What would happen if... (purely theoretical, don't get mad).

What would happen if a resurgent Ireland were to annex an independent Scotland? This is purely theoretical and would not happen, so don't get mad or mistake my curiosity for ignorance (furthermore, how unrealistic it is is not the topic of this thread, the thread topic is what would happen if it did in a theoretical alternate history).

Brief Backstory Blurb:

The rising threat of Russia has prompted immediate redistribution of major U.K. military assets north to Scotland. Some time later, Scottish desire for autonomy prompts secessionist and ultranationalist/Celtic-Gaelic supremacy factions to rise to power, resulting in the eventual independence of Scotland. Scots-Irish ties become cemented in later years, much in likeness to that of the British-US or US-Israeli relationships.

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Post your scenarios and or ideas.

Not really plausible I agree, but if it did what would also return would be conflict between the UK and Ireland. There is no way the UK would tolerate well Scotland obtaining their independence no matter the means then end up annexed by Ireland. In this scenario what is unlikely would be this happening because of Russian threat, and the relationship of the US to Israel or the US to the UK would not be much of a factor either. What would likely be the case is what happens within NATO, the UN, and the EU. Additional conflicts and problems at the UN Security Council is likely. The US would side with the UK, but it then comes down to course of action against Ireland because of a Scotland annex. Economics and trade would be a mess for decades.

I think Ireland would lose since the UK military has got more numbers and they got nukes...

Abbazorkzog said:

What would happen if a resurgent Ireland were to annex an independent Scotland? This is purely theoretical and would not happen, so don't get mad or mistake my curiosity for ignorance (furthermore, how unrealistic it is is not the topic of this thread, the thread topic is what would happen if it did in a theoretical alternate history).

Brief Backstory Blurb:



Post your scenarios and or ideas.

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Are you freaking kidding me!? I can barely understand a Scottish accent as it is. If you start mixing it up with a brogue it will be as indecipherable as Chinese.

Lutherf said:

Are you freaking kidding me!? I can barely understand a Scottish accent as it is. If you start mixing it up with a brogue it will be as indecipherable as Chinese.

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Wull ye politely winch mah scots bahookie.

Maccallan meets Jameson. I like it.

Much renaming.

MacDonald would become (again) O'Donnell. :mrgreen:

PoS said:

I think Ireland would lose since the UK military has got more numbers and they got nukes...

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UK Trident programme; extremists take Vanguard-class submarine(s) as collateral until demand(s) is (are) met, (and we don't negotiate with terrorists, sooooo...)

Also, in this scenario Scotland gets around 60-70% of Britain's military equipment (Armor, MLR systems, air craft, naval vessels, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I think they would still lose but I think it would be a rather even fight.

calamity said:

Maccallan meets Jameson. I like it.

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You start ****ing around with good Scotch and there will be war, I tell you!

Abbazorkzog said:

~ Brief Backstory Blurb ~

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The nuclear element doesn't (for me) stand up; allies wouldn't stand by while nuclear assets were seized or used in barter even by home grown secessionists.

That said - nice to discuss a thread which doesn't have the apocalypse of 700 million europeans at the hands of 44 million muslims for a change. However, to the thread - Scotland is more likely to become independent if the forthcoming referendum produces a "no" vote regarding EU membership. Ireland wishes to stay in the EU even if her biggest trading partner is the UK so there could be alliances between Ireland and Scotland outside of an England that walked away from the EU.

So, what then? Trying to keep to the scenario, this alternate history could actually come about but more as an alliance as Scotland seeks sponsors who would speed her re-entry to the EU. Then, we could take that further as an annexation takes place - Scotland becoming part of Ireland would speed re-entry as part of an existing EU nation. In that Scenario, England wouldn't do anything but what would be interesting would be the reaction of the protestant populations of Northern Ireland and Scotland who didn't want to be part of this new nation.

That's where I believe (in your scenario) the terror threat could come from...

Infinite Chaos said:

The nuclear element doesn't (for me) stand up; allies wouldn't stand by while nuclear assets were seized or used in barter even by home grown secessionists.

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Would the UK respond militarily to this situation under the threat of nuclear attack from rogue Scotland/Ireland?

Abbazorkzog said:

Would the UK respond militarily to this situation under the threat of nuclear attack from rogue Scotland/Ireland?

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Well, this is where the unrealism lost me - there's a huge hatred for nuclear weapons in Scotland; it's only the Union supporting Scots who work on the nuclear bases in Glasgow that would and they would support the English as they did in the last referendum. But - to answer the direct question - yes, they would. It would be interesting to see how any who got hold of nukes would be able to detonate them but if they did have the codes - I'm pretty certain there would be military action to get them back or put them out of commission.

