Long term influence of Saudi Arabia behind radicalism in Belgium

Infinite Chaos · Nov 24, 2015

There are many reasons why Belgium has become a hotbed of radical Islamism. Some of the answers may lie in the implanting of Saudi Salafist preachers in the country from the 1960s.
Keen to secure oil contracts, Belgium’s King Baudouin made an offer to Saudi King Faisal, who had visited Brussels in 1967: Belgium would set up a mosque in the capital, and hire Gulf-trained clerics. Link.

The article even goes on to explain that Saudi Salfist clerics at the great mosque of Brussels helped prevent young Moroccans from integrating through virulent teachings.

We have had problems specifically with Saudi sponsored faith schools and imams in the UK, yet they remain as a country a huge buyer of our military hardware so they won't be turned away or challenged on their destabilising tactics and preachers.

The links from these mosques to attacks in Paris us still tenuous but we have a long term problem that we need to be more aware of.

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

Saudi Arabia should be heavily sanctioned and called out on the world stage. They are very identical to ISIS in ideology. Just this week they are going to behead a journalist for blasphemy. They have a sick, twisted culture and no western nation should call them our ally. Please also see my thread "Sanctions on Saudi Arabia" in the polls section.

joG · Nov 24, 2015

Infinite Chaos said:
The article even goes on to explain that Saudi Salfist clerics at the great mosque of Brussels helped prevent young Moroccans from integrating through virulent teachings.

We have had problems specifically with Saudi sponsored faith schools and imams in the UK, yet they remain as a country a huge buyer of our military hardware so they won't be turned away or challenged on their destabilising tactics and preachers.

The links from these mosques to attacks in Paris us still tenuous but we have a long term problem that we need to be more aware of.

It is true that traditional religions are as far removed from them as Sodom and in the same direction.

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

joG said:
It is true that traditional religions are as far removed from them as Sodom and in the same direction.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Natan · Nov 24, 2015

I think even without Saudi Arabia meddling, there would still be a problem. Dutch journalist Arthur van Amerongen and author of the book "Brussel: Eurabia", who speaks Arabic and went to live in Molenbeek to live among the people, already predicted in 2007 that there'd be an attack by Moroccans (I could post a link to a video with this very prediction, but it would violate forum policy, you can get in PM). The problem is their lack of integration, hatred for Belgians, and many of them displaying anti social behavior (petty crime and drugs). This is not the case in all muslim communities, the Turkish are much less of a problem for example. Morocco is of course a backwards Arabic speaking country in Africa while Turkey was long ago already modernized and secularized by Kemal Ataturk, who tried to emulate Europe.

joG · Nov 24, 2015

Shadowless said:
Can you explain what you mean by this?

It is not surprising that people of traditional religion dislike the idea of assimilation into what they consider a revoltingly travesty of human depredation and horrendous blasphemy. Don't forget that they can see, what our societies do to religion and the religious.

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

joG said:
It is not surprising that people of traditional religion dislike the idea of assimilation into what they consider a revoltingly travesty of human depredation and horrendous blasphemy. Don't forget that they can see, what our societies do to religion and the religious.

Oh ok. They should dislike the idea because we won't stand for their barbaric, irrational, nonsensical mythical practices of genital mutilation, covering women, beating up homosexuals, outlawing substances they don't like (alcohol). Where do they get these great ideas from? Oh yeah, a bronzed age book of fairy tales. None of it is real, so yes, we in the secular world have a duty to shake these people out of their trance.

The mistake the west made was letting these fanatics preach their crap in our countries.

joG · Nov 24, 2015

Shadowless said:
Oh ok. They should dislike the idea because we won't stand for their barbaric, irrational, nonsensical mythical practices of genital mutilation, covering women, beating up homosexuals, outlawing substances they don't like (alcohol). Where do they get these great ideas from? Oh yeah, a bronzed age book of fairy tales. None of it is real, so yes, we in the secular world have a duty to shake these people out of their trance.

The mistake the west made was letting these fanatics preach their crap in our countries.

Whatever. I was only explaining to you one reason it should not surprise you that traditionally inclined clerics would advise against integration.

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

joG said:
Whatever. I was only explaining to you one reason it should not surprise you that traditionally inclined clerics would advise against integration.

I understand and I appreciate you articulating it. if these clerics don't like secular culture which is partly what made the west great, they can go back to the middle east. They want to spread their crap throughout Europe, that is the idea. That's why there is so much resistance to multi-culturalissm, which ideally should be a great thing.

Chagos · Nov 24, 2015

Shadowless said:
Saudi Arabia should be heavily sanctioned and called out on the world stage. They are very identical to ISIS in ideology. Just this week they are going to behead a journalist for blasphemy. They have a sick, twisted culture and no western nation should call them our ally. Please also see my thread "Sanctions on Saudi Arabia" in the polls section.

The Saudi Royals can, with credibility, claim to have no hand in any of it.

