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French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections[W:95]

Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Chagos said:
More wiggling.

Quoting an article as saying something it does not say is basically lying. Exception would possibly be believing it to say what one understands, despite it clearly saying something else. That's just stupid.

Your equation to religious matter is merely obfuscating in your usual gish gallop manner and a case can be made that it's idiotic at that, too.
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I'm not wiggling. You are just not listening. Like it or not nothing in life is black and white, it is all shades of grey. Further, I posed a question to you in last post, a question you failed to answer.

If you state God does exist, I will say prove it. If, on the other hand you say God does not exist, I will again say prove it.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
I'm not wiggling. You are just not listening. Like it or not nothing in life is black and white, it is all shades of grey. Further, I posed a question to you in last post, a question you failed to answer.

If you state God does exist, I will say prove it. If, on the other hand you say God does not exist, I will again say prove it.
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Obfuscation, as before. You wanna discuss God, go to the appropriate forum. I'll answer anything there.

As to black, white and grey, lies are black. There is such a color in this context.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Chagos said:
Obfuscation, as before. You wanna discuss God, go to the appropriate forum. I'll answer anything there.

As to black, white and grey, lies are black. There is such a color in this context.
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I do not want to discuss God, and I believe you know that. I posed a question you cannot answer, because no matter how you answer you know you cannot support your answer. In short, you cannot prove it one way or the other. But then, the same applies to everyone else. This raises a point, a valid point that you refuse to accept. If those who preach the existence of God cannot prove such existence, are they liars?
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
I do not want to discuss God, .......................
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Then DON'T
If those who preach the existence of God cannot prove such existence, are they liars?
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If they claim they possess proof of existence, yes. By all counts.

Lying is knowing the truth but stating something completely different.

So if this whole irrelevant spin is aimed at you not knowing what is the truth, then fine.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Chagos said:
Then DON'TIf they claim they possess proof of existence, yes. By all counts.

Lying is knowing the truth but stating something completely different.

So if this whole irrelevant spin is aimed at you not knowing what is the truth, then fine.
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But there is no proof of such existence, none what-so-ever, or at least none I ever heard of. What about you? Have you sighted any such proof? Hence, I believe in absence of such proof some could argue they are lying, and that is what is relevant here, are those who publish any article lying, or are they publishing any article on belief of what they are told is the truth? I believe the legal term for latter is acting on good faith.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

PakPuk said:
Got any intellect/debate or just names and insults? Thought not.
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1.)Find it ironic you want more about the National Front, but literally in the next post all you say is "FN are not far right they are just right." :roll:
2.)Sure.
-I called them xenophobic. They are xenophobic by having a great distaste to anyone thats not from Europe. Fear of immigrants, they have called immigrants "mortal threat to civil peace in France".
-I call them far right wing. They are undoubtedly far right. Hold socially conservative values, ultra nationalists.
-I called them authoritarians. From their own website they believe in a "strong state". What do they mean by that? Well they say, "a strong state that has unified the nation, contain the feudal and communalism, annihilate tribalisation, develop our territory.". Then under their "security platform" they call for those who criticize the "authority of the state" to, "Worsening penalties for persons guilty of verbal or physical violence against a representative of the authority of the state"....

 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

First Denmark, now France – Europe's dominoes are falling one by one

Marine Le Pen is right to say that Brexit would sink the EU. If the Eurocrats have any sense they'll give David Cameron what he wants

How will the European Union elites respond to the extraordinary success of the Front National in France’s regional elections? If recent history is any guide, they will try to pretend it didn’t happen. It is almost an article of faith in Brussels to ignore the concerns of the people. They are not to be trusted – and if you doubt that, just look at the ghastly parties they vote for.

First Denmark, now France ? Europe's dominoes are falling one by one - Telegraph
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This one had just been released by Telegraph, and I had to laugh when I got to the part about faith. Those following the debate should know why.

