Who will be the next UK Prime Minister? How will you vote?

The countdown continues, we had a 2 hour, 7 way debate which had some sparkling moments (Leanne Wood and Nicola Sturgeon smacking Nigel Farage down) and a whole load of jockeying for position among the candidates - Ms Wood playing Plaid Cymru's position in Wales against labour and Nicola Sturgeon making a play for disgruntled Labour voters in Scotland.

We also had Mr Farage appealing most successfully to his own voters and pretty much alienating everyone else with his performance on the big ITV debate.

My partner is voting Labour even though she knows and dislikes the candidate while I am voting Conservative as I like the candidates record on enterprise and youth opportunity. I don't like Cameron and my partner doesn't like Milliband. I really think we are heading for coalition Govt again and I think it will be the best result.

How will you use your vote and why? What do you think the position will be on Friday 08th May (the election is on the 07th)

Infinite Chaos said:

The countdown continues, we had a 2 hour, 7 way debate which had some sparkling moments (Leanne Wood and Nicola Sturgeon smacking Nigel Farage down) and a whole load of jockeying for position among the candidates - Ms Wood playing Plaid Cymru's position in Wales against labour and Nicola Sturgeon making a play for disgruntled Labour voters in Scotland.

We also had Mr Farage appealing most successfully to his own voters and pretty much alienating everyone else with his performance on the big ITV debate.

My partner is voting Labour even though she knows and dislikes the candidate while I am voting Conservative as I like the candidates record on enterprise and youth opportunity. I don't like Cameron and my partner doesn't like Milliband. I really think we are heading for coalition Govt again and I think it will be the best result.

How will you use your vote and why? What do you think the position will be on Friday 08th May (the election is on the 07th)

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Funny. The UK is doing best among European countries. The only thing that is difficult is the mess with the Lisbon Treaty, the fallout from it and no easy way out.

joG said:

Funny. The UK is doing best among European countries. .

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How do you figure?

Red_Dave said:

How do you figure?

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Look at the growth.

Infinite Chaos said:

The countdown continues, we had a 2 hour, 7 way debate which had some sparkling moments (Leanne Wood and Nicola Sturgeon smacking Nigel Farage down) and a whole load of jockeying for position among the candidates - Ms Wood playing Plaid Cymru's position in Wales against labour and Nicola Sturgeon making a play for disgruntled Labour voters in Scotland.

We also had Mr Farage appealing most successfully to his own voters and pretty much alienating everyone else with his performance on the big ITV debate.

My partner is voting Labour even though she knows and dislikes the candidate while I am voting Conservative as I like the candidates record on enterprise and youth opportunity. I don't like Cameron and my partner doesn't like Milliband. I really think we are heading for coalition Govt again and I think it will be the best result.

How will you use your vote and why? What do you think the position will be on Friday 08th May (the election is on the 07th)

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What exactly do you feel the tories offer young people? Right now, most people in their early 20's, even those with advanced degrees, are flailing around doing PA/assistant/bookings jobs. In the meantime, the government is heartily letting them know it's because of laziness, not because of the lack of absence of actual graduate jobs. There is an affordable housing crisis as anything a first time buyer could ever hope to move into quickly gets snapped up by developers. The EU referendum is almost irrelevant to millennials. We are far less scared of the EU than any other demographic.

I do think the tories have actually done a decent job but don't see how they appeal at all to anyone under 35 (or with the interests of under 35s at heart)

I think Cameron wins another term.

I have to admit, I feel sorry for the UK this election.

Cameron is a dick, Miliband is a knob, Clegg is an asshole and everyone else is a no hope.

But Cameron is the most "leaderish" of a bad bunch.

I will say this though, if David Miliband had won the Labour Leadership contest, Labour would be looking real good right now.

David is a guy I could get behind.

Nilly said:

What exactly do you feel the tories offer young people?

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I spoke about my local candidate - he is very much in favour of young enterprise, developing jobs and employment opportunities.

On the other hand - and this is not defending the tories on young people - apprenticeships coming out of schools was a good step, the one good thing Michael Gove did was to kill "Key Skills" and just put the emphasis on GCSE English and Maths. I've been in education (16-19 sector) for years and seen all governments waste vast amounts on pushing numeracy and literacy on kids who didn't want to do them. Now, blocking progress to level 3 or University without GCSE English and Maths has made them take it more seriously.
Education has played a game for the last 15 years where teachers and tutors had to try and get students to engage with literacy and numeracy without much success. These last two years have been a revelation - full classes in colleges and students actually trying to pass.

