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'Islamization of Europe a good thing'

German guy said:
Now I may be wrong, but that's how I perceive the situation:

The "islamization of Europe" is a myth. Advanced by chauvinistic fascist fringe nuts in Europe who just found this kind of xenophobia more fashionable than the classic old anti-Semitism. They even use the very same methods -- like taking extreme examples to brush all members of that religious group with one huge brush and ignoring all the successful examples of integration, making up fake statistic about alleged "birthrates" of Muslims "outbreeding" Europeans which couldn't be more absurd, and all that based on chauvinistic ethnic European nationalism ("a foreign body is intruding our sacred blood and soil").

Americans who are filled with prejudices against Europeans mistake this kind of European islamophobia for the same kind of liberal criticism of Muslim religiosity you often find in America and side with these European fascists, take all their BS statistics without the deserved grain of salt, keep parroting their propaganda and suddenly are surprised, but fail to admit it, when their nice far-right European bedfellows suddenly show their true face and side with Putin's Russia or anti-Semites.

Is that about right?
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About spot on, I reckon. Especially the bit I bolded above.
 
Barbara Lerner Spectre said:
"I think there is a resurgence of antisemitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive."
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"In the Polish city of Wroclaw, nationalists chanting “God, honor, and Fatherland” recently burned an orthodox Jew in effigy at an anti-immigrant demonstration in the Polish city of Wrocław. (Go to 3:30 for footage of the burning.) The twisted thinking apparently is that since international forces are seemingly flooding Poland with refugees, Jews must somehow be responsible."

Twisted? Considering what Spectre says above and what the rabbi in the OP says I'd say they've identified the problem with pinpoint accuracy.


https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/28/the-collision-course-in-syria/

(the burning is right at the end of the video, not at 3:30)
 
 
shanners said:
Sounds like yet another frothing-at-the-mouth wacko.
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Yes, it does.

If, as I do, you spend a goodly amount of time arguing that you cannot tarnish the entire Muslim community with the brush-stroke of radical, fundamentalist terrorism, then what would be the rationale for arguing any different in relation to the more extreme, fundamentalist end of Judaism. He clearly doesn't represent a major current of Jewish thinking, nor even just Israeli thinking, so why should we pay attention?

You clearly, and explicitly state that the world is subject to a massive conspiracy of Jewish interests, so nothing rational that anyone can say will persuade you of the truth. We'll just have to agree to leave you in your state of paranoid Judeophobia.
 
In Tower Hamlets, right next to my flat, there are Christmas trees, carolers, festive lights, nativity scenes, etc. I guess the most Muslim populated area in the UK hasn't been Islamised yet.
 
le bouffon said:
In Tower Hamlets, right next to my flat, there are Christmas trees, carolers, festive lights, nativity scenes, etc. I guess the most Muslim populated area in the UK hasn't been Islamised yet.
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Shhh, you're not meant to mention that multiculturalism can work.

Cool avatar btw. My hero!
 
le bouffon said:
In Tower Hamlets, right next to my flat, there are Christmas trees, carolers, festive lights, nativity scenes, etc. I guess the most Muslim populated area in the UK hasn't been Islamised yet.
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Surely you mean radicalized, as muslims not being islamised would be the most retarded statement I've ever seen since I registered this board.
 
Natan said:
Surely you mean radicalized, as muslims not being islamised would be the most retarded statement I've ever seen since I registered this board.
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Then you just ain't seen nuffin'
 
Anyway, seems like I'm retarded as I interpreted things wrongly. I read it as "most muslims in populated areas in the UK haven't been islamized yet" This insomnia business is getting to me. I should have known that just couldn't make sense. My apologies to le bouffon if that came over as offending, I'm dead wrong.
 
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I know we had this discussion before, but le bouffon's text was not edited after I quoted it. vBulletin doesn't work that way and you can only edit posts for 20 minutes. My text was edited so you quoted a different text, a prior version. What can NOT happen is after you quoting me and pressing post, me changing my text and then this changing automatically in your quote as well.

EDIT: Hey, where did your post go Chagos?
 
