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Crimea

Simpleχity;1064005127 said:
Probably because being screwed-over is Russian normalcy.
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So the Ukrainian Crimea Russians go with a "I do not mind being screwed-over, as long as it is Russian."

How long do you think they will need to suffer until they grip reality?
 
DDD said:
So the Ukrainian Crimea Russians go with a "I do not mind being screwed-over, as long as it is Russian."

How long do you think they will need to suffer until they grip reality?
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Seems you guys even didn't bother to read the report. It's almost all about Crimean Tatars. Not Russians. And all the same old stories since March - this one disappeared, this one was beaten and so on. Some of disappeared Tatars are the members of Islamist organization Hizb-ut-Takhrir which is prohibited in Russia for terrorism but was legal in Ukraine. Highly likely some of these disappeared men are now in Syria or in Iraq. For example, the brother of Islyam Dzhepparov, who was ostensibly kidnapped according to HRW report, was killed in Syria in 2013. In Syria Abdulla Djepparov fought against government forces. Ukraine's authorities gave legal status to terrorists of Hizb ut Takhrir - just for having them against Russians in the peninsula, like a balance. Now all this sh*t must be cleaned as an unwishful legacy of 23-year Ukrainian occupation.
 
MrFirst said:
Seems you guys even didn't bother to read the report. It's almost all about Crimean Tatars.
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So nice that it is not about Russians. Tatars can suffer as long as it is not Russians!

MrFirst said:
Not Russians. And all the same old stories since March - this one disappeared, this one was beaten and so on.
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Daily events, nothing new here. Just some Tatars being bullied, force assimilated, and made to disappear all over again.

MrFirst said:
Some of disappeared Tatars are the members of Islamist organization Hizb-ut-Takhrir which is prohibited in Russia for terrorism but was legal in Ukraine. Highly likely some of these disappeared men are now in Syria or in Iraq. For example, the brother of Islyam Dzhepparov, who was ostensibly kidnapped according to HRW report, was killed in Syria in 2013.
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A good description of Russomorphic terrorism.

MrFirst said:
In Syria Abdulla Djepparov fought against government forces. Ukraine's authorities gave legal status to terrorists of Hizb ut Takhrir - just for having them against Russians in the peninsula, like a balance. Now all this sh*t must be cleaned as an unwishful legacy of 23-year Ukrainian occupation.
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After the terrorists are made they should be "cleaned." Very sorry for Russians since we had to put them in a position to do these "chores."
 
DDD said:
Russia will drain that island dry. The Russian "majority" there will also suffer. Why do they always fall for pro-Russian propaganda BS when this is ultimately the result?
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Good point.

My guess is if the property exporpriations continue, Crimea is going to experience a "brain drain" where everybody with brains and ability will start to leave for either Kyiev or Moscow.

This then makes skilled people even harder to find, which then impacts even more small and midsize businesses. If the dwindling tax base can't pay the local "internal security" forces, they are going to need to collect their own wages (via property siezures, of course). This then causes more talent flight. Which leads to more property siezures.... .
 
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Cryptic said:
Good point.

My guess is if the property exporpriations continue, Crimea is going to experience a "brain drain" where everybody with brains and ability will start to leave for either Kyiev or Moscow.

This then makes skilled people even harder to find, which then impacts even more small and midsize businesses. If the dwindling tax base can't pay the local "internal security" forces, they are going to need to collect their own wages (via property siezures, of course). This then causes more talent flight. Which leads to more property siezures.... .
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You just explained what happened to Dardania ever since its separation from Albania in 1878.
 
This is the "happy life" in "democratic" "European" Ukraine that the Crimeans fled from.

Korsun-Shevchenko pogrom.

In the night of 20 to 21 February 2014 activists of Euromaidan stopped buses near the town of Korsun-Schewtschenkowskiy, in which several hundred opponents of Euromaidan returned from Kiev to the Crimea. The armed men took over the buses and burned them down. To all people located therein (approximately 350 people), including women and young people, waited cruel beatings and harassment.

The documentary has English subs.


Here the actual footage about how the Ukrainian "democrats" with clubs and guns tought Crimeans to love Ukraine.

 
Muslims, Christians face new crackdown in Crimea

Since Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March, religious groups there – aside from the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) – are facing persecution, and restrictions on their ministry. Religious communities in Crimea face an uncertain legal framework – they are unsure of what laws must be observed. Catholics, Ukrainian Orthodox of the Kyiv Patriarchate, and Muslims are all facing persecution from local authorities, and anticipate that they may have to go underground next year.
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In addition to persecutions against Ukrainians and Taters, religious persecution is also increasing.
 