Going on other articles, the success by FN has raised a storm, especially in France, as was reported by Financial Times. Needless to say there will be a lot of people watching the second round of regional elections in France next week. I will be one of them. It is clearly the one to watch.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
But there is no proof of such existence, none what-so-ever, or at least none I ever heard of. What about you? Have you sighted any such proof? Hence, I believe in absence of such proof some could argue they are lying, and that is what is relevant here, are those who publish any article lying, or are they publishing any article on belief of what they are told is the truth? I believe the legal term for latter is acting on good faith.
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You might consider relying more on what IS (by getting behind that thru research) than on what you or anybody else believes.

If, to stay with this totally unrelated and OT example here, you know you do not hold proof of anything, you cannot post it as representing the truth. Because you know that proof to be lacking.

You can of course state it as your belief, even adding that you hold it to represent truth. Yet presenting it as truth in this constellation constitutes lying.

The challenger always being in the better position here by default.

But that philosophical challenge is not your problem here, your problem lies in the tendency to distort. By either intentionally or unwittingly misunderstanding the content of what others have stated, subsequently twisting it to fit your own line of argument to then oppose an argument never actually made and doing so by further applying the same dishonest tactics.

From non-sequitur, to strawman, to slippery slope, to "ad popularum", to "shifting the burden" and even to ad hominem, there isn't a single logical fallacy that you do not introduce into your obfuscations over time.

To try and do yet another dodge around this sorry state of affairs by now attempting to introduce the relativity of truth via a totally unrelated issue is just downright sad.

Leading to the suspicion that you would be the last person that should now pontificate over "Good faith".
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
This one had just been released by Telegraph, and I had to laugh when I got to the part about faith. Those following the debate should know why.
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So what are you presenting this as? Your personal cause of merriment, an opinion piece like yours, an analysis worthy of appraisal. a load of tripe, truth (God forbid), what?

Please feel free to add anything I have failed to list.

There's so much wrong with the Telegraph's analysis (not surprising seeing how the real French fears find no address), I'll wait for you to pick what you agree with most.

Going on other articles, the success by FN has raised a storm, especially in France, as was reported by Financial Times. Needless to say there will be a lot of people watching the second round of regional elections in France next week. I will be one of them. It is clearly the one to watch.
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Well, for one thing it will be interesting to see whether expectations of more voters being raised than this time (even where this time showed improvement over 5 years ago) will find fulfilment.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Chagos said:
You might consider relying more on what IS (by getting behind that thru research) than on what you or anybody else believes.

If, to stay with this totally unrelated and OT example here, you know you do not hold proof of anything, you cannot post it as representing the truth. Because you know that proof to be lacking.

You can of course state it as your belief, even adding that you hold it to represent truth. Yet presenting it as truth in this constellation constitutes lying.

The challenger always being in the better position here by default.

But that philosophical challenge is not your problem here, your problem lies in the tendency to distort. By either intentionally or unwittingly misunderstanding the content of what others have stated, subsequently twisting it to fit your own line of argument to then oppose an argument never actually made and doing so by further applying the same dishonest tactics.

From non-sequitur, to strawman, to slippery slope, to "ad popularum", to "shifting the burden" and even to ad hominem, there isn't a single logical fallacy that you do not introduce into your obfuscations over time.

To try and do yet another dodge around this sorry state of affairs by now attempting to introduce the relativity of truth via a totally unrelated issue is just downright sad.

Leading to the suspicion that you would be the last person that should now pontificate over "Good faith".
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[
Closing comment

Parliament derives its power only from the consent of the people. The Crown cannot dissolve Parliament without the consent of Parliament, and Parliament consists of elected representatives of the people. That is, when Parliament consents to dissolving Parliament it is actually the people consenting to dissolving Parliament.

Throughout many debates, and not just on the European Union, the people have very clearly expressed their non-confidence in the Government and Politicians elected into office. The reasons for such non-confidence are numerous.

Depriving the people of Referendum on European Union is a violation of Government’s mandate. The act does not possess the consent of the people, and every Member of Parliament who voted against a Referendum on European Union violated the trust of the people by denying them the right to a vote on a matter that may have serious consequences for the people they were elected to represent.

The Prime Minister is reminded that the people are not requesting a Referendum on European Union, they demand it, as is their right. Should he fail to concede to the demands of the people, the people will petition the queen to dissolve Parliament and force an early election.
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Note 1: The PM referred to above was Gordon Brown.