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Natan said:
Anyway, seems like I'm retarded as I interpreted things wrongly. I read it as "most muslims in populated areas in the UK haven't been islamized yet" This insomnia business is getting to me. I should have known that just couldn't make sense. My apologies to le bouffon if that came over as offending, I'm dead wrong.
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Kinda puts reading stuff that ain't there into new light.

shenanigans.jpg


Great site, unshown edits to the quoted post are nevertheless already in the response quote.
 
Chagos said:
Great site, unshown edits to the quoted post are nevertheless already in the response quote.
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Your browser doesn't update every edit that is made. So ofcourse by the time you hit quote, you may get a more recent edit, and by the time you press "post" there may be an even different text if editing continues. What cannot happen after you press "post", is that the quoted text in YOUR post changes along with even further edits.
 
Then I was replying to what I read correctly in the past. My fault resting in the oversight of not checking the quoted text in my reply window before sending.

That's a pretty bad system setting because a post opened in the quote window should remain uninterfered with until it's been sent. Any edit by original poster having meanwhile (between opening "reply with quote", adding response and sending) been made, easily cleared up afterwards by context alone.

The quote should show what the response is to (original text), even if the whole thing is sent 24 hours later.

I know what I read in our discourses of the past few days, simply overlooked that changes had already been transferred to my post.
 
Chagos said:
That's a pretty bad system setting because a post opened in the quote window should remain uninterfered with until it's been sent.
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You don't "open" a post in a quote window, you make a copy of the post at that specific time. Otherwise you could block the original poster from making edits for as long as you chose to write your quote, which may be completely if you take 20 minutes time. So the system works perfectly as intended.

It is just that due to very bad posting habits of some posters like me, who either do not use "preview post" or preview just once, and then post. Then it happens such a poster discovers errors, is not satisfied with the text, wants to rephrase, add some thing and delete some thing in a couple of edits.

Chagos said:
The quote should show what the response is to (original text), even if the whole thing is sent 24 hours later.
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The quote shows the version of the post that existed when you hit the quote button, bar additional changes you made:

Chagos said:
Hey, I never said this.
Click to expand...
 
Natan said:
You don't "open" a post in a quote window, you make a copy of the post at that specific time. Otherwise you could block the original poster from making edits for as long as you chose to write your quote, which may be completely if you take 20 minutes time. So the system works perfectly as intended.
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I disagree. The poster (the one quoted) can meanwhile edit his post as often as desired, that's no beef. Clearly once I post mine and the post of his (quoted) in my post shows as not matching the current (most recent) version, it's clearly not a problem. Clearly as in clear to readers that edits have meanwhile been made by original poster.

Anycase, with things running as they are, the onus is then clearly on me (or everyone else in similar position) to check the quote-tag wrapped text in their reply, seeing how it can change even at the moment of hitting the "reply with quote".

And if that's the case, that's simply stupid and something I've not come across elsewhere. The response should show the exact text in quote that is being responded to, any change that I (moi) make to it basically constituting a rule breach of sorts anyway (falsifying).

Otherwise we might just as well all fool around in the quote wrapping ourselves. As in
Chagos said:
Hey, I never said this, I said far worse and just wait til nobody's listening
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Well, no point in griping, I'll just not use the "reply with quote" function anymore and crap and paste the text I'm responding to. That should leave no more room for this. Or use it still but paste what I copy over what the window shows.

Just to cut out this tonteria.
 
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Chagos said:
Or use it still but paste what I copy over what the window shows.
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For the functionality you desire, this seems your best option. Personally I think it is best if the most recent edit appears the moment you hit "reply with quote".
 