Sofia Kochmar, the Lvov journalist, works for Catholic newspaper. She cares about her Church in Crimea.

Meanwhile, during last months tens of churches of Orthodox Church were seized in Ukraine by nationalists. Mostly that happens in western Ukraine.

Police-backed Ukrainian thugs seize Orthodox Church building, injure priest

Turka, Lvov Province, October 2, 2014

In the town of Turka near Lvov, Ukraine, a group of fifty athletic-looking men, with the support of the local police, have forcibly seized the Church of the Protection of the Mother of God, Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Moscow Patriarchate, as reported by news agency Interfax-Religion, citing the Russian website National Control.

In the process, the priest of the church was physically injured, the church closed, and the parishioners forbidden to enter their church. According to information published by the agency, some of the attackers were Greek Catholics (Uniates).

Police-backed Ukrainian thugs seize Orthodox Church building, injure priest | Opinion - Conservative
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In the town of Turka, Lvov region, the Right Sector seized the Church of Moscow Patriarchate: Police-backed Ukrainian thugs seize Orthodox Church building, injure priest� - YouTube

Also seizures took place in Ternopol, Rovno, Cherkassy regions.

A church in Ternopol region in the Ukraine seized by

In Cherkassy region of the Ukraine parishioners prevented seizure of a church / OrthoChristian.Com

A temple of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been seized by the

Orthodox church being seized near Kiev / OrthoChristian.Com

In Donetsk and Lugansk Ukrainian troops burnt tens of churches, like this beautiful wooden church:



And Sofia Kochmar, Catholic journalist from Lvov, cares about her Church in Crimea.
 
MrFirst said:
Meanwhile, during last months tens of churches of Orthodox Church were seized in Ukraine by nationalists. Mostly that happens in western Ukraine.
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All violence against religion is wrong. But this thread is not about what goes on elsewhere.

It is about *Crimea* which is currently "administered" by *Russia*.

Your repeated deflections only serve to highlight your consternation and embarrassment at what is being revealed about Russian repressions in Crimea.
 
MrFirst said:
This is the "happy life" in "democratic" "European" Ukraine that the Crimeans fled from.

Korsun-Shevchenko pogrom.

In the night of 20 to 21 February 2014 activists of Euromaidan stopped buses near the town of Korsun-Schewtschenkowskiy, in which several hundred opponents of Euromaidan returned from Kiev to the Crimea. The armed men took over the buses and burned them down. To all people located therein (approximately 350 people), including women and young people, waited cruel beatings and harassment.

The documentary has English subs.


Here the actual footage about how the Ukrainian "democrats" with clubs and guns tought Crimeans to love Ukraine.

Click to expand...


MrFirst said:
Sofia Kochmar, the Lvov journalist, works for Catholic newspaper. She cares about her Church in Crimea.

Meanwhile, during last months tens of churches of Orthodox Church were seized in Ukraine by nationalists. Mostly that happens in western Ukraine.



In the town of Turka, Lvov region, the Right Sector seized the Church of Moscow Patriarchate: Police-backed Ukrainian thugs seize Orthodox Church building, injure priest� - YouTube

Also seizures took place in Ternopol, Rovno, Cherkassy regions.

A church in Ternopol region in the Ukraine seized by

In Cherkassy region of the Ukraine parishioners prevented seizure of a church / OrthoChristian.Com

A temple of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been seized by the

Orthodox church being seized near Kiev / OrthoChristian.Com

In Donetsk and Lugansk Ukrainian troops burnt tens of churches, like this beautiful wooden church:



And Sofia Kochmar, Catholic journalist from Lvov, cares about her Church in Crimea.
Click to expand...


All these are irrelevant because they have nothing to do with the oppressive Russian powers in Ukrainian Crimea.
 
Simpleχity;1064009141 said:
All violence against religion is wrong. But this thread is not about what goes on elsewhere.

It is about *Crimea* which is currently "administered" by *Russia*.

Your repeated deflections only serve to highlight your consternation and embarrassment at what is being revealed about Russian repressions in Crimea.
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Meh, you beat me to it.

If it is not ad hominem logical fallacy then it is deflection. If it is not deflection it is ad hominem logical fallacy.

Do you think these low moves are because they are feeling pressure or so?
 