Nilly said:

-- Right now, most people in their early 20's, even those with advanced degrees, are flailing around doing PA/assistant/bookings jobs. In the meantime, the government is heartily letting them know it's because of laziness, not because of the lack of absence of actual graduate jobs.

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There is a recognition at last that University is not universal - that apprenticeships and other paths into jobs should be offered. Not everyone should go the graduate route. We looked at Germany 15 years ago and decided Germany's technical and apprenticeship program was a good thing to emulate and then.... pushed the degree route only. Utter stupidity by all governments till the Wolf report 4 years ago.

Nilly said:

There is an affordable housing crisis as anything a first time buyer could ever hope to move into quickly gets snapped up by developers.

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That housing crisis is decades old.

joG said:

Look at the growth.

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Of food banks?

Infinite Chaos said:

I spoke about my local candidate - he is very much in favour of young enterprise, developing jobs and employment opportunities.

On the other hand - and this is not defending the tories on young people - apprenticeships coming out of schools was a good step, the one good thing Michael Gove did was to kill "Key Skills" and just put the emphasis on GCSE English and Maths. I've been in education (16-19 sector) for years and seen all governments waste vast amounts on pushing numeracy and literacy on kids who didn't want to do them. Now, blocking progress to level 3 or University without GCSE English and Maths has made them take it more seriously.
Education has played a game for the last 15 years where teachers and tutors had to try and get students to engage with literacy and numeracy without much success. These last two years have been a revelation - full classes in colleges and students actually trying to pass.

There is a recognition at last that University is not universal - that apprenticeships and other paths into jobs should be offered. Not everyone should go the graduate route. We looked at Germany 15 years ago and decided Germany's technical and apprenticeship program was a good thing to emulate and then.... pushed the degree route only. Utter stupidity by all governments till the Wolf report 4 years ago.

That housing crisis is decades old.

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The minimum (read: standard) wage for an apprentice in their teen years, or in their 20's but in their first year, is £2.73. That's around half the minimum wage of your average 18 year old working at Sainsburies. Furthermore, if you start an apprenticeship as a teenager your family stop earning child benefits, unlike if you were to carry on at college. My cousin did an apprenticeship and it's really not some unused goldmine of jobs outside of the uni/graduate sphere. Unless it gets some serious support (and I mean actual support forit, not just a disenfranchisement of the alternatives) then it's not the magical answer that it is oft quoted as. People in apprenticeships does not guarantee a working Britain.

As for the housing crisis, yes it has been around for decades. But it's worse than ever. In the early 80's, the Thatcher government found it necessary to start the right-to-buy scheme. The scheme has plenty of flaws (mainly the fact that it was a one time use release valve, it's effectiveness has trailed off exponentially) but it was deemed necessary when the market was nothing like it is now. House building is at it's lowest in years. Maybe if we start building them we can put all the apprentices who still live with their parents to work?

It's great that your local MP is in favor of young enterprise, and it may even be the case that a Tory government is the right thing for the UK in general (we have been a lot more successful that the rest of Europe) but the conservatives are not a party for the young.

Jetboogieman said:

I think Cameron wins another term.

I have to admit, I feel sorry for the UK this election.

Cameron is a dick, Miliband is a knob, Clegg is an asshole and everyone else is a no hope.

But Cameron is the most "leaderish" of a bad bunch.

I will say this though, if David Miliband had won the Labour Leadership contest, Labour would be looking real good right now.

David is a guy I could get behind.

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Cameron has already said he won't run for a third term. A Tory win would likely mean Boris Johnson as PM, possibly George Osborne or Theresa May.

As for Milliband, similar to you, I want to like labour, but he's kind of an obstacle. For most of the debate the other day I felt like he was touching up my leg with his eyes.

Nilly said:

Cameron has already said he won't run for a third term. A Tory win would likely mean Boris Johnson as PM, possibly George Osborne or Theresa May.

As for Milliband, similar to you, I want to like labour, but he's kind of an obstacle. For most of the debate the other day I felt like he was touching up my leg with his eyes.

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I laughed my ass off.

Thanks for that.

Red_Dave said:

Of food banks?

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At least they can afford to feed them and give them medical treatment. Not so good in some other countries in Europe. And in any event, the rate of people employed was the highest in January since 1971 and people from all over the eu have been pouring in.

So they seem to be doing something right.
One was to stay out of the euro.