Andalublue said:
He clearly doesn't represent a major current of Jewish thinking
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You don't realize that historically it is practically always these fanatics who gain the upper hand and end up pulling the entire community in their direction.

nor even just Israeli thinking
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That's where you're wrong. These fundamentalist and ultra-orthodox are not tiny fringe groups. They have a great deal of influence on Israeli politics, especially the Likud governments. The members of Gush Emunim constitute a significant percentage of the elite units of the Israeli army. Overall the religious parties represent about 25% of the Israeli electorate, a percentage which will only increase due to the high fertility of these groups - 10-15 children per woman, and with the state of Israeli politics and the increasing numbers of these religious groups it is unlikely that future governments can be formed without their participation. I suggest you read some Norman Zucker:

"One of the major successes of theopolitics has been the institutionalization of the Orthodox rabbinate within the state. The Orthodox rabbinate in Israel has been established as a monopoly - neither Reform nor Conservative rabbinic ordinations are recognized - and it is, in part, supported by the state. This monopoly and state support, in conjunction with the coercive tactics of the religious parties in the Knesset, has given the Orthodox rabbinate a good deal of power. It uses this power to further the observance of Orthodox norms, often violating the civil rights of the nonobservant Israeli ... Orthodox Judaism has become firmly established in Israel's armed forces. "

Norman L. Zucker, The Coming Crisis in Israel: Private Faith and Public Policy

And:

"Israel is already a semi-theocracy. The Israelis who were frightened by (Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman's) remarks and who love viewing their country as liberal, Western and secular are forgetting that our life here is more religious, traditional and halakhic than we are prepared to admit ...

"It begins, of course, with the fact of our presence here. Among other things, it is based on theological reasoning. Abraham the Patriarch was here, so we are, too. He bought the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, so we, too, are in Palestinian Hebron. People who are entirely secular also cite religious and biblical explanations for the connection between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. We can't even say whether Judaism is a religion or a nationality - and in any event, there is no other country in the Western world where religion has its holy iron grip on the state as it does in Israel ...

"Admit it. Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves."

Gideon Levy Let's Face the Facts, Israel Is a Semi-theocracy - Haaretz - Israeli News Source Haaretz.com

You clearly, and explicitly state that the world is subject to a massive conspiracy of Jewish interests, so nothing rational that anyone can say will persuade you of the truth. We'll just have to agree to leave you in your state of paranoid Judeophobia.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for someone to explain what I put in #17 of this thread, namely:

Considering that multiculturalism offers a host of problems with few benefits if any, and considering that if there's one thing that's characterized Jewish society over the centuries then it's its mono-cultural nature, why do Jews like Spectre feel they have to take a "leading role" in the promotion of multiculturalism in the West?
 
shanners said:
You don't realize that historically it is practically always these fanatics who gain the upper hand and end up pulling the entire community in their direction.



That's where you're wrong. These fundamentalist and ultra-orthodox are not tiny fringe groups. They have a great deal of influence on Israeli politics, especially the Likud governments. The members of Gush Emunim constitute a significant percentage of the elite units of the Israeli army. Overall the religious parties represent about 25% of the Israeli electorate, a percentage which will only increase due to the high fertility of these groups - 10-15 children per woman, and with the state of Israeli politics and the increasing numbers of these religious groups it is unlikely that future governments can be formed without their participation. I suggest you read some Norman Zucker:"One of the major successes of theopolitics has been the institutionalization of the Orthodox rabbinate within the state. The Orthodox rabbinate in Israel has been established as a monopoly - neither Reform nor Conservative rabbinic ordinations are recognized - and it is, in part, supported by the state. This monopoly and state support, in conjunction with the coercive tactics of the religious parties in the Knesset, has given the Orthodox rabbinate a good deal of power. It uses this power to further the observance of Orthodox norms, often violating the civil rights of the nonobservant Israeli ... Orthodox Judaism has become firmly established in Israel's armed forces. "
Click to expand...

The ultra-orthodox are the draft-dodgers, the ones who contribute least to Israel's military readiness. They always want religious exemptions from military duty.

Norman L. Zucker, The Coming Crisis in Israel: Private Faith and Public Policy

And:

"Israel is already a semi-theocracy. The Israelis who were frightened by (Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman's) remarks and who love viewing their country as liberal, Western and secular are forgetting that our life here is more religious, traditional and halakhic than we are prepared to admit ...

