelieved, shame, confusion etc.) The more minor incidents of groping and cat calling get reported even more rarely. Cologne got highlighted, and that was a great thing apart from some peoples obsession with "what religion were the perpetrators?" London, Rome or Berlin aren't highlighted since on most New Years Eves women getting groped, and worse, is either totally ignored or laughed off as drunken high spirits.
 
PeteEU said:
Cologne: Only three out of 58 men arrested in connection with mass sex attack on New Year's Eve are refugees | Europe | News | The Independent

Bet you wont read this in the Daily Mail or other xenophobic fascist papers that have been pushing the narrative that it was refugees that were raping all over the place..



Wait what? But but the Daily Mail and co, plus the far right have been saying that there was 1000 rapists and they all were refugees..



Wait what? but but we were told that all the complaints were of a sexual offence!

But of course the usual suspects will jump on the fact that the majority were of North African origin of course... but forget that they had been in Germany for quite a while .. oh and 3 of them were German citizens.



well that really blows a hole in the whole 1000 Muslim men raping at a train station bull****. He did however state that social media did help in increasing the amount of people there.

Just shows that people should not jump to conclusions based on right wing fascist news outlets and persons..
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Every single one of them was Muslim so spare us your bull****.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
As you know, the stats don't reflect the reality as many cases go unreported for a variety of reasons (fear, being disbelieved, shame, confusion etc.) The more minor incidents of groping and cat calling get reported even more rarely. Cologne got highlighted, and that was a great thing apart from some peoples obsession with "what religion were the perpetrators?" London, Rome or Berlin aren't highlighted since on most New Years Eves women getting groped, and worse, is either totally ignored or laughed off as drunken high spirits.
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The overwhelming difference here, is scale. Something you're happy to disregard.
 
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