What that does not address is that Saudi money, outside of government, has been financing mosques all over the world for years and delegating preachers to them.

The madrassas of Pakistan thus practically bore the Taliban (many of them orphaned child refugees from Absurdistan).

One also need see that the power balance of the Sauds is precarious and always has been, ever since they struck a coalition of sorts with Wahhabism as far back as the 1700s.

They're not even remotely inclined to curb the religious, if they did they might as well cut their own throats already.

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

Chagos said:
The Saudi Royals can, with credibility, claim to have no hand in any of it.

What that does not address is that Saudi money, outside of government, has been financing mosques all over the world for years and delegating preachers to them.

The madrassas of Pakistan thus practically bore the Taliban (many of them orphaned child refugees from Absurdistan).

One also need see that the power balance of the Sauds is precarious and always has been, ever since they struck a coalition of sorts with Wahhabism as far back as the 1700s.

They're not even remotely inclined to curb the religious, if they did they might as well cut their own throats already.

Good post. I think we know who our enemy should be. Saudi Arabia harbors ideologies incompatible with the civilized world. The west should sanction them and cut off all ties until they acknowledge this, and start on a course to correct the damage they have done. Until then, they can go to hell (if it existed).

Chagos · Nov 24, 2015

Shadowless said:
Good post. I think we know who our enemy should be. Saudi Arabia harbors ideologies incompatible with the civilized world. The west should sanction them and cut off all ties until they acknowledge this, and start on a course to correct the damage they have done. Until then, they can go to hell (if it existed).

I tend to agree.

Unfortunately there is still a vast dependence on oil in Europe alone. Theirs (the Saudis') and that of everybody else on the Arabian peninsula.

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

Chagos said:
I tend to agree.

Unfortunately there is still a vast dependence on oil in Europe alone. Theirs (the Saudis') and that of everybody else on the Arabian peninsula.

I think we will be more pressed to find energy elsewhere, which is entirely possible. We are hypocrites if we don't. We hate terrorism and radical Islam, but hold hands with the main country exporting that garbage.

Chagos · Nov 24, 2015

Shadowless said:
I think we will be more pressed to find energy elsewhere, which is entirely possible. We are hypocrites if we don't. We hate terrorism and radical Islam, but hold hands with the main country exporting that garbage.

.................. all of which leads to the motto of "go frack yerself" :mrgreen:

Shadowless · Nov 24, 2015

Chagos said:
.................. all of which leads to the motto of "go frack yerself" :mrgreen:

Hahahaha :hm

joG · Nov 25, 2015

Shadowless said:
Oh ok. They should dislike the idea because we won't stand for their barbaric, irrational, nonsensical mythical practices of genital mutilation, covering women, beating up homosexuals, outlawing substances they don't like (alcohol). Where do they get these great ideas from? Oh yeah, a bronzed age book of fairy tales. None of it is real, so yes, we in the secular world have a duty to shake these people out of their trance.

The mistake the west made was letting these fanatics preach their crap in our countries.

The thing is that they can find as many rude things to say about us as we about them.

joG · Nov 25, 2015

Shadowless said:
I understand and I appreciate you articulating it. if these clerics don't like secular culture which is partly what made the west great, they can go back to the middle east. They want to spread their crap throughout Europe, that is the idea. That's why there is so much resistance to multi-culturalissm, which ideally should be a great thing.

Actually the ethics that "made the West great" is considerably different than the one we now live by and probably closer to that of the clerics.

gunner · Nov 25, 2015

joG said:
It is not surprising that people of traditional religion dislike the idea of assimilation into what they consider a revoltingly travesty of human depredation and horrendous blasphemy. Don't forget that they can see, what our societies do to religion and the religious.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

joG · Nov 25, 2015

gunner said:
Can you explain what you mean by this?

What I meant was that we live according to a set of ethics that are irreconcilable with most religious tradition.

Montecresto · Nov 25, 2015

Where's all the right wing supporters of Saudi Arabia and the generational ties between the Bush family and the house of Saudi, lol.

jet57 · Nov 25, 2015

Infinite Chaos said:
The article even goes on to explain that Saudi Salfist clerics at the great mosque of Brussels helped prevent young Moroccans from integrating through virulent teachings.

We have had problems specifically with Saudi sponsored faith schools and imams in the UK, yet they remain as a country a huge buyer of our military hardware so they won't be turned away or challenged on their destabilising tactics and preachers.

The links from these mosques to attacks in Paris us still tenuous but we have a long term problem that we need to be more aware of.

The Salafists are strict fundamentalists like the Wahhabi. I don't think that such fundamentalism as preached by the Salafi can be blamed for terrorism any more than radical black churches could be blamed for the Symbionese Liberation Army. It's what people do and who they join up with that labels them. The Wahhabi have members who are known to have funneled money to ISIS and I think that the Paris attacks are more based on French policies and location.