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Class matters in England

Then perhaps you could point us in the direction of a law the House of Lords has 'made' in the last decade independently of the Commons. It hasn't, because it can't. I'm not disputing the undemocratic nature of the Lords, just your exaggeration and misconception of its role and importance.
I will do that if you can name a law that was made by the elected House of Commons independently of the appointed Lordships. You are attempting to deny that the Lords and Ladies make law by bringing-up the independent thing. Their Lordships make up part of Parliament. I am surprised you did not know this.
 
Just to clear up.. making a law is not the same as proposing a law. Yes the house of Lords "makes" or breaks laws (just ask Cameron), but it does not propose laws independently. That is parliament.
You are mistaken, Pete. Proposing legislation is not confined to members of the House of Commons as bills can and are introduced by unelected Lordships. "Bills may equally be introduced in the House of Lords". See Page 1: http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/hoflbpbillsandhow.pdf
 
Of course glass matters. Why on Earth would Brits not need glass? What a ridiculous idea for a threa....

...er...

oh...nevermind.
 
I will do that if you can name a law that was made by the elected House of Commons independently of the appointed Lordships. You are attempting to deny that the Lords and Ladies make law by bringing-up the independent thing. Their Lordships make up part of Parliament. I am surprised you did not know this.

Heinrich, I can't work out if you're genuinely confused about the constitutional functions of the various arms of British government, or if you are being intentionally perverse. Let's just put this to rest because we're in danger of derailing the thread with an argument over semantics.

The House of Commons instigates legislation and has primacy over the House of Lords, which does have a role in law-making, it just cannot make its own laws. I agree with you that it is not a democratic institution any more than the monarchy is. That doesn't mean that the UK's form of government itself is undemocratic.

Many people argue that it would be better to have an elected second chamber, some that having the second chamber removed from partisan politics is a distinct advantage to its oversight function and aids the democratic system, and there are others who think that since its judicial functions were derogated to the Supreme Court, it really doesn't have a function sufficiently important to justify its continuation and expense. Why 822 peers are required to provide oversight over 650 MPs is anyone's guess.
 
That doesn't mean that the UK's form of government itself is undemocratic.

It is.. that a party with 30% of the vote gets a majority of seats in your parliament means that the government is undemocratic :) Add to that, an unelected appointed by government second chamber... and you become even more undemocratic :)
 
It is.. that a party with 30% of the vote gets a majority of seats in your parliament means that the government is undemocratic :) Add to that, an unelected appointed by government second chamber... and you become even more undemocratic :)

Well, I agree to an extent. I'm using the expression 'democratic' as shorthand for 'liberal democratic', not to signify a very high degree of democracy, which very, very few polities in the world demonstrate.
 
I will do that if you can name a law that was made by the elected House of Commons independently of the appointed Lordships. You are attempting to deny that the Lords and Ladies make law by bringing-up the independent thing. Their Lordships make up part of Parliament. I am surprised you did not know this.

It is true that the House of Lords is an anachronism, but that doesn't the UK is undemocratic. The US has a similar holdover in the form of the electoral college, instituted for essentially the same reasons. Back then, the powers that be weren't sure if they could trust the unwashed masses with the vote, and so attempted to have some sort of safeguard in place to prevent foolishness. In the UK, that was the Lords, in Canada, the senate, and in the US, the electoral college. Americans do not directly elect a president, an appointee makes the final mark on ballot. Theoretically, college electors could ignore the public will, but it is hard to imagine this happening to any degree, and would likely only be once, because the system would be changed. So too with the House of Lords. They follow the public will by precedent and by, in some cases, law.
 
It is.. that a party with 30% of the vote gets a majority of seats in your parliament means that the government is undemocratic :) Add to that, an unelected appointed by government second chamber... and you become even more undemocratic :)

True, and another holdover from the past, as it worked with only two political parties, not so much with multiple parties. Some countries are now are going for proportional representation (like Canada presently), a much fairer system.
 
It does not happen that often because traditionally they dont.
You are mistaken once again, Pete:
Access to Palliative Care Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Baroness" Finlay of Llandaff
Accessible Sports Grounds Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Lord" Faulkner of Worcester
Advertising of Prostitution (Prohibition) Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Lord" McColl of Dulwich
Age of Criminal Responsibility Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Lord" Dholakia
Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Baroness" Cox
Armed Forces Deployment (Royal Prerogative) Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Baroness" Falkner of Margravine
Assisted Dying Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Lord" Falconer of Thoroton
Automatic Electoral Registration Bill [HL] 2015-16
Private Members' Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
"Baroness" McDonagh
Bills before Parliament 2015-16 ? UK Parliament

The above are bills updated last year beginning with the letter A. I could go on down the alphabet but you get the idea.
 
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