Note 2: The Magna Carta predates Parliament and cannot be repealed (Do not confuse the Magna Carta with Magna Carta statute, as they are not the same thing.)

I am a little better informed than you think.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
Note 1: The PM referred to above was Gordon Brown.

Note 2: The Magna Carta predates Parliament and cannot be repealed (Do not confuse the Magna Carta with Magna Carta statute, as they are not the same thing.)

I am a little better informed than you think.
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What the flying fig does this totally unrelated stuff have to do with anything here?

Have you become totally confused?

The right of the British people to hold a referendum on the matter has not been a topic here and is related to France about as much as intelligence is to 100 yards of dirt path.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Chagos said:
What the flying fig does this totally unrelated stuff have to do with anything here?

Have you become totally confused?

The right of the British people to hold a referendum on the matter has not been a topic here and is related to France about as much as intelligence is to 100 yards of dirt path.
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My reasons for starting the petition to Her Majesty the Queen was to dissolve Parliament and force an early election that Prime Minister Cammeron and Conservative party would have won. This - going on Prime Minister Cammeron’s word - would have stopped the Lisbon Treaty. Note the Czech Prime Minister was holding out signing the Lisbon Treaty as long as he could for Cammeron to win power at the time. However, time was against me too, and to pursue the petition after the Czech Prime Minister was compelled to sign the Lisbon Treaty would not have been in the national interest. Hence, I terminated the petition on that basis. Note a copy of petition given below was sent to Her Majesty the Queen, the then Prime Minister Gordon Brown...

[Phoenix One UK] (Grey Sector 5)
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Nice debating with you, and I really do like this site, but time for me to move on. All the best everyone.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
Nice debating with you, and I really do like this site, but time for me to move on. All the best everyone.
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Well, I hope you get better. ;)
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Phoenix One UK said:
as was the case for UKIP, which in reality is a centre right party.
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Not. You haven't convinced me you're not a UKIP propagandist.
 
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Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Natan said:
Is a UKIP propagandist a bad thing?
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Make your own judgement.

He claims not to be a UKIP member, yet he's a one pony poster, obsessed with the EU, attaching whatever irrelevant topic to his anti-EU cause. Others here have disproved his many claims, proving his dishonesty. Maybe he's not a UKIP propagandist, but I personally don't trust him. And he spouts sheer excrement.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Natan said:
Is a UKIP propagandist a bad thing?
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Not necessarily, but lying about that would be.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Anybody remember when Mark Steyn predicted this.... a decade ago... and was a crazy nut-job fearmongerer?
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

imyoda said:
in France he FN is often referred to as France's Nazi Party
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The left had labelled Canada's former PM Harper as somewhat related to Supremacists. What else is new?
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

tosca1 said:
The left had labelled Canada's former PM Harper as somewhat related to Supremacists. What else is new?
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Voter: Hi can we just have more control on our borders?

Media establishment: HOW DARE YOU!? RIGHT WING. FASCIST, HEIL HITLER EXTREMIST, BIGOT, RACIST, SS GUARD

Voter: I am not scared by your propaganda. We already know you are discredited.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

PakPuk said:
FN are not far right they are just right.
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Have a look at its founder, anti-semetic, links with the OAS, admires Petain and dennies the holocaust. Far right seems like an understatement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen

Naturally they have toned down the retoric and focused on more socially acceptable forms of biggotry but god knows what they will be like when or if they come to power.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Red_Dave said:
Have a look at its founder, anti-semetic, links with the OAS, admires Petain and dennies the holocaust. Far right seems like an understatement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen

Naturally they have toned down the retoric and focused on more socially acceptable forms of biggotry but god knows what they will be like when or if they come to power.
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I said party policy, I judge a political party on its policies.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

Red_Dave said:
Naturally they have toned down the retoric and focused on more socially acceptable forms of biggotry (...)
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At least we're honest about that.
 
Re: French far-right makes major breakthrough to top regional elections

tosca1 said:
The left had labelled Canada's former PM Harper as somewhat related to Supremacists. What else is new?
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Try not trying to pull the string off-subject.......if you don't mind
 
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