Infinite Chaos said:

Well, this is where the unrealism lost me - there's a huge hatred for nuclear weapons in Scotland; it's only the Union supporting Scots who work on the nuclear bases in Glasgow that would and they would support the English as they did in the last referendum. But - to answer the direct question - yes, they would. It would be interesting to see how any who got hold of nukes would be able to detonate them but if they did have the codes - I'm pretty certain there would be military action to get them back or put them out of commission.

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In that case I'd have to go with an alternate history where the SNP doesn't exist, or rather - an anti-nuclear Scotland, preferably due to the threat of Russia (which could thereafter use intimidation and arm-twisting/sowing anti-EU/English sentiment into their framework over several years/decades to sway the new Ireland into their sphere of influence, or something to that nature). I appreciate the help!

Abbazorkzog said:

~ an alternate history where the SNP doesn't exist~

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There are probably quite a few Westminster politicians who would wish the same.

Abbazorkzog said:

I~preferably due to the threat of Russia (which could thereafter use intimidation and arm-twisting/sowing anti-EU/English sentiment into their framework over several years/decades to sway the new Ireland into their sphere of influence, or something to that nature). I appreciate the help!

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Hmm.. Ireland was Internationally neutral and I don't recall whether there is a huge movement towards taking sides. Russia would probably go with overtures than arm twisting and that is where the SNP also wish to head (neutrality)

So, your scenario would be the forthcoming referendum has resulted in the UK walking away from the EU; Scotland votes to leave the UK and seeks alliances with Gaelic and friendly neighbours. This could be where Scotland and Ireland lay down in bed together. Now, to bring about a confrontation with the remaining UK or just England..

If you wanted a less anti-nuclear Scotland, maybe one of the other UK posters could suggest something. I live too near the Scots border to see that policy shift. What I do see however as an outsider to the region here is the centuries old hatred because of the old reivers and the results of those marauding raids.

Chagos said:

Much renaming.

MacDonald would become (again) O'Donnell. :mrgreen:

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In my opinion you have that backwards... No good Scotsman would be caught dead changing their name from Mac to O'. (see what I did there) :shock:

The support for the Glasgow football club Celtic would markedly increase.

I thought Braveheart already settled this matter?

Abbazorkzog said:

What would happen if a resurgent Ireland were to annex an independent Scotland? This is purely theoretical and would not happen, so don't get mad or mistake my curiosity for ignorance (furthermore, how unrealistic it is is not the topic of this thread, the thread topic is what would happen if it did in a theoretical alternate history).

Brief Backstory Blurb:



Post your scenarios and or ideas.

Click to expand...

Why that way round? The warlike Scots would probably annex Ireland.

Infinite Chaos said:

There are probably quite a few Westminster politicians who would wish the same.



Hmm.. Ireland was Internationally neutral and I don't recall whether there is a huge movement towards taking sides. Russia would probably go with overtures than arm twisting and that is where the SNP also wish to head (neutrality)

So, your scenario would be the forthcoming referendum has resulted in the UK walking away from the EU; Scotland votes to leave the UK and seeks alliances with Gaelic and friendly neighbours. This could be where Scotland and Ireland lay down in bed together. Now, to bring about a confrontation with the remaining UK or just England..

If you wanted a less anti-nuclear Scotland, maybe one of the other UK posters could suggest something. I live too near the Scots border to see that policy shift. What I do see however as an outsider to the region here is the centuries old hatred because of the old reivers and the results of those marauding raids.

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There is a strand of English opinion which would see separation from the EU and separation from Scotland as a double win. I do not think that anyone would have the least objection to a Scottish/Irish Union. As we both know if the referendum had gone the other way the British government would have accepted an independent Scotland, free to decide its own alliances, without demur.

Abbazorkzog said:

What would happen if a resurgent Ireland were to annex an independent Scotland? This is purely theoretical and would not happen, so don't get mad or mistake my curiosity for ignorance (furthermore, how unrealistic it is is not the topic of this thread, the thread topic is what would happen if it did in a theoretical alternate history).

Brief Backstory Blurb:



Post your scenarios and or ideas.

Click to expand...

Presuming Scotland was annexed without consent that would technically be an attack on NATO (thus invoking collective self defence) why do you ask?

Beaudreaux said:

In my opinion you have that backwards... No good Scotsman would be caught dead changing their name from Mac to O'. (see what I did there) :shock:

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Hehe, the Scots are all Irish anyway (historically speaking). Norse influx notwithstanding.

Of course the migrations worked both ways, long before "Anglish" influence.

Sweden said:

~ I do not think that anyone would have the least objection to a Scottish/Irish Union ~

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All depends on what happens regarding the protestant population in Northern Ireland - If the Scottish/Irish union decided to leave Northern Ireland alone as an exclave of the UK (like Russia's Kaliningrad) then there would be peace but if the catholic population decided to enforce the protestants becoming part of this union you would have another scenario for war which would draw the English in to defend those who wished to remain part of the remaining UK nation.