"It begins, of course, with the fact of our presence here. Among other things, it is based on theological reasoning. Abraham the Patriarch was here, so we are, too. He bought the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, so we, too, are in Palestinian Hebron. People who are entirely secular also cite religious and biblical explanations for the connection between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. We can't even say whether Judaism is a religion or a nationality - and in any event, there is no other country in the Western world where religion has its holy iron grip on the state as it does in Israel ...

"Admit it. Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves."

Gideon Levy Let's Face the Facts, Israel Is a Semi-theocracy - Haaretz - Israeli News Source Haaretz.com



I'm still waiting for someone to explain what I put in #17 of this thread, namely:

Considering that multiculturalism offers a host of problems with few benefits if any, and considering that if there's one thing that's characterized Jewish society over the centuries then it's its mono-cultural nature, why do Jews like Spectre feel they have to take a "leading role" in the promotion of multiculturalism in the West?
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Spectre?? WTF? You mean Illuminati, don't you? Elders of Zion?

I'm not a big fan of multiculturalism myself, but how do you see Jews in a "leading role" in this regard?

It seems to me that the multi-cultural Left are the worst Israel-bashers.
 
sanman said:
The ultra-orthodox are the draft-dodgers, the ones who contribute least to Israel's military readiness. They always want religious exemptions from military duty.
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They just don't want to do the dirty work yet are all too ready to preach to and "inspire" the troops. We saw this in Operation Cast Lead.

Spectre?? WTF? You mean Illuminati, don't you? Elders of Zion?

I'm not a big fan of multiculturalism myself, but how do you see Jews in a "leading role" in this regard?
Click to expand...

Did you actually read #17?
 
shanners said:
They just don't want to do the dirty work yet are all too ready to preach to and "inspire" the troops. We saw this in Operation Cast Lead.
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So they're not the elite forces, they're the stay-home-and-pray forces, unlike what you posted.


Did you actually read #17?
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Can you give me a link to your manifesto, man - I didn't bother to pick it up off the bestseller list.

Jews have experienced pogroms in Europe, and so naturally they'd feel inclined to make common cause with other ethnic groups in promoting pluralist tolerance. I don't see how that makes them Spectre, or whatever you compared them to.

As we can see in France, the rise in anti-semitism there is mainly due to the North African immigrant population.

Do you remember the terrorist attack which murdered this little girl?

_Toulouse_2172170b.jpg


Toulouse shooting: heartbreaking detail of attack that shocked France and Israel - Telegraph

Eight-year-old Myriam Monsonego clutched her satchel as the killer chased her through the school gates and into the courtyard. He pulled her towards him by her hair and raised a gun to shoot her.
The video footage appears to show that, at that moment, his gun jammed.
But determined to carry out his killing spree, he kept hold of the girl, changed weapons from what police identified as a 9-mm pistol to a .45 calibre weapon, and delivered a shot to her temple at point blank range.
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But aww, what the heck - let's just dismiss it as an extremist act and quickly move on, shall we?
 
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sanman said:
So they're not the elite forces, they're the stay-home-and-pray forces, unlike what you posted.
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You're splitting hairs.

Can you give me a link to your manifesto, man - I didn't bother to pick it up off the bestseller list.
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What part of in #17 of this thread do you not understand?

Jews have experienced pogroms in Europe, and so naturally they'd feel inclined to make common cause with other ethnic groups in promoting pluralist tolerance.
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So just because Jews have suffered in the past (of course we seldom if ever hear about the injustices and tyranny inflicted upon them by their own leadership: "one of the most totalitarian societies in the history of mankind" - Prof. Israel Shahak, describing Jewish society up until the late 18th century) we are expected to endure and tolerate the host of problems caused by multiculturalism?

I don't see how that makes them Spectre, or whatever you compared them to.
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I said Jews like Spectre. Is English your second language? Either that or you're seriously lacking in the comprehension department. It's clear as day that I'm talking about a Jew named Spectre.

As we can see in France, the rise in anti-semitism there is mainly due to the North African immigrant population.

Do you remember the terrorist attack which murdered this little girl?
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One case proves this?
 
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