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The smarter ones.....

DDD said:
From the source:





And



So "Yes" this are the times that the far right would like to exploit politically. The aim is to use the fear poised from the terrorists to their advantage to gain power by spreading hate and fear against Muslims and call liberals as blind not to see the "truth" that they should also act like the right-winged nuts.

It is tempting, especially in difficult, uncertain times, but it is not a solution. These extremists are used to the ME level oppression and the amount necessary to impress them with oppression is far above levels that European values of tolerance could consider inhumane.

My position is that "Yes" these countries should get smarter, but "No" turning all out right cannot be a solution because no amount of violence could impress these people that come from the oppressing lands of ME.
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You do realize that WWIII has begun....right? In a totally different kind of way, a gorilla war in an urban setting....with nutjobs bringing it.
 
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MickeyW said:
You do realize that WWIII has begun....right?
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World War 3? Sure, of course! ;)/sarcasm.

No, not really. We had WW1 over a few terrorist Serbian attacks. We should now know better not to engage the same away again. Serbia gained a lot from such attention, I do not see why we should give the freaks from the ME the same "gratitude."

MickeyW said:
In a totally different kind of way, a gorilla war in an urban setting....with nutjobs bringing it.
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There are various kinds of "nutjobs" that "bring it," yes.

But gorilla wars are fought with counter-terrorist mechanism that are available in every developed country. This is a job that they should handle and not a job that the whole country should be bothered with, and certainly not an issue that should sparkle what the terrorists want, which is: A grandiose war sparked by their ill intent.

We should not give them that much esteem. They should be handled normally with appropriate agencies while the majority of the countries mind their own business, including enjoying themselves. That would kill terrorism, knowing that they did not made an expected impact (they did not matter) and that countries are so strong that after mourning they move on.

Besides, as mentioned, right wing nuts do not have a better option anyway. Right wingers' strengths are military ops, conservatism, taking hold of liberties, and oppressing people. The people from ME and Africa have seen far worse and we may not be able to impress them with the degree of oppression used to tolerable levels as per European liberal standards (unless one re-considers gas chambers again [and I am skeptical that even those would impress them neither]).

So one sees Merkal saying "Nothing to see here" and is frustrated cause she appears like she does not wants to see and does not wants her people to see that these attacks never seem to stop. But what she and other Europe country leaders cannot tell you live and in media is their counter-terrorism preparations. Which brings the issue full circle to my position:

Wise up from these attacks "yes," go whole conservative and abandon European liberal values and turn Europe to an environment that the oppressed people in ME are more used to, "No."
 
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Grant said:
I'd say WWIV. World War IV: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism: Norman Podhoretz: 9780307386021: Books - Amazon.ca
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No need to play with numbers behind the two letters of "W," this is just a job for the counter-terrorism unit as mentioned in post 177 and now supported with this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/240119-french-doing-correct-thing.html

The counter-terrorism unit responded in a matter of hours! Meanwhile the rest of France should move on after mourning, which leads back to Merkel's claim "Nothing to see here."
 
AlbqOwl said:
Plenty of relationships are viable and enduring when people don't see eye to eye, but it requires that people be able to respect each other in disagreement. No two people, let alone groups or nations are going to see eye to eye and/or agree on everything. Sometimes the only option that includes mutual respect is to agree to disagree. So long as such disagreement does not violate the other's space, liberties, peace etc., there is no reason that a good relationship cannot endure amidst disagreement.

We don't have to believe as a Muslim believes in order to respect and enjoy a relationship with the Muslim. Nor does he have to believe as we believe. But if one decides that he will demand that we think, believe, speak, dress, behave etc. in a certain way or we will be punished or destroyed, there is absolutely no chance for any relationship but one that allows us to defend ourselves, our loved ones, our property. And if that requires denying the other access to us and ours or requires us to stop the other with bullets, so be it.
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That is straightforward sensible talk. Everyone should look to Europe to see what is happening there. This conversation we are having now took place in Europe a couple of decades ago.

Would they like a do-over there? I certainly think so.
 
DDD said:
No need to play with numbers behind the two letters of "W," this is just a job for the counter-terrorism unit as mentioned in post 177 and now supported with this thread:
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Communism was WWIII and this is WWIV.
The counter-terrorism unit responded in a matter of hours! Meanwhile the rest of France should move on after mourning, which leads back to Merkel's claim "Nothing to see here."
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Perhaps the counter terrorism unit should be there to prevent the attacks, not show up in a matter of hours after they've taken place.

And of course there is only one way for countries like the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to minimize the possibility of Islamic attacks, no?
 
Grant said:
Communism was WWIII and this is WWIV.Perhaps the counter terrorism unit should be there to prevent the attacks, not show up in a matter of hours after they've taken place.
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Yes they need to work on that, and this is the "get wise from attacks" part on my position.

Grant said:
And of course there is only one way for countries like the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to minimize the possibility of Islamic attacks, no?
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What is the proposal?
 