Nilly said:

The minimum (read: standard) wage for an apprentice in their teen years, or in their 20's but in their first year, is £2.73. That's around half the minimum wage of your average 18 year old working at Sainsburies.

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Of course, but there are apprenticeships up here in the North paying around £13,400 rising to £24,000 at Unilever or the engineering apprenticeships up here at Gen2, or at Barrow working in the submarine and naval industries. These are genuine apprenticeships where there are skills shortages and I have to add that some of these companies struggle to fill the posts.

Equally - compare an apprenticeship paying £2.73 an hour with getting nothing as a student in the same time.. We're probably talking hairdressing / social care type apprenticeships at those rates. Students in colleges doing a level 2 course (in hairdressing) have to find £1400 in uniform and material costs. An apprentice in a salon will have all that provided by their employer.

Nilly said:

-- Furthermore, if you start an apprenticeship as a teenager your family stop earning child benefits, unlike if you were to carry on at college.

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As a divorced father who paid child support for 08 years, I can tell you where that child benefit payment actually comes from... I had to go through all the mechanisms when my two boys chose to come live with me a few years ago. I don't have the same rose tinted view of child benefit payments that many do.

Nilly said:

-- My cousin did an apprenticeship and it's really not some unused goldmine of jobs outside of the uni/graduate sphere. Unless it gets some serious support (and I mean actual support forit, not just a disenfranchisement of the alternatives) then it's not the magical answer that it is oft quoted as. People in apprenticeships does not guarantee a working Britain.

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That's not what I'm claiming, but there are good apprenticeships out there and there are also quite a few unfilled in IT, Engineering and Construction. We have major shortages which means that a brickie in London can claim up to £80,000 or more a year.

Nilly said:

As for the housing crisis, yes it has been around for decades. But it's worse than ever. In the early 80's, the Thatcher government found it necessary to start the right-to-buy scheme. The scheme has plenty of flaws (mainly the fact that it was a one time use release valve, it's effectiveness has trailed off exponentially) but it was deemed necessary when the market was nothing like it is now. House building is at it's lowest in years.

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Again, this is a long term problem which afflicted all governments. It's like the NHS - people want these things but don't want to pay the taxes to support them. I remember in the '80s reading a report about how people wouldn't vote for parties asking for higher taxes to support the NHS. House building for social housing is something that has to be subsidised and that meant taxes. At every turn, the electorate voted for parties promising lower taxes.

Nilly said:

-- Maybe if we start building them we can put all the apprentices who still live with their parents to work?

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Read my comment above, I know I paid the child benefit and I know where the rebate came from due to my long term involvement with the CSA.

Nilly said:

It's great that your local MP is in favor of young enterprise, and it may even be the case that a Tory government is the right thing for the UK in general (we have been a lot more successful that the rest of Europe) but the conservatives are not a party for the young.

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Although I am voting conservative, I think a coalition will actually be better for us. the question in my mind is which coalition it will be.

Gonna be an interesting evening/night/day.. hell week. Latest is that Nigel "the liar" Farage wont even win his own seat... lol.

joG said:

At least they can afford to feed them and give them medical treatment. Not so good in some other countries in Europe. And in any event, the rate of people employed was the highest in January since 1971 and people from all over the eu have been pouring in.

So they seem to be doing something right.
One was to stay out of the euro.

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Would be interested to know where you are getting those stats from, and on the contrary last years supposed 'flood' of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants never came, despite the widespread predictions they would arrive en masse after gaining the right to do so. Likewise immigration from Poland is beginging to tail off.

For one thing it would be useful to know how many of those jobs are full time, Toby Zeigler once put it* 'Thank you mister president for all those jobs! I've got three of them and can't make my house payments'

*or would have done were he not, regretably, fictional.

Red_Dave said:

Would be interested to know where you are getting those stats from, and on the contrary last years supposed 'flood' of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants never came, despite the widespread predictions they would arrive en masse after gaining the right to do so. Likewise immigration from Poland is beginging to tail off.

For one thing it would be useful to know how many of those jobs are full time, Toby Zeigler once put it* 'Thank you mister president for all those jobs! I've got three of them and can't make my house payments'

*or would have done were he not, regretably, fictional.

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Anecdotes with fictional characters are always good story board. You can always make them fit.

My money's on Miliband. Piss weak nothing little clown that he is. They're all a joke. There's virtually nothing to tell any of them apart.

Scum.

I find the debate slightly higher quality relative to our national election debates.

