Cameron's lack of detail on EU proposals

Two European leaders have told the BBC that the UK is yet to reveal any details about what it wants to achieve in a renegotiation with the EU.
Estonia and Finland's leaders say David Cameron has so far failed to provide concrete proposals. Link.

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I think it's high time Cameron started answering questions on just what kind of renegotiation he wants with the EU.

David Cameron said:

"Some people arguing for Britain to leave the European Union - not all people, but some people - have particularly pointed to the position of Norway saying that is a good outcome. I would guard very strongly against that.
"Norway actually pays as much per head to the EU as we do. They actually take twice as many per head migrants as we do in this country but of course they have no seat at the table, no ability to negotiate." Link.

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I get that the Norwegian deal is pretty much like membership and the accusation the deal struck by Norway was almost membership till the people voted against joining but what I'd like to know is that a British PM has a strategy in mind and is setting out on this strategy.

We certainly don't want "ever closer union" and the EU Vice President has admitted we will get this if we push for it but we need more. I also believe other EU nations will support some of these changes because they will be good for them too but the statements coming from the other nations shows we have an alarming lack of clarity and purpose.

Infinite Chaos said:

I think it's high time Cameron started answering questions on just what kind of renegotiation he wants with the EU.



I get that the Norwegian deal is pretty much like membership and the accusation the deal struck by Norway was almost membership till the people voted against joining but what I'd like to know is that a British PM has a strategy in mind and is setting out on this strategy.

We certainly don't want "ever closer union" and the EU Vice President has admitted we will get this if we push for it but we need more. I also believe other EU nations will support some of these changes because they will be good for them too but the statements coming from the other nations shows we have an alarming lack of clarity and purpose.

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You point out an interesting point that I have been thinking about as well. It cannot be that Cameron does not know that the public does not see much happening and has no real feeling for what he wants. I am not convinced, however, that the other os at least the main governments in the EU are not in discussions with him. It makes sense to hold such talks before showing your hand and were it to become a widely debated issue, we would see cracks in the EU tear out to be replaced with ravines between the pro and con groups in every country of the EU. Some would be swain by their normal resentment to British exception. But in the main field we would see a large vote forming against Deeper Union and for consolidation to the level of EC or earlier. This has become much more pronounced since the EU was shown to be dishonest and incompetent in the Euro crisis, the Ukraine, Syria and now the refugee situation.

The deeper EU would be a nice to have. There is no doubt there. But it has and continues to cost far too much and harm many too many citizens young and old alike and hurt foreigners indiscriminately to be justifiable. At least, that is increasingly the opinion of a growing number of citizens in Germany. So the discussions must be held very soto voce, or we could see a run on the EU.

joG said:

~ It makes sense to hold such talks before showing your hand

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The Finnish and Icelandic PMs have said there seems to clarity to the UK position. They are not like th "kick them on the way out" group, they are interested but have no information on Cameron's hand.

joG said:

~ The deeper EU would be a nice to have. There is no doubt there.

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There is, why would anyone want a deeper integrated EU unless you were after a United States of Europe?

Infinite Chaos said:

The Finnish and Icelandic PMs have said there seems to clarity to the UK position. They are not like th "kick them on the way out" group, they are interested but have no information on Cameron's hand.



There is, why would anyone want a deeper integrated EU unless you were after a United States of Europe?

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I thought about it and must admit, that in some ways a United Europe could be more dangerous, do more harm and create more problems, than it would be worth. So I stand corrected.


PS: Finland and Iceland are not the countries one would talk to first.

joG said:

I thought about it and must admit, that in some ways a United Europe could be more dangerous, do more harm and create more problems, than it would be worth. So I stand corrected.

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Thank you. the point could be made that the EU is not on a one way trip to a federal superstate but why else is "ever deeper union" an aim?

joG said:

~ PS: Finland and Iceland are not the countries one would talk to first.

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Who then? Germany? Merkel is at heart very pro EU and although she made the right noises to Cameron a year or so ago, she swept the rug from under his feet.

France and Hollande would rather kick us on the way down but they would need us yet again if ever France was at war.

Who then? Iceland is outside and does not have to pay what Norway and Switzerland pays to the EU.

Infinite Chaos said:

Thank you. the point could be made that the EU is not on a one way trip to a federal superstate but why else is "ever deeper union" an aim?



Who then? Germany? Merkel is at heart very pro EU and although she made the right noises to Cameron a year or so ago, she swept the rug from under his feet.

France and Hollande would rather kick us on the way down but they would need us yet again if ever France was at war.

Who then? Iceland is outside and does not have to pay what Norway and Switzerland pays to the EU.

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If Cameron can get the large countries' support the small ones will go along.