Grant said:
That is straightforward sensible talk. Everyone should look to Europe to see what is happening there. This conversation we are having now took place in Europe a couple of decades ago.

Would they like a do-over there? I certainly think so.
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Do you really think so? Do they really want to be any different than they are? I admit I always bristle a bit when somebody says we should be more like Europe. A bloody war was fought and the USA was created specifically so that we would have the right to be who we wanted to be and would not have to be like England or anybody else. Those who appreciate the concept of liberty intended for Americans understand the genius and blessing of being different in that regard.

So now the more 'liberal/progressive' folks on Facebook are excoriating those states who won't take Syrian refugees and are accusing and criticizing the 'heartless' souls of those of us and those members of Congress who think we should at least suspend taking in refugees until we have some means to know who we are taking in. But why is a French life or an American life or any other life less valuable than an Arab life in this matter? I honestly don't understand their reasoning or rationale. Compassion should be equally strong for the victims or potential victims of evil as it is for those already caught up in it.

States that are currently refusing to take Middle Eastern refugees and I think several more have been added since this graphic was published:

12244408_10153843570716336_7302577311696539892_o.png
 
AlbqOwl said:
Plenty of relationships are viable and enduring when people don't see eye to eye, but it requires that people be able to respect each other in disagreement. No two people, let alone groups or nations are going to see eye to eye and/or agree on everything. Sometimes the only option that includes mutual respect is to agree to disagree. So long as such disagreement does not violate the other's space, liberties, peace etc., there is no reason that a good relationship cannot endure amidst disagreement.

We don't have to believe as a Muslim believes in order to respect and enjoy a relationship with the Muslim. Nor does he have to believe as we believe. But if one decides that he will demand that we think, believe, speak, dress, behave etc. in a certain way or we will be punished or destroyed, there is absolutely no chance for any relationship but one that allows us to defend ourselves, our loved ones, our property. And if that requires denying the other access to us and ours or requires us to stop the other with bullets, so be it.
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Yet, the multicult members believe in a one way street. When westerners visit a Muslim country, we are required to display cultural sensitivity bordering upon the ridiculous. When Muslims move to the west we are required to display cultural sensitivity bordering upon the ridiculous.

When one culture believes in itself and another culture doesn't, what do people think is going to happen when the two collide? Believing in our own culture is now considered racist. Unless we abandon this very destructive meme, we are only destined to be pulled back into the dark ages.
 
William Rea said:
A national debate that you clearly want to exclude liberal thinking from. Way to go.
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Liberal thinking is fine. It's the bizarre Euro-Lefty anti-American crap that we can live without.
 
AlbqOwl said:
But I notice you didn't rebut the post but chose to attack me instead. It's THAT kind of liberal 'thinking' that I strongly object to and think should be eliminated from the national discussion.
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That isn't liberal thinking. It's hard core Far Left thinking.
 
Wiggen said:
Liberal thinking is fine. It's the bizarre Euro-Lefty anti-American crap that we can live without.
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Wiggen said:
That isn't liberal thinking. It's hard core Far Left thinking.
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This is a strange prejudice you advertise. It sounds like you want to censor a subset of liberalism for no discernible reason.

I don't want to purge far right thinking from public discourse. I want the public to identify good policies and discard bad ones. Sometimes it feels like republicans have more interest in their own pride than they do in doing right by Americans.
 
Wiggen said:
Liberal thinking is fine. It's the bizarre Euro-Lefty anti-American crap that we can live without.
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Yep.

The authoritarian left's knee-jerk defense of Islamism is anything BUT liberal.

Not unless you call the defending of practices that include forced marriages, female genital mutilation, honor killings and ruthless theocracies the stuff of liberalism, anyway.
 
starcitizen said:
Muslims come to the West in order to destroy it from within.
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And many muslims come to the west to buckle down, work hard, integrate and produce brilliant children like Chuka Umunna or Rachida Dati.
Given the ignorance you display, I assume you'll have to do a Google search to find out who they are. Or if you hang around long enough, Googling Grant will do it for you.
 
Wiggen said:
That isn't liberal thinking. It's hard core Far Left thinking.
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Unfortunately to often that is what most of those identified as 'liberal' have become in modern day America. Today Obama says in the same breath that "overblown rhetoric from Republicans could be a potent recruitment tool for the Islamic State group" and "Apparently Republicans are afraid of widows and orphans" and that is not offensive and overblown? But that is what 'liberal think' has become in modern day America.
 
MickeyW said:
You do realize that WWIII has begun....right? In a totally different kind of way, a gorilla war in an urban setting....with nutjobs bringing it.
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A gorilla war?
You're pretty knowledgeable about this subject, I see.
 
Chagos said:
That's still to come, so far it's been more like a chimp squabble.
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Why do I expect to see Charleton Heston wearing a skin loincloth?
 
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