British Party Leaders' Election Debate
April 2, 2015 - ITV
Salford, NorthWest England

British Political Party Leaders' Pre-election | Video | C-SPAN.org

Red_Dave said:

Would be interested to know where you are getting those stats from, and on the contrary last years supposed 'flood' of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants never came, despite the widespread predictions they would arrive en masse after gaining the right to do so. Likewise immigration from Poland is beginging to tail off.

For one thing it would be useful to know how many of those jobs are full time, Toby Zeigler once put it* 'Thank you mister president for all those jobs! I've got three of them and can't make my house payments'

*or would have done were he not, regretably, fictional.

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The stats are from ONS, but highly selective. For example the "flooding" based on total numbers of 298k or so last quarter. What the doomsdayers forget to mention is the actual facts.

For example there is actually a fleeing of Brits from the UK... did you know that? 140kish Brits left the UK in 3rd quarter 2014.. but only 90ishk returned. This has been going on for a long long time.

Or that 90k EU citizens left the UK in the 3rd quarter 2014? You wont hear that statistic much. You will hear that 250kish EU citizens arrived.. but that only makes 160k net gain out of a population of 66 million.. hardly a "flood".

But what of the one place the UK government can control its borders.. non-EU immigration.. oh yea that has shot up and has always been the largest part of the net immigration... something you NEVER hear..

PeteEU said:

The stats are from ONS, but highly selective. For example the "flooding" based on total numbers of 298k or so last quarter. What the doomsdayers forget to mention is the actual facts.

For example there is actually a fleeing of Brits from the UK... did you know that? 140kish Brits left the UK in 3rd quarter 2014.. but only 90ishk returned. This has been going on for a long long time.

Or that 90k EU citizens left the UK in the 3rd quarter 2014? You wont hear that statistic much. You will hear that 250kish EU citizens arrived.. but that only makes 160k net gain out of a population of 66 million.. hardly a "flood".

But what of the one place the UK government can control its borders.. non-EU immigration.. oh yea that has shot up and has always been the largest part of the net immigration... something you NEVER hear..

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I remember reading an article on how a Spectator journalist planned to ask Farage why he never raised non-EU migration. I also notice that in the recent leader's debate, Farage didn't really push the agenda of working with commonwealth countries if we left the EU. He really was just pushing the anti-immigration ticket.

Anyone else bored of the constant attacks against UKIP on Social media, BBC, the Guardian etc. Becoming a smear campaign.

Higgins86 said:

-- constant attacks against UKIP --

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I suppose now they have a large proportion of potential voters their policies will come under scrutiny. Similarly, the LibDems have dropped to 8% so they are featuring a lot less in the public eye.

Higgins86 said:

-- Becoming a smear campaign --

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Farage didn't help during the leaders debate with his HIV comment and it's becoming clear they are a single issue party - no real policies being put forward anywhere else on anything else.

Interesting preview to tonight's Scotland debates on STV: the SNP could be sending up to 40 members of Parliament to Westminster if they do well in the general election.

Jim Murphy of Labour expected to go on the attack as Labour needs those seats to add to Ed Milliband's numbers in his quest for No 10.

Another interesting element is the relationship of the leader of the SNP in Westminster's parliament vis-a-vis the leader of the SNP in Holyrood's parliament..

Higgins86 said:

Anyone else bored of the constant attacks against UKIP on Social media, BBC, the Guardian etc. Becoming a smear campaign.

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Well I would not call them attacks.. UKIP candidates are mostly a bunch of wierdos with strange comments at best.

I watched the Scottish party leaders debate last night - that showed how the first Westminster debate should have been run.

The leaders had to answer questions from the public and nobody got an easy ride. Nicola Sturgeon had a much tougher time than she had on the national debate but then all the party leaders had a grilling. They also had time to debate each other.

The host was very professional too and challenged the representatives when they wouldn't answer public questions. Several stand out moments - the public groan when she dodged after a young man asked Nicola Sturgeon whether she would honour the referendum just held, Jim Murphy trying to dodge a yes or no question from Nicola Sturgeon about any potential power sharing with the SNP..

The absence of UKIP was notable - UKIP's standing means nothing outside of England if they cannot hope to win seats in Scotland or Wales and the Tory leader being pretty much the sole conservative person in Scotland.

The Lib Dem leader had the same heckling about the student fees debacle - however none of the other parties have faced such ridicule about their broken promises. It seems the Lib Dems will pay a heavy price at the General election for power sharing with the conservatives and everyone seems to hold them to a higher standard than all other parties.