Infinite Chaos said:

All depends on what happens regarding the protestant population in Northern Ireland - If the Scottish/Irish union decided to leave Northern Ireland alone as an exclave of the UK (like Russia's Kaliningrad) then there would be peace but if the catholic population decided to enforce the protestants becoming part of this union you would have another scenario for war which would draw the English in to defend those who wished to remain part of the remaining UK nation.

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I think that is what I am going to go with as the catalyst for WW3. The Unionists are beaten and left in (strategically) tatters. A Northern Irish Englishman, Edmund Roman (former UKIP advisor to Putin) decides to forge an alliance between his party (Sinn Fein) and Fine Gael, via his ally climbing to the top of the political ladder in Fine Gael (who turns out to be his younger cousin twice removed). Russia provides funding and military equipment (in addition to the British providing 70% of their military equipment due to the "Russian threat", so it all ties in together) and the British Elite (like the former-Queen and Prince Philip/Prince Charles) are found to be supporting Chancellor Roman in an attempt to stymie English Anti-EU sentiment. Ed Roman is of course a fictional character I engineered to represent the western support of The Kremlin, and thusly so represents the ultimate hole punctured in Western Alliance against Russia. For the UK bolsters a qualitative superiority to China - and dividing it presents an ample opportunity for the Kremlin to present itself as an equal contender (with help from Ireland, of course) to the West as the Warsaw Pact did in the Cold War era. Of course, the only way to do this would be to hijack the Vanguard-class subs and the Montana-class battleships (in this particular alt-history scenario, the DD takes the Cuban Missile Crisis VERY seriously, and reactivates the battleship program, which eventually ends up being sold to the UK in 2014 in response to the Russian aggression of this era and US debt).

Infinite Chaos said:

All depends on what happens regarding the protestant population in Northern Ireland - If the Scottish/Irish union decided to leave Northern Ireland alone as an exclave of the UK (like Russia's Kaliningrad) then there would be peace but if the catholic population decided to enforce the protestants becoming part of this union you would have another scenario for war which would draw the English in to defend those who wished to remain part of the remaining UK nation.

Click to expand...

I think that is what I am going to go with as the catalyst for WW3. The Unionists are beaten and left in (strategically) tatters. A Northern Irish Englishman, Edmund Roman (former UKIP advisor to Putin) decides to forge an alliance between his party (Sinn Fein) and Fine Gael, via his ally climbing to the top of the political ladder in Fine Gael (who turns out to be his younger cousin twice removed). Russia provides funding and military equipment (in addition to the British providing 70% of their military equipment due to the "Russian threat", so it all ties in together) and the British Elite (like the former-Queen and Prince Philip/Prince Charles) are found to be supporting Chancellor Roman in an attempt to stymie English Anti-EU sentiment. Ed Roman is of course a fictional character I engineered to represent the western support of The Kremlin, and thusly so represents the ultimate hole punctured in Western Alliance against Russia. For the UK bolsters a qualitative superiority to China - and dividing it presents an ample opportunity for the Kremlin to present itself as an equal contender (with help from Ireland, of course) to the West as the Warsaw Pact did in the Cold War era. Of course, the only way to do this would be to hijack the Vanguard-class subs and the Montana-class battleships (in this particular alt-history scenario, the DD takes the Cuban Missile Crisis VERY seriously, and reactivates the battleship program, which eventually ends up being sold to the UK in 2014 in response to the Russian aggression of this era and US debt).

Abbazorkzog said:

I think that is what I am going to go with as the catalyst for WW3. The Unionists are beaten and left in (strategically) tatters. A Northern Irish Englishman, Edmund Roman (former UKIP advisor to Putin) decides to forge an alliance between his party (Sinn Fein) and Fine Gael, via his ally climbing to the top of the political ladder in Fine Gael (who turns out to be his younger cousin twice removed). Russia provides funding and military equipment (in addition to the British providing 70% of their military equipment due to the "Russian threat", so it all ties in together) and the British Elite (like the former-Queen and Prince Philip/Prince Charles) are found to be supporting Chancellor Roman in an attempt to stymie English Anti-EU sentiment. Ed Roman is of course a fictional character I engineered to represent the western support of The Kremlin, and thusly so represents the ultimate hole punctured in Western Alliance against Russia.

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The only way a UKIP member would also be part of Sinn Fein would be as an undercover agent.

Abbazorkzog said:

~ For the UK bolsters a qualitative superiority to China - and dividing it presents an ample opportunity for the Kremlin to present itself as an equal contender (with help from Ireland, of course) to the West as the Warsaw Pact did in the Cold War era ~

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I don't follow your sentence or what you are trying to do here?