DDD said:
All these are irrelevant because they have nothing to do with the oppressive Russian powers in Ukrainian Crimea.
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Crimeans, which talk in the documentary about Korsun-Shevchenko pogrom, have nothing to do with Crimea??????????????????

Every time when I read such your comments I think this is the highest point of your delusional hypocritical consience. But every time I'm wrong.
 
DDD said:
If it is not ad hominem logical fallacy then it is deflection. If it is not deflection it is ad hominem logical fallacy.
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Those are escape mechanisms to avoid owning the ugly truths.

DDD said:
Do you think these low moves are because they are feeling pressure or so?
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In this regard, there are typically two very different mindsets. One mindset honestly recognizes their nation's faults and sins, and strives to admit and rectify these shortcomings. The other mindset is born of ignoble nationalism which chronically yields abject denial and unwarranted chest thumping. Unfortunately, the Russian participants here embrace the latter ethos.
 
MrFirst said:
Empty propaganda, my dear friend. Because the deaths in the former Ukraine were before Crimea took decision on self-determination. Before Crimeans voted for leaving nationalistic, chauvinistic, fascist regime which came to power in the failed state through violence and blood.

The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

That's what the civil war started from. 100 people killed in Kiev in February. Then were people burnt alive in Odessa. Then were killed ones in Mariupol. Many, many deaths. Thousands. Who kills people in Donbas? Russians? No, Ukrainian army does. And there was the start point? Illegal seizer of power. Coup d'etat in Kiev. Encouraged and organized by the US embassy.

I suppose Geoffrey Pyatt has deserved to get the destiny of his collegue in Libya. That would be fair if one day a crazy crowd would drag the body of this b*stard like it happened in Benghazi once:

That would be fair.
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Did a Russian who has nothing other than state-run media on his TV just tell someone that their opinion is based on nothing but empty propaganda?

:lamo
 
MrFirst said:
Crimeans, which talk in the documentary about Korsun-Shevchenko pogrom, have nothing to do with Crimea??????????????????
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Those are Russians living in Ukrainian Crimea. I think the documentary is biased and projects Russian progom intentions.

MrFirst said:
Every time when I read such your comments I think this is the highest point of your delusional hypocritical consience. But every time I'm wrong.
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You will always be wrong while addressing me in person too.
 
Crime, Crimea and the Kremlin: Ties between Putin regime and organized crime

[video=youtube;lyrhcvbJ9uo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?lyrhcvbJ9uo[/video]
 
Simpleχity;1063928953 said:
A thread dedicated to news about the Ukrainian territory illegally annexed by Russia in March of 2014

Human Rights Worsen in Crimea, Report Says

Tatar Men Disappear In Crimea, And Families Fill With Dread

FIFA apologises for video showing Crimea as part of Russia
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Crimea is as part of Russia as Florida is part of the US, Florida was stolen from Spain, as Texas was stolen from Mexico, and Oklahoma from the Native Americans forced there from other areas stolen from them.

What's your point? boo hoo?
 
EU to tighten sanctions on Crimea in time for leaders summit: officials

Crimea should be utterly sequestered from all global interaction until it is returned to its rightful owner.

Russia says it has a right to put nuclear weapons in Crimea

This would be a violation of the 2010 START Treaty. The irony...

Via the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, Ukraine gave up her nuclear arsenal in exchange for absolute respect of her sovereignty and borders. Now one of the signatories of this document - Russia - which has forcefully violated Ukrainian sovereignty, threatens to once again place nuclear weapons on Ukrainian territory.
 
Yesterday, Kyiv suspended all train and bus services between Ukraine and Crimea due to security concerns. Passenger aircraft and cruise ships are prohibited to land/dock in Crimea under international sanctions. Yesterday also, Visa and Mastercard said their credit cards will no longer be active/viable in Crimea due to international sanctions.
 
Simpleχity;1064103807 said:
EU to tighten sanctions on Crimea in time for leaders summit: officials

Crimea should be utterly sequestered from all global interaction until it is returned to its rightful owner.

Russia says it has a right to put nuclear weapons in Crimea

This would be a violation of the 2010 START Treaty. The irony...

Via the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, Ukraine gave up her nuclear arsenal in exchange for absolute respect of her sovereignty and borders. Now one of the signatories of this document - Russia - which has forcefully violated Ukrainian sovereignty, threatens to once again place nuclear weapons on Ukrainian territory.
Click to expand...

I guess you missed this:

Crimea votes to leave Ukraine in secession referendum and join Russia - World - CBC News
 
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